Sibyl Marshal

F, #12721, d. after October 1250
FatherJohn Marshal of Lenton; per Burke's Peerage: "dau(?) of John Marshal, of Lenton"1
ReferenceGAV22 EDV21
Last Edited1 Jul 2006
     Sibyl Marshal married William (III) de Say Lord of West Greenwich, son of Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich; his 1st wife.2,1 Sibyl Marshal died after October 1250.2,1
     GAV-22 EDV-21.

Sibyl Marshal (an unknown value.)2

Family

William (III) de Say Lord of West Greenwich b. c 1212, d. b 12 Feb 1271/72
Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-2, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich1

M, #12723, b. circa 1155, d. before 26 August 1230
FatherGeoffrey (I) de Say1 b. b 1135, d. bt 1212 - 1214
MotherAlice De Chesney1,2
ReferenceGAV23 EDV22
Last Edited11 Nov 2006
     Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich was buried at Hospital of St. Mary, Dover, England.3 He was born circa 1155.3 He married Margery de Briwere, daughter of Sir William "The Elder" de Briwere Lord of Horsley and Beatrice De Vaux (De Valle), after 1225; his 2nd wife, her 3rd husband.3,4,1 Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich died before 26 August 1230 at Poitou, France.3,1 He and Margery de Briwere were divorced after 1255.3,1
     GAV-23 EDV-22.

Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich Geoffrey; b c 1155; in 1210(?) was in Ireland with KING JOHN's army, one of the barons (magnates rather than peers of Parl) opposed to JOHN and one of the 25 assigned to see that Magna Charta was observed, pilgrim to Holy Land 1219; m 1st Alice, dau(?) of John de Chesney and widow of Hugh de Periers; m 2nd in or after 1225 Margery (divorce 12-), sis of William Briwere and widow of (a) - de la Ferté and (b) Eudes de Dammartin (d 1225), and d in Poitou just before Aug 1230, leaving (presumably by his 1st w), (?)with a yr s (?)Geoffrey(?): William.1

Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich Volume 11, page 465:
GEOFFREY DE SAY I, br. and h. male, being 2nd s. of William DE SAY I and Beatrice, was b. probably not later than 1135,(k) and possibly earlier.
Note k:
His s. Geoffrey m. after the end of 1175 and before 1180; see text below. Geoffrey de Say I may be the Geoffrey de Say who attested a charter of his uncle Gilbert de Say in 1151 (Round, Cal. Docs., no 522).

It was Geoffrey himself, not his son, who married between 1175 and 1180 (see correction to p. 467 below). Therefore it seems likely that he was born much later than 1135, and perhaps even after 1144, the traditional date of his father's death.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467:
He [Geoffrey de Say (d. by 1214)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Ralph DE CAHAINES, and da. of Hugh MAMINOT(n).
Note n:
Confirmation of grant in 1168 by Walkelin Maminot to Bermondsey Abbey of the advowson of the church of Birling and of a similar grant by Geoffrey de Say, by "Galfridus de Say filius Galfridi de Say et Alicie de Cheinnei uxoris sue"; followed by confirmation by William de Say, son of Geoffrey de Say, son of Geoffrey (Thorpe, Reg. Roff., p. 169; B.M. MS. Cott. Claud. A viii, f. 116d/169; Dugdale, Mon., vol. v, p. 89). Grant by Geoffrey de Say son of Alice de Chetnay of land in Edmonton, temp. Ric. I (Cat. Anc. Deeds, no. A2035). After about 1200 the Say barony consisted almost wholly of fees formerly held by Alice's nephew, Walkelin Maminot.

The correct identity of Geoffrey's wife is as given by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117: Alice (widow of Hugh de Periers, who d. s.p. about Dec. 1175), da. and coh. of John de Chesney. John de Chesney's mother appears to have been Alice, daughter of Hugh Maminot and in her issue heir of Hugh's grandson Walkelin (d. c. 1190), son of Walkelin. Geoffrey and Alice were married by 1180, and she survived at least until 1185. Unfortunately, the account of Say in volume 11 assumes that it was Geoffrey's son of the same name who married Alice de Chesney, and bases its chronology on the date of this marriage. Therefore, much of the chronology for Geoffrey and his son should probably be revised later.

Evidence from pipe rolls and charters, showing that Alice "de Caineto", widow of Hugh de Periers, remarried to a Geoffrey de Say by 1180, was printed by Eyton in the 19th century [Antiquities of Shropshire, vol. 3, pp. 331-333]. It is clear that the Geoffrey in question was Geoffrey I (d. by 1214) from the following:

1. On 1 January "1198", Geoffrey de Say and his son Geoffrey made a grant to the hospital of Drincourt, providing for prayers for the soul of Alice "de Kaisneio", the mother of the younger Geoffrey [Cal. Docs France, vol. 1, no 280]. Clearly these two Geoffreys are the same father and son who appear in two charters dated 1196-1198 concerning the manor of Rickling (Essex), the father describing himself as Geoffrey the son of William de Say [Cat. Anct Deeds, vol. 2, C2287; vol. 3, C3188].
2. A sequence of Bermondsey charters shows an original grant by Walkelin Maminot, successively confirmed by Geoffrey de Say, later by his son Geoffrey de Say - describing himself as the son of Geoffrey de Say and of Alice "de Chemunei" - and eventually by William de Say - mentioning his wife Sibyl and referring to the gifts of his father Geoffrey and his grandfather Geoffrey [J. Thorpe, Registrum Roffense, p. 169 (1769), citing British Library Cotton MS Claudius A VIII, no 14].

Round established a century ago that Alice was a daughter and coheir of John de Chesney [Genealogist, new series, vol. 18, p. 9 (1902), citing Dugdale's comments based on the cartulary of Coxford (Baronage, vol. 1, pp. 511, 614)]. John de Chesney was the son of Ralph de Chesney, and the grandson of another Ralph. The cartulary of Merton Priory records that Hugh Maminot gave the manor of Petham (Kent) to Ralph de Chesney in marriage with his daughter Alice [L. F. Salzman, Sussex Arch. Coll., vol. 65, pp. 21, 22 (1924), citing British Library Cotton MS Cleopatra C VI, no 69]. Chronologically, this would be John's father rather than his grandfather. (As Salzman points out, according to a Lewes manuscript, Ralph was predeceased by a wife named Emma - Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, vol. 5, p. 14 (1817-30 edn) - so it is possible that the Merton cartulary is wrong in calling Hugh Maminot's daughter Alice - Keats-Rohan (Domesday Descendants, p. 369) apparently takes this view.)

Evidently Alice de Chesney survived at least until 1185, as she and Geoffrey made a gift to Brockley (later Bayham Abbey) with the assent of Gilbert, bishop of Rochester, who did not succeed until that year [J. Thorpe, op. cit., p. 378, citing British Library Cotton MS Otho A II, ff. 36, 37].

[Kevan L. Barton pointed out the contradiction between the identity of Geoffrey's wife given in the above account, and that given in volume 5, in November 2002. Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467, note o (continued on page 468):
Between 10 Aug. 1197 and 8 Mar. 1198 Geoffrey de Say II executed a charter confirming his father's grant [of the manor of Rickling to Geoffrey II's younger brother Geoffrey] (Idem, vol. ii, no. C2287). The confirmation is printed in full in Genealogist, N.S., vol. xxxiv, p. 181, and shows that Geoffrey II had an elder br. William, who was living at or after the birth of Alice de Vere's s. Geoffrey. There seems to be no evidence of the date of William's death, except that it was before 1 Jan. 1198 (?1198/9) (Round, Cal. Docs., no.280).

