Person Page - 2256

     Tuger/Tutcherus Bold of Doncaster, Yorkshire married Isabel (?)¹

Tuger/Tutcherus Bold of Doncaster, Yorkshire died between 10 October 1494 and 12 May 1495.¹
      ; Another son of Henry Bold and Dulcia Savage was Tuger [Tutcherus] Bold of Doncaster, Yorkshire. He was brought to Yorkshire in service to the clerical Booth family, and died between 10 Oct. 1494 and 12 May 1495 and was buried in the chapel of St. Anne in St. George's Church in Doncaster. He left a wife Isabel and a daughter Ellen [Reg. Test. 5, 460b]. He was a legatee in the 1488 will of William Chauntrell, armiger [Test. Ebor. 4, 32-33]: "Volo quod Tocherus Bolde solvat c s., quos de me gratia mutui recepit, centum presbyteris, ad dicendum Placebo et Dirige cum Commendatione et Missa de Requiem pro anima mea....Tochero Bolde meam togam talarem de chamlet, cum mea tunica de viridi satana."¹

     GAV-14.

     Henry Blundell of Little Crosby, Lancashire married Agnes Bold, daughter of Sir Henry Bold Knt., circa 18 August 1503.¹

Henry Blundell of Little Crosby, Lancashire died on 9 September 1513.¹

      ; per Ravilious, oldest son and heir, citing CP V:465, sub _FitzReynold_.¹

     Euphemia de Dunbar married William Comyn of Kilbride, Lanark, son of David Comyn and Isabel de Valoins.¹

      ; [Re-sent due to display errors in original SGM message]

Wednesday, 27 October, 2004


Dear MichaelAnne, et al.,

Your recent discovery and posts re: the identification of Isabel de
Dunbar, wife of (1) Roger fitz John of Warkworth, and (2) Simon Baard
(Bayard), and of her niece Euphemia (de Dunbar) (Comyn) Murray was extremely
interesting, and I think helpful in expanding on our knowledge of these
families.

In scouting about among the English and Scots nobility (not exclusive
designations) of the period for related possibilities, I noted the as yet
unidentified Euphemia, wife of William, Earl of Ross (d. 28 Jan 1322/3).
Earl William is well known for his career, both in support of King John
Baliol to and including the Battle of Dunbar in 1296 (he was imprisoned by
the English, 1296-1303), his capture of Queen Elizabeth (de Burgh) of Scots
and her party at Tain in 1306, and his eventual reconciliation with King
Robert before 1320 [1]. Concerning his wife Euphemia, virtually all we have
had to date is the statement in Scots Peerage that

" He died at Delny 28 January 1322-34, having married a lady named
Euphemia, who warmly supported the English party. " [2]

We know that Isabel de Dunbar, wife of Roger fitz John of Warkworth, had
a granddaughter named Euphemia (later wife of Ralph de Neville, Lord Neville
of Raby - see the chart below), whose name was clearly derived from Isabel's
mother Euphemia. It seems most likely that there was a nearer relation than
a great-grandmother who served as namesake for the young Euphemia de
Clavering. I suggest that this was Euphemia, Countess of Ross, whom I
identify as most likely a daughter of Isabel de Dunbar, on the strength of
the following:

1. Euphemia, wife of William Comyn of Kilbride, was clearly of the Dunbar
family (she is identified as a niece of Isabel de Dunbar, and grand-
daughter of Euphemia le Stewart), and her marriages are known. She
could not have been the wife of the Earl of Ross, and it is highly
unlikely we would find another daughter of Patrick, Earl of Dunbar
with the same name (a rare occurrence).

2. Several names are introduced into the family of the Earl of Ross
with the marriage of William and Euphemia:

A. Hugh, derived from the Baliol family (Hugh de Baliol of Bynam
was the maternal grandfather of Roger fitz John of Warkworth).
By this chart, Hugh de Eure was an uncle of Countess Euphemia;
and Euphemia named her eldest son Hugh (the future Earl of Ross
and brother in law of King Robert I of Scots).

B. John, a popular name in the Warkworth family. Euphemia is
shown as a granddaughter of John fitz Robert of Warkworth; her
nephew was Sir John de Clavering, whose name was not derived
from his mother's family (la Zouche). It is also possible that
John was named in part for Euphemia's alleged cousin John
Baliol, King of Scots, to whom William of Ross was so loyal.

C. Isabella, the name of Euphemia's probable mother Isabel de
Dunbar as shown below.

3. William, Earl of Ross was clearly aligned with the party of John
Baliol, and that of the Comyns. A grandson of William Comyn, Earl
of Buchan (d. 1233), he was closely related to the later. In
addition to his own career supporting John Baliol prior to
Bannockburn, his 2nd son John Ross was married to Margaret Comyn,
the younger coheiress of John Comyn, Earl of Buchan (daughter of
his brother Sir Alexander Comyn and not of the Earl, an error in
SP VII:235). If Euphemia was the daughter of Roger fitz John
and Isabel de Dunbar as shown, this would further explain
William's adherence to the Baliol party.

