Person Page - 1693

     Edward de Clinton was born circa 1374.¹
Edward de Clinton died after 1398.¹
     He was living after 1398.¹

     Elizabeth de la Plaunche was born circa 1347; Richardson says "aged 9 in 1356."^2,3 She married Sir John de Bermingham Knt., of Birmingham, Warwickshire before 3 July 1356
; her 1st husband.^1,2,3 Elizabeth de la Plaunche married Robert de Grey Knt., 5th Lord Grey of Rotherfield.^1,2,3
Elizabeth de la Plaunche married Sir John de Clinton 3rd Lord Clinton of Maxstoke, son of Sir John de Clinton Knt., 2nd Lord Clinton of Maxstoke and Margery/Mary Corbet, before 24 October 1388
; his 3rd wife.^1,3,5 Elizabeth de la Plaunche married Sir John Russell Knt., of Strensham circa 24 December 1398
; her 4th husband, date is of contract or similar.^6,3
Elizabeth de la Plaunche died after 1 September 1423; dsp.¹
Elizabeth de la Plaunche died on 11 September 1424.²
      ; van de Pas cites: 1. The Complete Peerage, 1936, Doubleday, H. A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: III 314
2. Burke's Genealogical and Herladic History of the Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage, London, Reference: 601.²

     Annabella (?) married Oliver Deincourt of Blankney, 5th Baron d'Eyncourt, son of John Deincourt of Blankney, 4th Baron d'Eyncourt and Alice/Ann Murdac.^1,2,3

     Reference: (an unknown value.)³ Annabella (?) was also known as Amabel (?)³

     Sir John de Bermingham Knt., of Birmingham, Warwickshire married Elizabeth de la Plaunche, daughter of William de la Plaunche of Haversham, Buckinghamshire and Elizabeth Hillary, before 3 July 1356
; her 1st husband.^1,3,2

     William de la Plaunche of Haversham, Buckinghamshire married Elizabeth Hillary, daughter of Sir Roger Hillary Knt.³

      ; van de Pas cites: 1. The Complete Peerage, 1936, Doubleday, H. A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: III 314
2. The History and Antiquities of the County of Buckingham, Lipscomb, Dr. George, Reference: IV 193-194.³

William de la Plaunche of Haversham, Buckinghamshire lived at Haversham, Buckinghamshire, England.¹

     Mary (?) married Sir John Heron of Northumberland.¹
Mary (?) married Sir Henry Retford of Carlton Paynel and Castlethorpe, Lincolnshire.¹
Mary (?) married William de Clinton 4th Lord Clinton, Lord Say, son of Sir William de Clinton and Elizabeth Deincourt.¹

Mary (?) died between 2 February 1458 and 2 February 1459.¹

     John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock married Margaret St. Leger, daughter of Sir John St. Leger of Ulcombe, Kent,
; his 2nd wife.¹ John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock married Joan Ferrers, daughter of Edmund de Ferrers Knt., de jure 6th Lord Ferrers of Chartley and Ellen/Eleanor de la Roche.¹
John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock was born in 1410.¹
John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock died on 24 September 1464.¹
      ; JOHN de CLINTON, 5th Lord (Baron) Clinton; b 1410; taken prisoner 1441 when serving in France and held more than six yrs till ransomed for 6,000 marks, exchanged the Ldship (Manor) of Maxstoke c 1438 with Humphrey, Earl of Stafford, for the Ldships (Manors) of Whiston and Woodford, Northants; coheir to the Barony of Say but relinquished all claim to it 1 Nov 1448 in favour of Sir James Fiennes (see SAYE AND SELE, B); attainted 1459 for his Yorkist sympathies but restored 1461; m 1st - ; m 2nd Margaret (m 2nd Walter Hungerford, 3rd s of Sir Edmund Hungerford (see SAINT DAVIDS, V); m 3rd Sir John Heveningham and d 1 Feb 1495/6), dau of John St Leger, of Ulcombe, Kent, and d 24 Sept 1464.¹ He was 5th Lord (Baron) Clinton.¹

     Margaret St. Leger married John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock, son of William de Clinton 4th Lord Clinton, Lord Say and Alice/Anne de Botreaux,
; his 2nd wife.¹ Margaret St. Leger married Walter Hungerford, son of Sir Edmund Hungerford Knt. and Margaret/Margery Burnell.^1,2
Margaret St. Leger married Sir John Heveningham.³

