NN de Montlhéry1

F, #65011
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2,3 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     NN de Montlhéry married (?) de Plancy.4

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: XIII 145.1

Family

(?) de Plancy

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Monthléry: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106095&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Milon I de Monthléry dit de Bray: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106096&tree=LEO
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Plancy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106094&tree=LEO

Marguerite de Montlhéry1

F, #65013
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     Marguerite de Montlhéry married Manasses (?) Vcte de Sens.1

Family

Manasses (?) Vcte de Sens

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

NN de Montlhéry1

F, #65015
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     NN de Montlhéry married (?) (?) sn d'Ervy.1

      ; a daughter, m. N, sn d'Ervy.1

Family

(?) (?) sn d'Ervy

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Gui III Troussel de Montlhéry sn de Montlhéry et de Chevreuse1

M, #65017, d. after 1108
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     Gui III Troussel de Montlhéry sn de Montlhéry et de Chevreuse married Mabile/Adelaide (?)1

Gui III Troussel de Montlhéry sn de Montlhéry et de Chevreuse died after 1108.1
      ; went on First Crusade.1

Family

Mabile/Adelaide (?)

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Thibaut de Montlhéry1

M, #65019
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Renaud de Montlhéry Vcte de Troyes, Bishop of Troyes1

M, #65020, d. after 1122
FatherMilon/Miles I "le Grand" de Montlhéry seigneur de Montlhery et de Chevreuse, Vcte de Troyes1,2 b. 1035, d. a 1102
MotherLithuaise/Louise (?) Vicomtesse de Troyes1 b. c 1060, d. a 1070
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     Renaud de Montlhéry Vcte de Troyes, Bishop of Troyes died after 1122.1
     He was living in 1122.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parcorroc.htm#MilonMontlherydiedafter1102. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Hugues de Montlhéry1

M, #65021, d. after 1074
FatherMilon I de Monthléry Seigneur de la Ferte1,2 b. c 979
Last Edited2 Apr 2020
     Hugues de Montlhéry died after 1074.1
      ; Per Racines et Histoire: "Hugues de Montlhéry + après 1074 seigneur de La Ferté-Milon (~1031/43) (cité dans une charte de 1042/44) (? peut-être est-il ce Hugues de Palaiseau qui ép. Thiéline ?)2"

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Monthlery page ("Family de Monthléry"): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/mtlery.html#M2
  2. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Montlhéry Bray-sur-Seine, La Ferté-Milon, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Montlhery.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

Gui de Saulx1

M, #65022
Last Edited15 Aug 2019

Family
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Jean de Mont-Saint-Jean sn de Salmaise1

M, #65023, d. after 1183
FatherGui I de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean1 d. c 1152
Mother(?) de Saulx1
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Jean de Mont-Saint-Jean sn de Salmaise died after 1183.1
     He was living in 1183.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Emmeline de Mont-Saint-Jean1

F, #65024
FatherGui I de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean1 d. c 1152
Mother(?) de Saulx1
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Emmeline de Mont-Saint-Jean married Ponce de Blaisy.1

Family

Ponce de Blaisy

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

(?) de Mont-Saint-Jean1

F, #65026
FatherGui I de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean1 d. c 1152
Mother(?) de Saulx1
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     (?) de Mont-Saint-Jean married Jean (?) sn de Chaudenay.1

Family

Jean (?) sn de Chaudenay

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Etienne (?) Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean1

M, #65028, b. 1152, d. 1198
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited20 Aug 2020
     Etienne (?) Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean married Gilette de Noyers.1
Etienne (?) Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean was born in 1152.1
Etienne (?) Sire de Mont-Saint-Jean died in 1198.1

Family 1

Gilette de Noyers

Family 2
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXONY.htm#dauSiegbertMLotharUdoStade. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Jean dit Jerome de Mont-Saint-Jean1

M, #65030, d. 1224
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Jean dit Jerome de Mont-Saint-Jean died in 1224.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Hugues de Mont-Saint-Jean1

M, #65031, d. 1231
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Hugues de Mont-Saint-Jean died in 1231.1
      ; a canon in Autun.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny1

M, #65032, d. 1230
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny married Sibylle de Noyers
; his 2nd wife.1 Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny married Helvis (?) Dame de Diges in 1201
; his 1st wife.1
Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny died in 1230.1