The confirmation referred to explicitly states that Geoffrey II's elder brother William was dead, so he must have died before the latest possible date of that document, namely 8 March 1197/8 (as stated by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117).

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 468:
GEOFFREY DE SAY II, 2nd but 1st surv. s. and h. by 1st wife, was b. probably about 1155. In 1180 in the account of the farm of the Vicomté of Arques he is acquitted in respect of a liability of 10s "for the land of Geoffrey de Sai which he had with the wife of Hugh de Periers."(e) In the same year he was amerced at the Forest Assize in respect of Hudwic' & Dodinton' (Ditton Priors, Salop); and, again in 1180, with the consent of his wife, he delivered to the prior of Wenlock his manor of Ditton Priors, which was her dower from Hugh de Periers.(f) In 1190 Michael Belet accounted for 100li to have right against him of the inheritance of his wife and to have his office.(g) In 1198 he was bailiff of Arques.(h)
Note e:
Stapleton, Mag. Rot. Scacc. Norm., vol. i, pp. cxxiv, 90.
Note f:
Eyton, Shropshire, vol. iii, p. 332.
Note g:
Pipe Roll, 2 Ric. I, p. 102. Michael had m. Emma, sister of Alice de Chesney; see p. 470, note "f" below.
Note h:
Stapleton, op. cit., vol. ii, p. cxxix. It has been assumed that this entry and the entries as to lands in Normandy which follow relate to Geoffrey II. If so, it was probably the same Geoffrey who in 1184 owed 33li 12s for 4 measures of wheat which he had for provisioning the castle of Gisors (D'Anisy, Mém. de la Soc. des Antiquaires de Normandie, vol. viii, p. 361).

As Geoffrey was a younger son of parents who were married after 1175, he was probably born around 1180 (see correction to p. 467 above). The references above from the period 1180-1190, and presumably also the one from 1198, must relate to his father, Geoffrey I. Michael Belet's wife Emma was the sister of Geoffrey I's wife.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 470:
He [Geoffrey de Say II (d. 1230)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Hugh DE PERIERS, and h. and possibly da. of John DE CHESNEY. He m., 2ndly, Margery, widow of (i) ... DE LA FERTÉ, (ii) Eudes DE DAMMARTIN (d. 1225), sis. and coh. of Will. BRIWERRE, by whom he was divorced.

Alice de Chesney was the wife of Geoffrey I de Say, not Geoffrey II (see correction to p. 467 above). The identity of Geoffrey II's first wife, the mother of his son and heir William, is unknown. Geoffrey was married to his second wife Margery by November 1225 [the quindene of St Martin, Michaelmas Term 9-10 Henry III; Curia Regis Rolls, vol. 12, pp. 295, 302].

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]2 He was Lord of West Greenwich at West Greenwich, Kent, England.3

Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich Magna Carta Surety in 1215.3

Geoffrey (II) de Say Lord of West Greenwich pilgrim to the Holy Land in 1219.1

Family 1

Child

Family 2

Margery de Briwere b. 1166

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1982] Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy, online http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/say.shtml
    Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage, Volume 11: Say. Hereinafter cited as Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy.
  3. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  4. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 43, de BRIWERE 1:vi. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).

Alice De Chesney1

F, #12724
FatherJohn De Chesney1
MotherAlice Maminot
ReferenceGAV24 EDV22
Last Edited9 Mar 2008
     Alice De Chesney married Hugh de Periers; her 1st husband.2,1 Alice De Chesney married Geoffrey (I) de Say, son of William I de Say and Beatrice de Mandeville, between 1175 and 1180; his 1st wife.3,1,4
     GAV-24 EDV-22.

Alice De Chesney Volume 11, page 465:
GEOFFREY DE SAY I, br. and h. male, being 2nd s. of William DE SAY I and Beatrice, was b. probably not later than 1135,(k) and possibly earlier.
Note k:
His s. Geoffrey m. after the end of 1175 and before 1180; see text below. Geoffrey de Say I may be the Geoffrey de Say who attested a charter of his uncle Gilbert de Say in 1151 (Round, Cal. Docs., no 522).

It was Geoffrey himself, not his son, who married between 1175 and 1180 (see correction to p. 467 below). Therefore it seems likely that he was born much later than 1135, and perhaps even after 1144, the traditional date of his father's death.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467:
He [Geoffrey de Say (d. by 1214)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Ralph DE CAHAINES, and da. of Hugh MAMINOT(n).
Note n:
Confirmation of grant in 1168 by Walkelin Maminot to Bermondsey Abbey of the advowson of the church of Birling and of a similar grant by Geoffrey de Say, by "Galfridus de Say filius Galfridi de Say et Alicie de Cheinnei uxoris sue"; followed by confirmation by William de Say, son of Geoffrey de Say, son of Geoffrey (Thorpe, Reg. Roff., p. 169; B.M. MS. Cott. Claud. A viii, f. 116d/169; Dugdale, Mon., vol. v, p. 89). Grant by Geoffrey de Say son of Alice de Chetnay of land in Edmonton, temp. Ric. I (Cat. Anc. Deeds, no. A2035). After about 1200 the Say barony consisted almost wholly of fees formerly held by Alice's nephew, Walkelin Maminot.

The correct identity of Geoffrey's wife is as given by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117: Alice (widow of Hugh de Periers, who d. s.p. about Dec. 1175), da. and coh. of John de Chesney. John de Chesney's mother appears to have been Alice, daughter of Hugh Maminot and in her issue heir of Hugh's grandson Walkelin (d. c. 1190), son of Walkelin. Geoffrey and Alice were married by 1180, and she survived at least until 1185. Unfortunately, the account of Say in volume 11 assumes that it was Geoffrey's son of the same name who married Alice de Chesney, and bases its chronology on the date of this marriage. Therefore, much of the chronology for Geoffrey and his son should probably be revised later.

Evidence from pipe rolls and charters, showing that Alice "de Caineto", widow of Hugh de Periers, remarried to a Geoffrey de Say by 1180, was printed by Eyton in the 19th century [Antiquities of Shropshire, vol. 3, pp. 331-333]. It is clear that the Geoffrey in question was Geoffrey I (d. by 1214) from the following:

1. On 1 January "1198", Geoffrey de Say and his son Geoffrey made a grant to the hospital of Drincourt, providing for prayers for the soul of Alice "de Kaisneio", the mother of the younger Geoffrey [Cal. Docs France, vol. 1, no 280]. Clearly these two Geoffreys are the same father and son who appear in two charters dated 1196-1198 concerning the manor of Rickling (Essex), the father describing himself as Geoffrey the son of William de Say [Cat. Anct Deeds, vol. 2, C2287; vol. 3, C3188].
2. A sequence of Bermondsey charters shows an original grant by Walkelin Maminot, successively confirmed by Geoffrey de Say, later by his son Geoffrey de Say - describing himself as the son of Geoffrey de Say and of Alice "de Chemunei" - and eventually by William de Say - mentioning his wife Sibyl and referring to the gifts of his father Geoffrey and his grandfather Geoffrey [J. Thorpe, Registrum Roffense, p. 169 (1769), citing British Library Cotton MS Claudius A VIII, no 14].