Margaret St. Leger died between 1 February 1495 and 1 February 1496.³

     Walter Hungerford married Margaret St. Leger, daughter of Sir John St. Leger of Ulcombe, Kent.^1,2

     Sir Edmund Hungerford Knt. was born circa 1410. He married Margaret/Margery Burnell, daughter of Sir Edward Burnell Knt., of Billingford, etc. Norfolk and Aline/Alice le Strange, before 8 November 1416
; Burke's Peerage says "m just before 8 Nov 1416."^1,2,6
Sir Edmund Hungerford Knt. died in 1484.¹
Sir Edmund Hungerford Knt. died in 1486 at Down Ampney, Gloucestershire, England.
      ; Edmund (Sir); ktd 1426, m just before 8 Nov 1416 Margaret (b c 1405), dau and coheir of Edward Burnell (ka vp Agincourt 25 Oct 1415) and gdau of 2nd Lord (Baron) Burnell, between whom and her two sisters the Barony of Burnell is by later doctrine held to have fallen into abeyance on the 2nd Lord Burnell's death in 1420 (see SHREWSBURY and WATERFORD, E), and d 1484, having had, with six daus.¹

; Sir Edmund was knighted by Henry VI and he served in the French Wars. He held many offices in Wiltshire and later became established at Down Ampney, head of the junior branch of the family. Down Ampney is a village in Gloucestershire. the manor was purchased in 1398 by Sir. Thomas.

Only the gateway remains, an impressive reminder of the grandeur of these 15th century estates. Unlike other members of his family, Sir. Edmund gave his allegiance to Edward IV.

Very little documentation of the personal lives of the members of the Hungerford family exists, most of what is known was in the records of the local governments in which they served. However, a humourous glimpse can be obtained from Thomas Beckington's letter to Sir. Edmund in 1442.

"My right trusty and right entirely well beloved master, I recommend me unto you... this day I overtook my Lord your father at Devise, who is in good health (blessed be our Saviour!) and sends you his blessings...(he) told me that on Monday last past, my Lord of Salisbury and he and my Lord Moleyns visited my Lady your wife...and they so tasted your wines at that time, that I trust to God, if ye have many such visitations, your wines shall neither sour, nor stand base, for default of such drinkers..."

Note: Unless otherwise stated all Hungerford family information is courtesy of the Hungerford Family Association, the Hungerford website and Peter Sherlock.⁷

     Sir John St. Leger of Ulcombe, Kent lived at Ulcombe, co. Kent, England.¹

     John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton married Elizabeth Fiennes, daughter of Sir Richard Fiennes Knt., 7th Lord Dacre, of Herstmonceux, Sussed, etc. and Joan Dacre Baroness Dacre of Gilsland.^2,3
John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton married Anne Stafford, daughter of Sir Humphrey Stafford.²
John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton was born between 1429 and 1434.¹
John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton died on 29 February 1488.¹
     He was 6th Lord (Baron) Clinton.²

     Elizabeth Fiennes married John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton, son of John de Clinton 5th Lord Clinton of Maxtock.^1,2

     John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB was born circa 1470.¹ He married Elizabeth Morgan, daughter of Sir John Morgan of Tredegar, Monmouth, before 1490.^1,2
John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB married Anne West, daughter of Sir Thomas West Ktn., KG, 5th Lord West, 8th Lord la Warre and Eleanor de Percy, before 1501.^1,3

John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB died on 4 June 1514.^1,2
      ; Available records of early Chancery Proceedings include a suit between Thomas West, Lord la Warre, and his daughter, Anne's husband, John Clinton, Lord Clinton and Saye. The suit is dated 1501/2. An abstract of the suit can be found on the online PROCAT website at the following web address: http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/

C1/252/20
Thomas West, lord la Warr, v. John Clynton, Lord Clinton and Saye: Neglect to settle the manors of Belhall and Amyngton [co. Warwick] on himself and Anne, daughter of Lord la Warr, on their marriage.

Complete Peerage 3 (1913): 316-317 (sub Clinton) indicates that John Clinton, 7th Lord Clinton (died 1514) married (2nd) before 1501 Anne,whose maiden name and parentage are not identified. The Chancery suit cited above proves that Anne was the daughter of Thomas West, lord la Warre (died 1525). However, the question now remains: Which of Thomas West's wives was the mother of Anne?