Family 1

Sibylle de Noyers

Family 2

Helvis (?) Dame de Diges

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Helvis (?) Dame de Diges1

F, #65033
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Helvis (?) Dame de Diges married Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny, son of Hugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny and Elizabeth de Vergy, in 1201
; his 1st wife.1
     ; NB: There is no agreement about the ancestry of Manassès II.
     Genealogics show no parents for him.
     Med Lands shows him as the son of Manassès I (d. aft 912). Med Lands cites a charter "of "Manasses comes" witnessed by "Walo filius eius et Manasses comes iunior" [6]," and the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines which in 906 names "comes Manasses Divionensi", specifying that "Walo et alterius Manasses comes iunior" were his sons [7]." Med Lands shows no further ancestors for this Manassès I.
Med Lands cites:
[6] Chronique de Saint-Bénigne de Dijon, p. 118.
[7] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 906, MGH SS XXIII, p. 750.

     Wikipédia (Fr.) says: "Manassès serait le fils de Manassès, comte de Dijon [1], ou de Théodoric (Thierry), seigneur de Vergy, lui-même supposé fils de Warin Ier d'Auvergne [2]." Wikipédia (Fr.) cites:
[1[ « Manassès Ier de Chalon († v. 925) » [archive], dans « Burgundy duchy - Dijon », ch. 1 : « Comtes de Dijon », section A : « Comtes de Dijon », sur MedLands (consulté le 15 décembre 2017).
[2] André Duchesne, Histoire généalogique de la maison de Vergy justifiée par chartes, ti?tres, arrests, & aultres bonnes & certaines preuves, Paris, Sébastien Cramoisy, 1625 (lire en ligne [archive]), p. 23-33.

Conclusion: I don't find either of the proposed ancestries particularly convincing. However, I have now ended the line with Manassès I as father of Manassès II, and no earlier ancestors. GA Vaut.2,3,4,5

Family

Ponce de Mont-Saint-Jean Sire de Charny d. 1230

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Manassès II: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00571852&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgddijon.htm#_Toc478317745. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Manassès Ier de Chalon: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manass%C3%A8s_Ier_de_Chalon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  5. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 23 Aug 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."

Elizabeth de Mont-Saint-Jean1

F, #65035
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Elizabeth de Mont-Saint-Jean married Aimon de Marigny Constable of Bourbonnais
; her 1st husband.1 Elizabeth de Mont-Saint-Jean married Bertrand de Saudon.1

Family 1

Bertrand de Saudon d. a 1221

Family 2

Aimon de Marigny Constable of Bourbonnais

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Bertrand de Saudon1

M, #65037, d. after 1221
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Bertrand de Saudon married Elizabeth de Mont-Saint-Jean, daughter of Hugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny and Elizabeth de Vergy.1

Bertrand de Saudon died after 1221.1

Family

Elizabeth de Mont-Saint-Jean

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Agnes de Mont-Saint-Jean1

F, #65038
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Agnes de Mont-Saint-Jean married Eudes de Champlitte.1

Family

Eudes de Champlitte d. 1204

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Eudes de Champlitte1

M, #65039, d. 1204
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Eudes de Champlitte married Agnes de Mont-Saint-Jean, daughter of Hugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny and Elizabeth de Vergy.1

Eudes de Champlitte died in 1204 at Constantinople, Byzantium.1

Family

Agnes de Mont-Saint-Jean

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html

Marguerite de Mont-Saint-Jean1

F, #65040, d. after 1224
FatherHugues II de Mont-Saint-Jean seigneur de Pouillenay, de Mont-Saint-Jean, Othoisey, Chatel-Censoir, puis de Charny1 d. a 1180
MotherElizabeth de Vergy1 d. a 1196
Last Edited18 Aug 2004
     Marguerite de Mont-Saint-Jean married Daimbert de Seignelay
; her 2nd husband.1 Marguerite de Mont-Saint-Jean married Gui (?) sn de Tilchatel circa 1175
; her 1st husband.1
Marguerite de Mont-Saint-Jean died after 1224.1

Family 1

Daimbert de Seignelay

Family 2

Gui (?) sn de Tilchatel d. 1189

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Msjean page (Family de Mont-Saint-Jean): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/msjean.html