Round established a century ago that Alice was a daughter and coheir of John de Chesney [Genealogist, new series, vol. 18, p. 9 (1902), citing Dugdale's comments based on the cartulary of Coxford (Baronage, vol. 1, pp. 511, 614)]. John de Chesney was the son of Ralph de Chesney, and the grandson of another Ralph. The cartulary of Merton Priory records that Hugh Maminot gave the manor of Petham (Kent) to Ralph de Chesney in marriage with his daughter Alice [L. F. Salzman, Sussex Arch. Coll., vol. 65, pp. 21, 22 (1924), citing British Library Cotton MS Cleopatra C VI, no 69]. Chronologically, this would be John's father rather than his grandfather. (As Salzman points out, according to a Lewes manuscript, Ralph was predeceased by a wife named Emma - Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, vol. 5, p. 14 (1817-30 edn) - so it is possible that the Merton cartulary is wrong in calling Hugh Maminot's daughter Alice - Keats-Rohan (Domesday Descendants, p. 369) apparently takes this view.)

Evidently Alice de Chesney survived at least until 1185, as she and Geoffrey made a gift to Brockley (later Bayham Abbey) with the assent of Gilbert, bishop of Rochester, who did not succeed until that year [J. Thorpe, op. cit., p. 378, citing British Library Cotton MS Otho A II, ff. 36, 37].

[Kevan L. Barton pointed out the contradiction between the identity of Geoffrey's wife given in the above account, and that given in volume 5, in November 2002. Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467, note o (continued on page 468):
Between 10 Aug. 1197 and 8 Mar. 1198 Geoffrey de Say II executed a charter confirming his father's grant [of the manor of Rickling to Geoffrey II's younger brother Geoffrey] (Idem, vol. ii, no. C2287). The confirmation is printed in full in Genealogist, N.S., vol. xxxiv, p. 181, and shows that Geoffrey II had an elder br. William, who was living at or after the birth of Alice de Vere's s. Geoffrey. There seems to be no evidence of the date of William's death, except that it was before 1 Jan. 1198 (?1198/9) (Round, Cal. Docs., no.280).

The confirmation referred to explicitly states that Geoffrey II's elder brother William was dead, so he must have died before the latest possible date of that document, namely 8 March 1197/8 (as stated by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117).

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 468:
GEOFFREY DE SAY II, 2nd but 1st surv. s. and h. by 1st wife, was b. probably about 1155. In 1180 in the account of the farm of the Vicomté of Arques he is acquitted in respect of a liability of 10s "for the land of Geoffrey de Sai which he had with the wife of Hugh de Periers."(e) In the same year he was amerced at the Forest Assize in respect of Hudwic' & Dodinton' (Ditton Priors, Salop); and, again in 1180, with the consent of his wife, he delivered to the prior of Wenlock his manor of Ditton Priors, which was her dower from Hugh de Periers.(f) In 1190 Michael Belet accounted for 100li to have right against him of the inheritance of his wife and to have his office.(g) In 1198 he was bailiff of Arques.(h)
Note e:
Stapleton, Mag. Rot. Scacc. Norm., vol. i, pp. cxxiv, 90.
Note f:
Eyton, Shropshire, vol. iii, p. 332.
Note g:
Pipe Roll, 2 Ric. I, p. 102. Michael had m. Emma, sister of Alice de Chesney; see p. 470, note "f" below.
Note h:
Stapleton, op. cit., vol. ii, p. cxxix. It has been assumed that this entry and the entries as to lands in Normandy which follow relate to Geoffrey II. If so, it was probably the same Geoffrey who in 1184 owed 33li 12s for 4 measures of wheat which he had for provisioning the castle of Gisors (D'Anisy, Mém. de la Soc. des Antiquaires de Normandie, vol. viii, p. 361).

As Geoffrey was a younger son of parents who were married after 1175, he was probably born around 1180 (see correction to p. 467 above). The references above from the period 1180-1190, and presumably also the one from 1198, must relate to his father, Geoffrey I. Michael Belet's wife Emma was the sister of Geoffrey I's wife.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 470:
He [Geoffrey de Say II (d. 1230)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Hugh DE PERIERS, and h. and possibly da. of John DE CHESNEY. He m., 2ndly, Margery, widow of (i) ... DE LA FERTÉ, (ii) Eudes DE DAMMARTIN (d. 1225), sis. and coh. of Will. BRIWERRE, by whom he was divorced.

Alice de Chesney was the wife of Geoffrey I de Say, not Geoffrey II (see correction to p. 467 above). The identity of Geoffrey II's first wife, the mother of his son and heir William, is unknown. Geoffrey was married to his second wife Margery by November 1225 [the quindene of St Martin, Michaelmas Term 9-10 Henry III; Curia Regis Rolls, vol. 12, pp. 295, 302].

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]4

Alice De Chesney Weis MCS 16A-1.5

Family 1

Hugh de Periers

Family 2

Geoffrey (I) de Say b. b 1135, d. bt 1212 - 1214
Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 252-253, de VERE of Oxford 3:v. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  3. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  4. [S1982] Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy, online http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/say.shtml
    Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage, Volume 11: Say. Hereinafter cited as Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy.
  5. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 16A-1, p. 17: "...heiress (pos. dau.) of John de Chesney."

John De Chesney

M, #12725
ReferenceGAV24 EDV23
Last Edited11 Nov 2006
     John De Chesney married Alice Maminot, daughter of Hugh Maminot.1
     GAV-24 EDV-23.

John De Chesney (an unknown value.)2

Citations

  1. [S1982] Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy, online http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/say.shtml
    Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage, Volume 11: Say. Hereinafter cited as Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  3. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Joan Rogers1

F, #12726
FatherSir John Rogers of Bryanston, Dorset1
MotherElizabeth Courtenay1
Last Edited7 Sep 2004

Family

Richard la Zouche 9th Lord Zouche of Haryngworth b. c 1510, d. 22 Jul 1552
Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Zouche Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Rohan 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/rohan/rohan2.html

Sir John Rogers of Bryanston, Dorset1

M, #12727
Last Edited13 Nov 2002
     Sir John Rogers of Bryanston, Dorset married Elizabeth Courtenay, daughter of Sir William de Courtenay Knt., of Powderham Castle, Devonshire and Margaret/Mary Bonville.1
     Sir John Rogers of Bryanston, Dorset lived at Bryanston, Dorsetshire, England.1

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Zouche Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Eudes (Eudo) de Dammartin

M, #12728, d. 1225
Last Edited28 Dec 2002
     Eudes (Eudo) de Dammartin married Margery de Briwere, daughter of Sir William "The Elder" de Briwere Lord of Horsley and Beatrice De Vaux (De Valle); her 2nd husband.1,2,3 Eudes (Eudo) de Dammartin died in 1225.1,3

Family

Margery de Briwere b. 1166

Citations

  1. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  2. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 43, de BRIWERE 1:vi. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  3. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Geoffrey (I) de Say1

M, #12729, b. before 1135, d. between 1212 and 1214
FatherWilliam I de Say b. 1123, d. Aug 1144
MotherBeatrice de Mandeville2 b. c 1100, d. b 1197
ReferenceGAV24 EDV23
Last Edited11 Nov 2006
     Geoffrey (I) de Say married Alice/Adeliza de Vere, daughter of Aubrey III de Vere 1st Earl of Oxford, 1st Earl of Essex and Agnes (?) of Essex; his 2nd wife.3,2 Geoffrey (I) de Say was born before 1135; Notes on Medieval Genealogy says "...Therefore it seems likely that he was born much later than 1135, and perhaps even after 1144, the traditional date of his father's death."1,4 He married Alice De Chesney, daughter of John De Chesney and Alice Maminot, between 1175 and 1180; his 1st wife.5,1,4 Geoffrey (I) de Say died between 1212 and 1214.1
     GAV-24 EDV-23.

Geoffrey (I) de Say Volume 11, page 465:
GEOFFREY DE SAY I, br. and h. male, being 2nd s. of William DE SAY I and Beatrice, was b. probably not later than 1135,(k) and possibly earlier.
Note k:
His s. Geoffrey m. after the end of 1175 and before 1180; see text below. Geoffrey de Say I may be the Geoffrey de Say who attested a charter of his uncle Gilbert de Say in 1151 (Round, Cal. Docs., no 522).