Thomas West married (1st) Eleanor Percy, daughter of Henry Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, by whom he is not known to have had any children. He married (2nd) in or before 1482 Elizabeth Mortimer, by whom he had ten children. Given the chronology, it seems possible that either wife was the mother of his daughter, Anne. I'd very much appreciate comments from anyone with knowledge of these families.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com.⁴


He was 7th Lord (Baron) Clinton.⁵

; JOHN CLINTON alias FIENNES, 7th Lord (Baron) Clinton, KB (1501); b c 1470/1; m 1st by 1490 Elizabeth (d by 1501), dau of Sir John Morgan, of Tredegar, Mon; m 2nd by 1501 Anne - and d 4 June 1514, leaving issue.¹

; Leo van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: III 316.²

     Elizabeth Morgan married John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB, son of John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton and Elizabeth Fiennes, before 1490.^1,2

Elizabeth Morgan died before 1501.¹

     Sir John Morgan of Tredegar, Monmouth lived at Tredegar, Monmouthshire, England.¹

     Anne West married John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB, son of John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 6th Lord Clinton and Elizabeth Fiennes, before 1501.^1,2

      ; Douglas Richardson wrote: ""Thomas West married (1st) Eleanor Percy, daughter of Henry Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, by whom he is not known to have had any children. He married (2nd) in or before 1482 Elizabeth Mortimer, by whom he had ten children. Given the chronology, it seems possible that either wife was the mother of his daughter, Anne. I'd very much appreciate comments from anyone with knowledge of these families.

Doug kindly sent me the details of the chancery suit a few days ago, as a CP addition. Earlier this week I had a chance to look at the record of that suit and some other relevant printed sources.

It's clear that John Clinton's wife Anne, mentioned in the CP account, is a daughter of Thomas West, Lord la Warr (d. 1525), but the evidence leaves uncertain two related questions - (1) whether Anne was the mother of John Clinton's son and heir, Thomas, and (2) which of Thomas West's wives was Anne's mother.

(1) The identity of Thomas Clinton's mother.

CP [iii 317] says that Anne was "apparently" not the mother of John Clinton's son and heir Thomas, implying that the mother was Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John Morgan, whom John Clinton is "said to have married" firstly.

However, the basis of this seems to be only the language of a grant to John Clinton's grandson Edward in 1535, of livery of his lands, including reversions on the deaths of Anne Clynton, widow of John, and Joan, then wife of Sir Robert Wyngefeld and widow of John's son Thomas. In the published abstract, Joan is described as Edward's mother, but Anne is not described as his grandmother, which seems to be the basis of CP's conclusion that she was apparently not the mother of John's heir.

On the other hand, in Thomas West's bill in the 1501 x 1502 chancery suit, he recounts a pre-marital agreement whereby he had paid more than 1000 marks to John Clinton, and Clinton had promised to settle all the lands he then held in England on himself and Anne and the heirs of their bodies. This seems a bit odd, if Clinton already had a son and heir by a previous marriage.

For what it's worth, the fact that John Clinton's son was called Thomas is easily explained if he was Anne's son - he would be named after his maternal grandfather - but not if he was the son of Elizabeth Morgan. In the latter case, it seems we should have to go back to his 2 x great grandparents to find anyone called Thomas.

Chronology doesn't give too much help, as Thomas Clinton was born about 1490, but apart from the fact that John was married to Anne West by 1501, CP doesn't pin down the dates of his marriages. Thomas West was born about 1457, so the generations would have to be short for Thomas Clinton to be his grandson, but not impossible.

(2) The identity of Anne West's mother.

At any rate, Anne West (married by 1501) could not be a daughter of Thomas West's third wife, Eleanor Copley, as his second wife Elizabeth Mortimer did not die until 1502.

A confusing factor is that from the wills of Thomas West, his widow Eleanor, and Eleanor's sister Elizabeth Copley, we know that Thomas did have a daughter Anne, who had married Sir Anthony Saint Amand and had by him a daughter Mary. The wording of the wills suggests that Anne was dead by 1525 (whereas Anne the widow of John Clinton was still living in 1535), and that Mary was still under "her laufull age of mariage" in 1536. This chronology, together with the language, suggests that this Anne was a daughter of Eleanor Copley (Eleanor refers to "my son Sayntmonde", and her sister Elizabeth to "my [great] nece Mary Saytmont").

Beyond this, what we know of the chronology - that Thomas West married his second wife Elizabeth Mortimer by about 1481 - would allow Anne to be the daughter of either Eleanor Percy or Elizabeth Mortimer.

However, _if_ Anne was also the mother of Thomas Clinton, she could certainly not have been the son of Elizabeth Mortimer, as we know that Elizabeth Mortimer's son Thomas West (d. 1554) was succeeded by his nieces, the heirs of his two whole-blood sisters Eleanor and Dorothy. Whereas the Clintons were still alive and well at that time, so there would have been a Clinton coheir if they descended from Elizabeth Mortimer.