The following chart reflects the known and conjectured relationships
discussed above (the conjectured connections shown by broken
lines: _ _ _ _ _ _).



Robert fitz = Margaret HUGH de Baliol = CECILY de
Roger I de Chesney d. 1229 I Fontaines
I ____________________I__
I I I
Patrick = EUPHEMIA JOHN fitz = Ada JOHN de = Devorguilla
E of I Stewart Robert I de Baliol Baliol I of Galloway
Dunbar I _________I______ ______________I____________
______I_____ I I I I I I I I
I I I I I I I I I I
Patrick ISABEL = Roger fitz HUGH HUGH JOHN CECILY
E of de Dunbar I John of de dsp King
Dunbar I Warkworth Eure of Scots
= Cecilia I
I I_____________________________
_I________ _ _ _ _ ________________I _ _ _ _
I I I I I
Patrick John EUPHEMIA Robert fitz Roger EUPHEMIA = William
E of = 1)William of Warkworth d. 1310 I E of Ross
Dunbar Comyn of 1st Lord FitzRoger I d. 1322/3
Kilbride = Margery la Zouche I
I I
__________________I__ _____________________I____________
I I I I I I I
Sir JOHN de Clavering EUPHEMIA HUGH JOHN = ISABELLA Dorothea I
Lord Clavering = Ralph de E of Margaret affianced _____I
d. bef 1331/2 Neville of Ross Comyn to Edward I
Raby, d. 1331 k.1333 Bruce Walter
I I
I I
V V


Certainly documentation supporting (or disputing) the above, e.g.
charter references to relationships between the Earl of Ross' family and
those of Baliol or Warkworth, would go far in proving or disproving the
claimed connection.

Should anyone have such relevant documentation, comment or criticism,
that would be appreciated.

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] SP VII:233-235, sub _The Ancient Earls of Ross_ .

[2] Ibid. p. 235, cites "Cal. Doc. Scot., ii. No. 920; also see Stevenson's
Hist. Docs., ii."¹

     Euphemia (?) married William (?) 3rd Earl of Ross, son of William (?) 2nd Earl of Ross and Jean Comyn,
; her 1st husband.^3,4,1 Euphemia (?) married Sir Andrew Murray
; her 2nd husband.⁴
      ;      Wednesday, 27 October, 2004
     Dear MichaelAnne, et al.,
     Your recent discovery and posts re: the identification of Isabel de Dunbar, wife of (1) Roger fitz John of Warkworth, and (2) Simon Baard (Bayard), and of her niece Euphemia (de Dunbar) (Comyn) Murray was extremely interesting, and I think helpful in expanding on our knowledge of these families.
     In scouting about among the English and Scots nobility (not exclusive designations) of the period for related possibilities, I noted the as yet unidentified Euphemia, wife of William, Earl of Ross (d. 28 Jan 1322/3). Earl William is well known for his career, both in support of King John Baliol to and including the Battle of Dunbar in 1296 (he was imprisoned by the English, 1296-1303), his capture of Queen Elizabeth (de Burgh) of Scots and her party at Tain in 1306, and his eventual reconciliation with King Robert before 1320 [1]. Concerning his wife Euphemia, virtually all we have
had to date is the statement in Scots Peerage that " He died at Delny 28 January 1322-34, having married a lady named Euphemia, who warmly supported the English party. " [2]
     We know that Isabel de Dunbar, wife of Roger fitz John of Warkworth, had a granddaughter named Euphemia (later wife of Ralph de Neville, Lord Neville of Raby - see the chart below), whose name was clearly derived from Isabel's mother Euphemia. It seems most likely that there was a nearer relation than a great-grandmother who served as namesake for the young Euphemia de Clavering. I suggest that this was Euphemia, Countess of Ross, whom I identify as most likely a daughter of Isabel de Dunbar, on the strength of the following:
      1. Euphemia, wife of William Comyn of Kilbride, was clearly of the Dunbar family (she is identified as a niece of Isabel de Dunbar, and grand-daughter of Euphemia le Stewart), and her marriages are known. She could not have been the wife of the Earl of Ross, and it is highly unlikely we would find another daughter of Patrick, Earl of Dunbar with the same name (a rare occurrence).
     2. Several names are introduced into the family of the Earl of Ross with the marriage of William and Euphemia:
     A. Hugh, derived from the Baliol family (Hugh de Baliol of Bynam was the maternal grandfather of Roger fitz John of Warkworth). By this chart, Hugh de Eure was an uncle of Countess Euphemia; and Euphemia named her eldest son Hugh (the future Earl of Ross and brother in law of King Robert I of Scots).
     B. John, a popular name in the Warkworth family. Euphemia is shown as a granddaughter of John fitz Robert of Warkworth; her nephew was Sir John de Clavering, whose name was not derived from his mother's family (la Zouche). It is also possible that John was named in part for Euphemia's alleged cousin John Baliol, King of Scots, to whom William of Ross was so loyal.
     C. Isabella, the name of Euphemia's probable mother Isabel de Dunbar as shown below.
     3. William, Earl of Ross was clearly aligned with the party of John Baliol, and that of the Comyns. A grandson of William Comyn, Earl of Buchan (d. 1233), he was closely related to the later. In addition to his own career supporting John Baliol prior to Bannockburn, his 2nd son John Ross was married to Margaret Comyn, the younger coheiress of John Comyn, Earl of Buchan (daughter of his brother Sir Alexander Comyn and not of the Earl, an error in SP VII:235). If Euphemia was the daughter of Roger fitz John and Isabel de Dunbar as shown, this would further explain William's adherence to the Baliol party.
     The following chart reflects the known and conjectured relationships
discussed above (the conjectured connections shown by broken
lines: _ _ _ _ _ _).