It was Geoffrey himself, not his son, who married between 1175 and 1180 (see correction to p. 467 below). Therefore it seems likely that he was born much later than 1135, and perhaps even after 1144, the traditional date of his father's death.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467:
He [Geoffrey de Say (d. by 1214)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Ralph DE CAHAINES, and da. of Hugh MAMINOT(n).
Note n:
Confirmation of grant in 1168 by Walkelin Maminot to Bermondsey Abbey of the advowson of the church of Birling and of a similar grant by Geoffrey de Say, by "Galfridus de Say filius Galfridi de Say et Alicie de Cheinnei uxoris sue"; followed by confirmation by William de Say, son of Geoffrey de Say, son of Geoffrey (Thorpe, Reg. Roff., p. 169; B.M. MS. Cott. Claud. A viii, f. 116d/169; Dugdale, Mon., vol. v, p. 89). Grant by Geoffrey de Say son of Alice de Chetnay of land in Edmonton, temp. Ric. I (Cat. Anc. Deeds, no. A2035). After about 1200 the Say barony consisted almost wholly of fees formerly held by Alice's nephew, Walkelin Maminot.

The correct identity of Geoffrey's wife is as given by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117: Alice (widow of Hugh de Periers, who d. s.p. about Dec. 1175), da. and coh. of John de Chesney. John de Chesney's mother appears to have been Alice, daughter of Hugh Maminot and in her issue heir of Hugh's grandson Walkelin (d. c. 1190), son of Walkelin. Geoffrey and Alice were married by 1180, and she survived at least until 1185. Unfortunately, the account of Say in volume 11 assumes that it was Geoffrey's son of the same name who married Alice de Chesney, and bases its chronology on the date of this marriage. Therefore, much of the chronology for Geoffrey and his son should probably be revised later.

Evidence from pipe rolls and charters, showing that Alice "de Caineto", widow of Hugh de Periers, remarried to a Geoffrey de Say by 1180, was printed by Eyton in the 19th century [Antiquities of Shropshire, vol. 3, pp. 331-333]. It is clear that the Geoffrey in question was Geoffrey I (d. by 1214) from the following:

1. On 1 January "1198", Geoffrey de Say and his son Geoffrey made a grant to the hospital of Drincourt, providing for prayers for the soul of Alice "de Kaisneio", the mother of the younger Geoffrey [Cal. Docs France, vol. 1, no 280]. Clearly these two Geoffreys are the same father and son who appear in two charters dated 1196-1198 concerning the manor of Rickling (Essex), the father describing himself as Geoffrey the son of William de Say [Cat. Anct Deeds, vol. 2, C2287; vol. 3, C3188].
2. A sequence of Bermondsey charters shows an original grant by Walkelin Maminot, successively confirmed by Geoffrey de Say, later by his son Geoffrey de Say - describing himself as the son of Geoffrey de Say and of Alice "de Chemunei" - and eventually by William de Say - mentioning his wife Sibyl and referring to the gifts of his father Geoffrey and his grandfather Geoffrey [J. Thorpe, Registrum Roffense, p. 169 (1769), citing British Library Cotton MS Claudius A VIII, no 14].

Round established a century ago that Alice was a daughter and coheir of John de Chesney [Genealogist, new series, vol. 18, p. 9 (1902), citing Dugdale's comments based on the cartulary of Coxford (Baronage, vol. 1, pp. 511, 614)]. John de Chesney was the son of Ralph de Chesney, and the grandson of another Ralph. The cartulary of Merton Priory records that Hugh Maminot gave the manor of Petham (Kent) to Ralph de Chesney in marriage with his daughter Alice [L. F. Salzman, Sussex Arch. Coll., vol. 65, pp. 21, 22 (1924), citing British Library Cotton MS Cleopatra C VI, no 69]. Chronologically, this would be John's father rather than his grandfather. (As Salzman points out, according to a Lewes manuscript, Ralph was predeceased by a wife named Emma - Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, vol. 5, p. 14 (1817-30 edn) - so it is possible that the Merton cartulary is wrong in calling Hugh Maminot's daughter Alice - Keats-Rohan (Domesday Descendants, p. 369) apparently takes this view.)

Evidently Alice de Chesney survived at least until 1185, as she and Geoffrey made a gift to Brockley (later Bayham Abbey) with the assent of Gilbert, bishop of Rochester, who did not succeed until that year [J. Thorpe, op. cit., p. 378, citing British Library Cotton MS Otho A II, ff. 36, 37].

[Kevan L. Barton pointed out the contradiction between the identity of Geoffrey's wife given in the above account, and that given in volume 5, in November 2002. Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 467, note o (continued on page 468):
Between 10 Aug. 1197 and 8 Mar. 1198 Geoffrey de Say II executed a charter confirming his father's grant [of the manor of Rickling to Geoffrey II's younger brother Geoffrey] (Idem, vol. ii, no. C2287). The confirmation is printed in full in Genealogist, N.S., vol. xxxiv, p. 181, and shows that Geoffrey II had an elder br. William, who was living at or after the birth of Alice de Vere's s. Geoffrey. There seems to be no evidence of the date of William's death, except that it was before 1 Jan. 1198 (?1198/9) (Round, Cal. Docs., no.280).

The confirmation referred to explicitly states that Geoffrey II's elder brother William was dead, so he must have died before the latest possible date of that document, namely 8 March 1197/8 (as stated by Complete Peerage, vol. 5, chart before p. 117).

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 468:
GEOFFREY DE SAY II, 2nd but 1st surv. s. and h. by 1st wife, was b. probably about 1155. In 1180 in the account of the farm of the Vicomté of Arques he is acquitted in respect of a liability of 10s "for the land of Geoffrey de Sai which he had with the wife of Hugh de Periers."(e) In the same year he was amerced at the Forest Assize in respect of Hudwic' & Dodinton' (Ditton Priors, Salop); and, again in 1180, with the consent of his wife, he delivered to the prior of Wenlock his manor of Ditton Priors, which was her dower from Hugh de Periers.(f) In 1190 Michael Belet accounted for 100li to have right against him of the inheritance of his wife and to have his office.(g) In 1198 he was bailiff of Arques.(h)
Note e:
Stapleton, Mag. Rot. Scacc. Norm., vol. i, pp. cxxiv, 90.
Note f:
Eyton, Shropshire, vol. iii, p. 332.
Note g:
Pipe Roll, 2 Ric. I, p. 102. Michael had m. Emma, sister of Alice de Chesney; see p. 470, note "f" below.
Note h:
Stapleton, op. cit., vol. ii, p. cxxix. It has been assumed that this entry and the entries as to lands in Normandy which follow relate to Geoffrey II. If so, it was probably the same Geoffrey who in 1184 owed 33li 12s for 4 measures of wheat which he had for provisioning the castle of Gisors (D'Anisy, Mém. de la Soc. des Antiquaires de Normandie, vol. viii, p. 361).

As Geoffrey was a younger son of parents who were married after 1175, he was probably born around 1180 (see correction to p. 467 above). The references above from the period 1180-1190, and presumably also the one from 1198, must relate to his father, Geoffrey I. Michael Belet's wife Emma was the sister of Geoffrey I's wife.

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]

Volume 11, page 470:
He [Geoffrey de Say II (d. 1230)] m., 1stly, Alice, widow of Hugh DE PERIERS, and h. and possibly da. of John DE CHESNEY. He m., 2ndly, Margery, widow of (i) ... DE LA FERTÉ, (ii) Eudes DE DAMMARTIN (d. 1225), sis. and coh. of Will. BRIWERRE, by whom he was divorced.