So if it were concluded from (1) that Anne West was the mother of John Clinton's heir, it would seem that Anne's mother must have been Eleanor
Percy. But more evidence is needed before either question is clear.

(For some more information on Thomas West and his wives, see: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/delawarr.shtml)

Chris Phillips.²

     Thomas Clinton (alias Fiennes) 8th Lord Clinton was born circa 1490.¹ He married Joan Poynings, daughter of Sir Edward Poynings Kg, circa 4 May 1510 at settlement 4 May 1510.⁴

Thomas Clinton (alias Fiennes) 8th Lord Clinton died on 7 August 1517.¹
      ; THOMAS CLINTON alias FIENNES, 8th Lord (Baron) Clinton; b c 1490; ktd 1513; m (settlement 4 May 1510) Joan (m 2nd after 4 July 1519 Sir Robert Wingfield; see POWERSCOURT, V), illegitimate dau of Sir Edward Poynings, KG, and d 7 Aug 1517, leaving issue.⁴

; Since making my initial post regarding Anne West, 2nd wife of John Clinton, 7th Lord Clinton, I've located an abstract of another helpful Chancery suit involving the baronial Clinton family, which abstract can be access on the online PROCAT website at the following web address:

http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/

This second suit appears to involve John Clinton's first marriage to Elizabeth Morgan, daughter of John ap Morgan, Knight, of Wales. I've provided below a copy of the abstract of the suit as it appears on the PROCAT website. The plaintiff in this case is John Clinton's father, John Clinton, Sr. (died 1488), who alleges that John ap Morgan, knight, intends to marry his son and heir [John, Jr.] against his will (presumably to John Morgan's daughter, Elizabeth):

E1/61/412
John Clinton, knight, Lord Clinton and Say, vs. The sheriffs of London: Detention of complainant in time of plague at the suits of Johanne, late the wife of Roger Hykson, saddler of London, and of John ap Morgan, of South Wales, knight, who has complainant's son and heir in Wales and intends to marry him against his will.

Unfortunately, the PROCAT website doesn't indicate the date of this suit, However, I assume the suit dates from just previous to John Clinton, Sr.'s death in 1488. If so, this would indicate that John Clinton, Jr.'s 1st marriage to Elizabeth Morgan took place in or before 1488, and that Elizabeth Morgan (not Anne West) was the mother of John Clinton, Jr.'s son and heir, Thomas, born about 1490.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com.³
He was 8th Lord (Baron) Clinton.¹

     Joan Poynings married Thomas Clinton (alias Fiennes) 8th Lord Clinton, son of John Clinton (alias Fiennes) 7th Lord Clinton, KB and Elizabeth Morgan, circa 4 May 1510 at settlement 4 May 1510.¹
Joan Poynings married Sir Robert Wingfield, son of Sir John Wingfield Knt., KB, of Letheringham, Suffolk and Elizabeth fitz Lewis, after 4 July 1519.^3,4

     Sir Edward Poynings Kg was born in 1459.³
Sir Edward Poynings Kg died in 1521.³
      ; per van de Pas: [quote] Sir Edward Poynings was the only son of Sir Robert Poynings and Elizabeth Paston. Edward became involved in a rebellion against King Richard III and was forced to flee to the Continent. He attached himself to Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond and returned to England with him in 1485. Henry Tudor now King Henry VII employed him in the wars on the Continent, and in 1493 he was made governor of Calais as well as a Knight of the Garter.

In 1494 Edward was sent to Ireland as lord deputy under the viceroyalty of the future Henry VIII. Edward Poynings set about Anglicizing the government of Ireland and summoned the celebrated parliament of Drogheda, which met in December 1494. He enacted the Statutes of Drogheda which became known as Poynings' Law.

After defeating Perkin Warbeck at Waterford, Edward Poynings returned to England and was in 1496 appointed warden of the Cinque Ports. His most important achievement was the successful negotiation in 1513 of the holy league between England, Spain, the emperor and the pope. In 1520 he was present at the Field of the Cloth of Gold. He died in 1521. His only son by his wife Isabel/Elizabeth Scot had died before him and his estates were inherited by the Earl of Northumberland. However he also had three illegitimate sons and four illegitimate daughters. [end quote]³

; Leo van de Pas cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: P 57787.³ He was Knight of the Garter in 1493.³