Robert fitz = Margaret HUGH de Baliol = CECILY de
Roger I de Chesney d. 1229 I Fontaines
I ____________________I__
I I I
Patrick = EUPHEMIA JOHN fitz = Ada JOHN de = Devorguilla
E of I Stewart Robert I de Baliol Baliol I of Galloway
Dunbar I _________I______ ______________I____________
______I_____ I I I I I I I I
I I I I I I I I I I
Patrick ISABEL = Roger fitz HUGH HUGH JOHN CECILY
E of de Dunbar I John of de dsp King
Dunbar I Warkworth Eure of Scots
= Cecilia I
I I_____________________________
_I________ _ _ _ _ ________________I _ _ _ _
I I I I I
Patrick John EUPHEMIA Robert fitz Roger EUPHEMIA = William
E of = 1)William of Warkworth d. 1310 I E of Ross
Dunbar Comyn of 1st Lord FitzRoger I d. 1322/3
Kilbride = Margery la Zouche I
I I
__________________I__ _____________________I____________
I I I I I I I
Sir JOHN de Clavering EUPHEMIA HUGH JOHN = ISABELLA Dorothea I
Lord Clavering = Ralph de E of Margaret affianced _____I
d. bef 1331/2 Neville of Ross Comyn to Edward I
Raby, d. 1331 k.1333 Bruce Walter
I I
I I
V V

     Certainly documentation supporting (or disputing) the above, e.g. charter references to relationships between the Earl of Ross' family and those of Baliol or Warkworth, would go far in proving or disproving the claimed connection.
     Should anyone have such relevant documentation, comment or criticism, that would be appreciated.
     Cheers, John *
     NOTES
     [1] SP VII:233-235, sub _The Ancient Earls of Ross_ .
     [2] Ibid. p. 235, cites "Cal. Doc. Scot., ii. No. 920; also see Stevenson's
Hist. Docs., ii."³

; Ravilious [2004]hypothesizes that this Euphemia was the dau. of Isabel de Dunbar and Roger fitz John of Warkworth. Genealogics says that she was the dau. of Hugh de Barclay, Justiciar of Lothian, citing:
     1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol I 190
     2. The Ancestry of Euphemia, Cts of Ross, Heraldry as Genealogical Evidence, The Scottish Genealogist, March 2008., Ravilious, John Paul.
Vol. LV, No 1, pp 33-38
It would seem that Ravilious changed his opinion between 2004 and 2008.^3,1,5 Euphemia (?) was also known as Euphemia Fitz Roger.³

     John fitz William married Margaret Comyn.¹

     Richard de Brus died in 1287.²

     Joan de Cornhill married Hugh de Neville of Hallingbury, Essex.

     Robert III de Septvans married Isabel (?)

Robert III de Septvans died before 20 January 1253.²

     Alice Longford married Sir Robert Neville Knt., of Rolleston, Nottinghamshire, son of Sir William Neville Knt., of Rolleston, Nottinghamshire and Elisabeth Fencote, in 1402
; date of fine.¹
     GAV-17.

     Sir John de Cobham of Blackborough married Anne Bollay.²

     Margaret Baynard married Sir Henry de Cobham of Roundall and Alington, son of John de Cobham Sheriff of Kent and (?) Fitz Benedict,
; his 1st wife.¹
Margaret Baynard died before 13 August 1295; dsp.¹
      ; Margaret Baynard had an heir Sir Thomas de Filiol, aged 26, (son of Baldwin de Filiol), see Knights of Edward I, ed. Rev, C Moor, The Harleian Society, (1929), Vol. 2, p 26.¹

     Robert II de Septvans married Maud (?)

     Maud (?) married Robert II de Septvans.

     Isabel (?) married Robert III de Septvans, son of Robert II de Septvans and Maud (?).

     Sir Robert IV de Septvans was born circa 1250.¹
Sir Robert IV de Septvans died before 20 September 1306.¹

     Margaret de Cobham died on 21 July 1357.¹