Alice de Chesney was the wife of Geoffrey I de Say, not Geoffrey II (see correction to p. 467 above). The identity of Geoffrey II's first wife, the mother of his son and heir William, is unknown. Geoffrey was married to his second wife Margery by November 1225 [the quindene of St Martin, Michaelmas Term 9-10 Henry III; Curia Regis Rolls, vol. 12, pp. 295, 302].

[Item last updated: 11 February 2003.]4

Geoffrey (I) de Say Geoffrey; b probably by 1135; involved in financial transactions and law suits against his cousin and n by marriage Geoffrey fitz Piers to gain the lands of the Mandeville Earls of Essex; m 1st Alice, dau of Hugh Maminot and widow of Ralph de Cahaines; m 2nd Alice or Adeliza (b after 1163; d in or after 1214), dau of 1st Earl of Oxford (see SAINT ALBANS, D) by his 3rd w Agnes, and d between 1212 and 1214, having by his 1st w had, with an est s (William, d by 1 Jan 1198/9?) and a yst (Ingram, in Ireland with his bro Geoffrey):

1b Geoffrey.1

Geoffrey (I) de Say Weis MCS 16A-1.5

Family 1

Alice/Adeliza de Vere b. a 1163, d. c 1214

Family 2

Alice Maminot
Children

Family 3

Alice De Chesney
Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I07667
  3. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 252-253, de VERE of Oxford 3:v. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  4. [S1982] Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy, online http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/say.shtml
    Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage, Volume 11: Say. Hereinafter cited as Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy.
  5. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

William I de Say1,2

M, #12730, b. 1123, d. August 1144
FatherGeoffrey De Say3 b. 1094
MotherHawise De Clare3 b. 1099
ReferenceGAV25 EDV24
Last Edited9 Apr 2004
     William I de Say married Beatrice de Mandeville, daughter of William de Mandeville and Margaret Rie.4,1,5,2 William I de Say was born in 1123 at Normandy, France.3 He died in August 1144 at Burwell Castle, Cambridgeshire, England; slain at siege of Burwell Castle along with his bro-in-law 1st Earl of Essex.6,1,2
     William I de Say WILLIAM de SAY; granted his (probably dead) f's lands in a charter of the EMPRESS MAUD between Christmas 1141 and June 1142; joined his bro-in-law Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex of the 1140 cr (see ESSEX, E, preliminary remarks), in rebellion against STEPHEN 1144; m Beatrice (d 19 April in 1197 or some year before it), dau of William de Mandeville, sis of 1st Earl of Essex and divorced w of Hugh Talebot, and was allegedly k in an attack on Burwell Castle, Cambs, along with his bro-in-law 1st Earl of Essex Aug 1144, though he may well have d later.1 GAV-25 EDV-24 GKJ-24.

William I de Say William died during the siege of Burnwell Castle.3 William I de Say was also known as William De Saye.3

William I de Say (an unknown value.)7

William I de Say Leo van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 117.2

Family

Beatrice de Mandeville b. c 1100, d. b 1197
Children

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Say: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177853&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001.
  4. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 14, de BEAUCHAMP 2:ii. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  5. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrice de Mandeville: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177854&tree=LEO
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001), p. 145-146 de MANDEVILLE 2:ii.
  7. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16A-1, p. 17. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  8. [S1217] e-mail address, updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I03510
  9. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Say, of Kimbolton: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177855&tree=LEO

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter1,2

M, #12731, b. 29 March 1396, d. 5 August 1447
FatherSir John de Holand Knt., KG, 1st Duke of Exeter2 b. a 1350, d. c 10 Jan 1399
MotherLady Elizabeth (?) of Lancaster (of Gaunt), LG2 b. b 21 Feb 1363, d. 24 Nov 1425
ReferenceGAV14 EDV16
Last Edited30 Dec 2012
     Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter was born on 29 March 1396 at Bartington, Devonshire, England.3,2 He married Anne Stafford, daughter of Edmund de Stafford KG, KB, 5th Earl of Stafford and Anne (?) of Gloucester, Countess of Buckingham, Hereford and Northampton, before 6 March 1427; his 1st wife; her 2nd husband.4,5,6,7,8 Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter married Brites/Beatriz (?) of Portugal, daughter of Joao I "the False" (?) King of Portugal and Inez Perez Esteves, between 20 January 1432 and 1433; date of license; her 2nd husband; his 2nd wife.6,9 Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter married Lady Anne Montagu, daughter of John de Montagu Knt., KG, 3rd Earl of Salisbury, Lord Montagu, Lord Monthermer and Maude Fraunceys, after 1433; his 3rd wife; her 3rd husband.6,10 Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter died on 5 August 1447 at age 51.1,3,6,10 He was buried after 5 August 1447 at Church of St. Catherine-by-the-Tower, London, England.3

His estate was probated on 16 February 1448.6
     Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter John Holland, 13th Earl of Huntingdon (1416-1447); Knight of the Garter (1415); Admiral of England (1435); Governor of Aquitaine (1439); (restored) Duke of Exeter (1443-1447). An important figure in the later stages of the Hundred Years War, John Holland fought for Henry V with distinction in France: at Agincourt in 1415 and in command of a fleet against the Genoese off Harfleur in 1417. He took part in the sieges of Caen and Rouen, distinguished himself again at Pontoise (1419) and won a victory at Fresney (1420). He was captured by the Dauphinist in 1421, and ransomed in 1425. He represented England at the conference of Arras in 1435, which reconciled Charles VII of France and Philip the Good, Duke of Burgandy, and commanded an expedition to relieve Guisnes in 1438. In 1416, John Holland was restored as Earl of Huntingdon, than restored in blood, as heir to his father and brother in the 4th year of Henry V. The next year he was made general of all the men at arms and archers at which time employed in the king's fleet at sea, in which capacity he assisted at the siege of Caen. In 1420 he was in the great fight against the French who came to raise the siege of Fresney, wherein 5,000 were slain and 600 made prisoner. In 1443 his dukedom of Exeter was restored.1

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter Staley cites: CP V: 195-200, 205-11, XIV: 311-312, I:245.3 GAV-14 EDV-16.

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter (an unknown value.)11

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter lived at Northamptonshire, England.11

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter at the siege of Harfleur in 1415 at Siege of Harfleur, Harfleur, Normandy, France (now).6

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter (an unknown value) in 1415 at Battle of Agincourt, Agincourt, France (now).6

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter taken prisoner in 1421 at Battle of Beaugé, Anjou, France.6

Sir John de Holand Knt., KG, Earl of Huntingdon, 2nd Duke of Exeter left a will on 16 July 1447.6

Family 1

Anne Stafford b. c 1406, d. bt 20 Sep 1432 - 24 Sep 1432
Children

Family 2

Brites/Beatriz (?) of Portugal b. c 1386, d. 23 Oct 1439

Family 3

Lady Anne Montagu d. 28 Nov 1457

Citations

  1. [S802] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=greyghost, Bruce Gregg (unknown location), downloaded update 9 July 2000, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=greyghost&id=I2094
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Exeter 8: p. 299. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S1807] Louise Staley, "Staley email #5 3 Aug 2005 "EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 3 Aug 2005. Hereinafter cited as "Staley email #5 3 Aug 2005."
  4. [S802] e-mail address, update 9 July 2000, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=greyghost&id=I2095
  5. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Stafford Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  6. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Exeter 9: p. 300.
  7. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Mortimer 12.i: p. 527.
  8. [S2371] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 2nd edition (n.p.: n.pub., 2011), Vol III: Stafford 10.ii: p. 253. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  9. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Fitz Alan 11.vi: p. 322.
  10. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Hankford 10: p. 373.
  11. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-8, p. 19. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  12. [S802] e-mail address, update 9 July 2000, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=greyghost&id=I2089
  13. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I08125
  14. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Neville 12: pp. 544-5.

Sir William de Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceaux, Sussex, etc.1,2

M, #12732, b. circa 1330, d. 2 December 1359
FatherSir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks1,3,2 d. 5 Apr 1351
MotherMaud De Mounceaux1,2
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     Sir William de Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceaux, Sussex, etc. was born circa 1330; aged 21 in 1351.4,2 He married Joan De Say, daughter of Geoffrey (IV) de Say 2nd Lord Say, Baron of West Greenwich, Kent and Lady Maud de Beauchamp, before 1356; her 1st husband.4,1,2 Sir William de Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceaux, Sussex, etc. died on 2 December 1359; Weis says d. 30 Nov 1359.4,1,2

Family

Joan De Say d. 29 Jun 1378
Children

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Say 10: p. 641. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sir John de Fienes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038370&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  4. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-6, p. 18. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  5. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Cromer 12: p. 245.

Joan De Say1

F, #12733, d. 29 June 1378
FatherGeoffrey (IV) de Say 2nd Lord Say, Baron of West Greenwich, Kent1 b. 30 Apr 1305, d. 26 Jun 1359
MotherLady Maud de Beauchamp1 d. 28 Jul 1369
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     Joan De Say married Sir William de Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceaux, Sussex, etc., son of Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks and Maud De Mounceaux, before 1356; her 1st husband.2,3,1 Joan De Say married Stephen de Valence before 1370; her 2nd husband.1 Joan De Say died on 29 June 1378.2,1
     Joan De Say JOAN de Say; m Sir William FIENNES (d 1359), s of John de Fiennes (d 1351) and Maud de Monceux, and had, with an er s (d young): William (Sir).3

Family 1

Sir William de Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceaux, Sussex, etc. b. c 1330, d. 2 Dec 1359
Children

Citations

  1. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Say 10: p. 641. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-6, p. 18. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  3. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  4. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Cromer 12: p. 245.

Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks1,2

M, #12734, d. 5 April 1351
FatherJohn de Fiennes3,1 d. 1331
MotherJoan le Forrester1,4
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks married Maud De Mounceaux, daughter of John de Monceux Knt., circa 1329.5,1,2 Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks died on 5 April 1351.5,6,1
     Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks van de Pas cites: An account of the families of Lennard and Barrett, 1908., Barrett-Lennard, Thomas, Reference: 152, 162.1 He was M.P. in 1343.5

Citations

  1. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sir John de Fienes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038370&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Say 10: p. 641. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, John de Fiennes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038373&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Joan le Forrester: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038374&tree=LEO
  5. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-6, p. 18. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  6. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Maud De Mounceaux

F, #12735
FatherJohn de Monceux Knt.1
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     Maud De Mounceaux married Sir John de Fiennes Knt., of White Waltham, Berks, son of John de Fiennes and Joan le Forrester, circa 1329.2,3,1
     Maud De Mounceaux Weis MCS 16C-6.2 Maud De Mounceaux was also known as Maud de Monceux.1

Citations

  1. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Say 10: p. 641. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-6, p. 18. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  3. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sir John de Fienes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038370&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  4. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

John de Monceux Knt.1

M, #12736
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     John de Monceux Knt. Weis MCS 16C-6.2

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Say 10: p. 641. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16C-6, p. 18. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele1,2,3,4

M, #12737, b. circa 1395, d. 4 July 1450
FatherSir William Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceux, Sussex2,4 b. 1 Aug 1357, d. bt 18 Jan 1401 - 1402
MotherElizabeth Batisford5,2,4 d. b 1407
Last Edited22 Dec 2012
     Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele was born circa 1395; van de Pas says b. "say 1386."6,1,2,3 He married Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham before 5 August 1441; Richardson says this is his 2nd wife. Van de Pas quotes Brice Clagett: "Douglas Richardson's 'Plantagenet Ancestry', 2004, page 245 says that James Fiennes, 1st Lord Saye and Sele, had an 'unidentified first wife', who was mother of his daughter Elizabeth, wife of William Cromer. I know of no evidence for such an unidentified first wife, and RPA cites none. I do think there is doubt as to whether his wife Emeline was, as usually stated, surnamed Cromer; this seems likely to be a confusion with daughter Elizabeth's marriage. Edward Rowe Mores, _The History and Antiquities of Tunstall in Kent_, Bibliotheca Topographica Britannica (1790 republished in 1968) vol I. p.27, citing older pedigrees, says that Lord Saye's wife was Emeline Walsingham. (Brice Clagett.)6,1,7,3,2" Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele died on 4 July 1450 at Standard, Cheapside, England; beheaded by a lynch mob led by Jack Cade.6,1,2,3 He was buried after 4 July 1450 at Grey Friars', Newgate, London, England.2
     He was Treasurer of England.2

Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele JAMES FIENNES, 1st LORD (Baron) SAYE AND SELE (E), so cr by Letters Patent probably by 24 Feb (writ of summons 3 March) 1446/7, PC (1447), JP (Kent 1433); b c 1395; served Hundred Years War in France, where granted lordship of Court-le-Comte by HENRY V, Capt (i.e, govr town of) Arques and Capt-Gen towns along the Seine; built Knole, Kent, with spoils from Hundred Years War, Sheriff Kent 1436, Esq of the Body and Kt of the Body to HENRY VI by 28 Aug 1437 and 9 Oct 1444 respectively, Sheriff Surrey and Sussex 1438, MP Kent 1439-40, 1442, 1445-46 and 1447, Constable Rochester Castle March 1442-Feb 1442/3, King's Serjeant by 24 April 1443, Constable Dover Castle and Warden Cinque Ports Feb 1446/7-50, King's Chamberlain April 1447, Constable Tower Aug 1447, Treasurer England 1449-50 (removed by HENRY VI when accused by H of C of treason as scapegoat for loss of French possessions towards close of Hundred Years War; later imprisoned in Tower by HENRY VI, again as scapegoat, on rising of Jack Cade); m Emiline/Emmeline Cro(w)mer (d 5 Jan 1451/2), of Willingham, and was beheaded by a lynch mob led by Jack Cade 4 July 1450.1

Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele van de Pas cites: 1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: Q 118534
2. Plantagenet Ancestry, 2004 (a record of corrections made by others) , Richardson, Douglas
3. The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: XI 479.3

Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele Weis MCS 16E-8.8 He was 1st Lord Saye and Sele between 24 February 1446 and 1447.6,1,2

Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele left a will on 12 April 1449.2

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Cromer 12: p. 245. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, James Fiennes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109098&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  4. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Say 11.ii: p. 642.
  5. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elizabeth de Batesford: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00038365&tree=LEO
  6. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16E-8, p. 21. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  7. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emeline Walsingham: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109099&tree=LEO
  8. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 16E-8, p. 21: "...beheaded at the Standard in Cheapside."
  9. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 16E-9, p. 21.
  10. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elizabeth Fiennes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109089&tree=LEO

Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham1,2

F, #12738, d. 5 January 1451/52
Last Edited1 Sep 2008
     Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham married Sir James Fiennes Knt., 1st Lord Saye and Sele, son of Sir William Fiennes Knt., of Herstmonceux, Sussex and Elizabeth Batisford, before 5 August 1441; Richardson says this is his 2nd wife. Van de Pas quotes Brice Clagett: "Douglas Richardson's 'Plantagenet Ancestry', 2004, page 245 says that James Fiennes, 1st Lord Saye and Sele, had an 'unidentified first wife', who was mother of his daughter Elizabeth, wife of William Cromer. I know of no evidence for such an unidentified first wife, and RPA cites none. I do think there is doubt as to whether his wife Emeline was, as usually stated, surnamed Cromer; this seems likely to be a confusion with daughter Elizabeth's marriage. Edward Rowe Mores, _The History and Antiquities of Tunstall in Kent_, Bibliotheca Topographica Britannica (1790 republished in 1968) vol I. p.27, citing older pedigrees, says that Lord Saye's wife was Emeline Walsingham. (Brice Clagett.)3,1,4,5,2" Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham was buried after 5 January 1451 at Grey Friars', Newgate, London, England.2 She died on 5 January 1451/52.3,1,2
     Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham van de Pas cites: 1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: Q 118534.4 Emiline Cromer (Crowmer) of Willingham was also known as Emeline Walsingham.4

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Cromer 12: p. 245. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 16E-8, p. 21. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  4. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emeline Walsingham: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109099&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  5. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, James Fiennes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109098&tree=LEO
  6. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 16E-9, p. 21.
  7. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elizabeth Fiennes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00109089&tree=LEO

Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester1,2,3

M, #12739, d. between 4 February 1506 and 5 March 1506
FatherMaurice Berkeley Knt., of Beverstone, Gloucestershire6,2,5 b. c 1398, d. 5 May 1460
MotherLora Fitz Hugh4,2,5
Last Edited12 Oct 2008
     Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester married Christian Holt, daughter of Richard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants and Joan Barton of Derbyshire, before 1462; his 1st wife.7,8,3 Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester married Alice Cock (Coxe), daughter of John Cock (Coxe) of Bristol; her 2nd husband; his 2nd wife.3 Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester died between 4 February 1506 and 5 March 1506.3

His estate was probated on 5 March 1506; P.C.C. 4 Adeabe.3
     Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: IX 338.2

Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester lived at Beverton, Gloucestershire, England.7

Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester left a will on 4 February 1506.3

Family 1

Christian Holt
Child

Family 2

Alice Cock (Coxe) d. 29 Oct 1509
Child

Citations

  1. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's Dromant, Abeyant, Forgeited, and Extinct Peerages, p. 55. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.
  2. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sir Edward Berkeley, of Beverton Castle: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00214348&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Fisher 11: p. 313. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  4. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lora FitzHugh: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00347913&tree=LEO
  5. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Fisher 10: pp. 312-313.
  6. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Maurice Berkeley: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00347912&tree=LEO
  7. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 17-10, p. 21. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  8. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), pp. 60+61, BUTLER 6. Hereinafter cited as Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry."
  9. [S673] David Faris, Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry", p. 60, BUTLER 6.
  10. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Butler 13: pp. 178-179.
  11. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lora Berkeley: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00101385&tree=LEO
  12. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Fisher 12: p. 313.

Christian Holt1,2,3

F, #12740
FatherRichard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants1,2,3
MotherJoan Barton of Derbyshire3
Last Edited11 Oct 2008
     Christian Holt married Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester, son of Maurice Berkeley Knt., of Beverstone, Gloucestershire and Lora Fitz Hugh, before 1462; his 1st wife.4,1,3
     Christian Holt (an unknown value.)4

Family

Sir Edward Berkeley Knt., of Beverton Castle, co. Gloucester d. bt 4 Feb 1506 - 5 Mar 1506
Child

Citations

  1. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), pp. 60+61, BUTLER 6. Hereinafter cited as Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry."
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Butler 13: pp. 178-179. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Fisher 11: p. 313.
  4. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 17-10, p. 21. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  5. [S673] David Faris, Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry", p. 60, BUTLER 6.
  6. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lora Berkeley: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00101385&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.

Richard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants1

M, #12741
Last Edited11 Oct 2008
     Richard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants married Joan Barton of Derbyshire.2
     Richard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants lived at Coldrey, Hampshire, England.3

Richard Holt Esq. of Coldrey in Froyle, co. Hants (an unknown value.)3

Citations

  1. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), pp. 60+61, BUTLER 6. Hereinafter cited as Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry."
  2. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Fisher 11: p. 313. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  3. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 17-10, p. 21. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  4. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Butler 13: pp. 178-179.

Mary Sackville

F, #12742, d. before 30 June 1571
FatherJohn Sackville Esq., of Chiddingly, Sussex1,2 b. b 17 Mar 1484, d. 27 Sep 1557
MotherMargaret Boleyn3,1 d. 27 Sep 1557
Last Edited9 Aug 2008
     Mary Sackville married John Lunsford, son of William Lunsford Esq., of Lunsford, Sussex and Margaret Fiennes.4 Mary Sackville died before 30 June 1571.4
     Mary Sackville (an unknown value.)4

Family

John Lunsford b. c 1510, d. b 29 Jan 1581
Child

Citations

  1. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Butler 14.ii: pp. 179-180. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  2. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, John Sackville, of Chiddingly: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00116571&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Margaret Boleyn: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00116572&tree=LEO
  4. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 17A-13, p. 22. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

John Lunsford

M, #12743, b. circa 1510, d. before 29 January 1581
FatherWilliam Lunsford Esq., of Lunsford, Sussex d. 3 May 1531
MotherMargaret Fiennes d. a 26 Sep 1531
Last Edited28 Aug 2002
     John Lunsford was buried at East Hoathley, Sussex, England.1 He married Mary Sackville, daughter of John Sackville Esq., of Chiddingly, Sussex and Margaret Boleyn.2 John Lunsford was born circa 1510.1 He died before 29 January 1581.1

His estate was probated on 29 January 1581/82.1
     John Lunsford lived at Lunsford and Wilegh, Sussex, England.2

John Lunsford (an unknown value.)2

John Lunsford left a will on 19 October 1581.1

Family

Mary Sackville d. b 30 Jun 1571
Child

Citations

  1. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 88A-15, p. 108. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  2. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 17A-13, p. 22.

Humbert (?) Comte de Geneva

M, #12744
Last Edited29 May 2001
     Humbert (?) Comte de Geneva married Anne (?) di Savoie.1
     Humbert (?) Comte de Geneva was Comte de Geneva.1

Humbert (?) Comte de Geneva (an unknown value.)1

Family

Anne (?) di Savoie
Child

Citations

  1. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), Line 17C-4, p. 23. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

Anne (?) di Savoie

F, #12745
Last Edited29 May 2001
     Anne (?) di Savoie married Humbert (?) Comte de Geneva.1
     Anne (?) di Savoie (an unknown value.)1

Citations

  1. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), Line 17C-4, p. 23. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne1,2

F, #12746, d. 11 April 1260
FatherEtienne III (?) Cmte d'Auxonne2,1 d. 16 Mar 1241
MotherBéatrix/Beatrice de Chalon Comtesse de Chalon3,1,2 b. 1174, d. 7 Apr 1227
ReferenceGAV21 EDV21
Last Edited20 Apr 2004
     Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne and Aymon II (?) Sire de Faucigny were divorced.4,1 Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne married Aymon II (?) Sire de Faucigny, son of Henri (?) Sire de Faucigny and Comtesson (?) de Genève; his 1st wife; her 1st husband.5,1 Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne married Simon de Joinville Senechal of Champagne, son of Geoffroi IV de Joinville Senechal de Champagne and Helvide de Dampierre, in 1222; 2nd husband.6,1,2,7 Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne died on 11 April 1260.1,2
     GAV-21 EDV-21.

Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne Leo van de pas cites: 1. The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 628
2. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: II 60,XIV 70.1

Beatrix (?) d'Auxonne-Bourgogne Weis [MCS] line 17C-4.6

Citations

  1. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrice d'Auxonne-Bourgogne: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00026598&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Ivrea 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/ivrea/ivrea2.html
  3. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrix: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00026469&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aymon II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00048709&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, van de Pas cites: ~Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: II 60,XIV 70.
  6. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), Line 17C-4, p. 23. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  7. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Simon de Joinville: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00026597&tree=LEO
  8. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrix de Faucigny: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00065917&tree=LEO
  9. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes de Faucigny: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141241&tree=LEO
  10. [S1489] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email "Re: Complete Peerage Correction: Henry, Earl of Lancaster's marriage to Alix ..."," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 24 Sept 2003. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 24 Sept 2003."
  11. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Simon de Joinville: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00302383&tree=LEO

Joan (Jeanne) De Joinville1,2

F, #12747
FatherSir Geoffrey de Joinville 1st Lord Geneville2 b. c 1226, d. 21 Oct 1314
MotherMaud (Matilda) de Lacy b. c 1230, d. 11 Apr 1304
Last Edited31 Jul 2004
     Joan (Jeanne) De Joinville married Gerald Rothfalyaght ('The Red Man of Offaly') Fitz Maurice Fitz Gerald 4th Baron of Offaly, son of Maurice Ruadh ('The Red') Fitz Gerald 3rd Baron of Offaly.3,1 Joan (Jeanne) De Joinville married Johann I (?) Graf von Ober-Salm, son of Heinrich IV (?) Grav von Ober-Salm and Lauretta (?) Graefin von Blieskastel, before 1294.3,2
     Joan (Jeanne) De Joinville Jeanne, heiress of Neuviller, dau.of Geoffroi de Joinville.2

Joan (Jeanne) De Joinville Weis [MCS] line 17C-5.3

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Leinster Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html
  3. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 17C-5, p. 23. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.

Beatrice de Say1,2

F, #12748, d. before 19 April 1197
FatherWilliam de Say of Kimbolton3,4,2 d. b 1 Aug 1177
ReferenceGAV23 EDV23
Last Edited25 May 2009
     Beatrice de Say married Geoffrey Fitz Piers 4th Earl of Essex, son of Piers de Lutegareshale and Maud de Mandeville Lady of Costow, Wiltshire, before 25 January 1184.5,6,1,3,2 Beatrice de Say was buried circa 1197 at Shouldham Priory, Essex, England.1 She died before 19 April 1197.6,7,3
     GAV-23 EDV-23 GKJ-24.

Beatrice de Say Beatrice; m by 25 Jan 1184/5 Geoffrey fitz Piers, 3rd Earl of Essex (qv) of the Jan 1155/6 cr, and d by 19 April 1197, leaving issue.3

Beatrice de Say Leo van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: VI 459.2

Beatrice de Say (an unknown value.)5

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 87-88, Fitz GEOFFREY 2. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  2. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrice de Say: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139099&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  4. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Say, of Kimbolton: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177855&tree=LEO
  5. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 18-1, p. 25. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  6. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 160-3, p. 189.
  7. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001), pp. 87-88, Fitz GEOFFREY 2: "died in childbed.
  8. [S1639] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 23 May 2004: "Re: Peter de Valognes/Peter de Valence/Piers de Valoins"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 23 May 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 23 May 2004."
  9. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001), pp. 87-88, Fitz GEOFFREY 2:iii.
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001), pp. 87-88, Fitz GEOFFREY 2:i.
  11. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Bohun.pdf, p. 3. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

William de Say of Kimbolton1,2

M, #12749, d. before 1 August 1177
FatherWilliam I de Say5,1,6,2 b. 1123, d. Aug 1144
MotherBeatrice de Mandeville3,1,4,2 b. c 1100, d. b 1197
ReferenceGAV24 EDV24
Last Edited9 Apr 2004
     William de Say of Kimbolton married Aufrica (?) of Scotland, daughter of William I "The Lion" (?) Earl of Northumberland, King of Scotland.7,8,9 William de Say of Kimbolton died before 1 August 1177.1,2
     GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-25.

William de Say of Kimbolton Leo van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 117.2

William de Say of Kimbolton William, of Kimbolton, Hunts, and Saham, Norfolk; m -, and dspm just prior to 1 Aug 1177.1

William de Say of Kimbolton (an unknown value.)10

Family 2

Children

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saye and Sele Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Say, of Kimbolton: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177855&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  3. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 87-88, Fitz GEOFFREY 2. Hereinafter cited as Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001).
  4. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrice de Mandeville: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177854&tree=LEO
  5. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I03510
  6. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Say: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177853&tree=LEO
  7. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer, Med English Ancestors (2001), p. 115, HUNTINGDON 5:x.
  8. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Dunkeld page (The House of Dunkeld): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brit/dunkeld.html
  9. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aufrica of Scotland: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00002886&tree=LEO
  10. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 18-1, p. 25. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  11. [S1361] Mike Ashley, The Mammoth Book of British Kings & Queens (New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc., 1998), p. 410 (Chart 22). Hereinafter cited as Ashley: British Kings.
  12. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrice de Say: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139099&tree=LEO

Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners1,2,3,4

F, #12750, d. between 17 February 1561 and 1562
FatherSir John Bourchier KB, 2nd Lord Berners2,5,6,3 b. c 1467, d. bt 19 Mar 1532 - 1533
MotherLady Katherine Howard2,6,7,3 d. 12 Mar 1535/36
Last Edited28 Oct 2008
     Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners married Sir Edmund Knyvet Knt., of Ashwellthorpe, Norfolk, son of Sir Edmund Knyvet Knt., of Buckenham, Norfolk and Eleanor Tyrell.8,3,9,4 Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners died between 17 February 1561 and 1562.8,1,10,3,4 She was buried after 17 February 1562 at Ashwellthorpe (Near Wymondham), co. Norfolk, England.3
     Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners JANE Bourchier, of Ashwellthorpe, Norfolk, de jure BARONESS BERNERS; m Edmund KNYVETT, Sgt-Porter to HENRY VIII (d April 1539), and d 17 Feb 1561/2, having had, with other issue:
John.10

Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners lived at Ashwellthorpe, co. Norfolk, England.2,3

Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners Weis MCS 18-13.8 Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners was also known as Joan Bourgchier.6

Jane/Joan Bourchier Baroness Berners van de Pas cites: 1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: P 59290
2. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America bef.1700, 7th Edition, 1992, Weis, Frederick Lewis, Reference: 8.11,4

Citations

  1. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 4-36, p. 8. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  2. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page (see PLYMOUTH, E). Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  3. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Gurdon 14: p. 368. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  4. [S1490] Leo van de Pas Web Site "Leo's Genealogics Website", online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Jane Bourchier: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00058694&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Leo's Genealogics Website.
  5. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, John Bourchier: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00008406&tree=LEO
  6. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Richardson PA, Bourchier 12: p. 142.
  7. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lady Catherine Howard: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00007900&tree=LEO
  8. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (n.p.: Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1999, unknown publish date), line 18-13, p. 26. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  9. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Edmund Knyvett: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00058693&tree=LEO
  10. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page.
  11. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), pp. 44-45: "child of John Bourgchier by an unidentified mistress". Hereinafter cited as Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry."
  12. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis MCS-5, line 18-14, p. 26.
  13. [S1490] Leo's Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, John Knyvett: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00058689&tree=LEO