Robert III d'Auvergne Comte d'Auvergne1

M, #63121, d. circa 1145
FatherGuillaume VI d'Auvergne Comte d'Auvergne et de Velay1,2 d. c 1136
MotherEmma de Hauteville3 b. c 1063, d. a 1119
Last Edited25 Sep 2020
     Robert III d'Auvergne Comte d'Auvergne died circa 1145.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 732.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert III: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164581&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/AUVERGNE.htm#GuillaumeVIAuvergnedied1136. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/TOULOUSE.htm#RaymondIVdied1105B
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Guillaume VII le jeune: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00048730&tree=LEO

Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont1

M, #63123, d. 17 October 1239
FatherDauphin (?) Comte de Clermont1,2 d. 22 Mar 1235
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont married Isabeau de Montlucon.3,1 Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont married Huguette (?) Dame de Chamalières; his 1st wife.4 Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont married Philippa (?); his 3rd wife?5
Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont died on 17 October 1239.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1

Family 1

Philippa (?) d. a 1241

Isabeau de Montlucon1

F, #63124, d. after 1212
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     Isabeau de Montlucon married Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont, son of Dauphin (?) Comte de Clermont.1,2
Isabeau de Montlucon died after 1212.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1 She was living in 1212.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Isabeau de Montlucon: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164566&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Guillaume II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164564&tree=LEO

Huguette (?) Dame de Chamalières1

F, #63125, d. after 1196
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     Huguette (?) Dame de Chamalières married Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont, son of Dauphin (?) Comte de Clermont; his 1st wife.1
Huguette (?) Dame de Chamalières died after 1196.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1 She was living in 1196.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Huguette: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164565&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164568&tree=LEO

Robert I de Clermont Dauphin d'Auvergne, Comte de Clermont1,2

M, #63126, d. 12 April 1262
FatherGuillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont1 d. 17 Oct 1239
MotherHuguette (?) Dame de Chamalières1 d. a 1196
Last Edited25 Sep 2020
     Robert I de Clermont Dauphin d'Auvergne, Comte de Clermont married Alesie de Ventadour, daughter of Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour and Marie/Marguerite de Turenne, in May 1238; her 2nd husband.3,2
Robert I de Clermont Dauphin d'Auvergne, Comte de Clermont died on 12 April 1262.1,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1

Family

Alesie de Ventadour d. b Nov 1260
Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164568&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alesie de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164569&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert II: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164570&tree=LEO

Alesie de Ventadour1,2

F, #63127, d. before November 1260
FatherEbles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour3,1,2
MotherMarie/Marguerite de Turenne1,4,2 d. a 1221
Last Edited25 Sep 2020
     Alesie de Ventadour married Guillaume de Mercoeur seigneur de Gerzat et Planchat, son of Béraud V de Mercoeur seigneur de Mercoeur, vicomte de Gévaudan, Connétable d’Auvergne and Alix de Chamalières-sur-Loire, before 1234; her 1st husband.2,5 Alesie de Ventadour married Robert I de Clermont Dauphin d'Auvergne, Comte de Clermont, son of Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont and Huguette (?) Dame de Chamalières, in May 1238; her 2nd husband.1,2
Alesie de Ventadour died before November 1260.1
     ; Alesie; 1m: Guillaume de Mercoeur (+1238); 2m: Robert I Dauphin d'Auvergne, Cte de Clermont (+1262.)2

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1

; Per Racines et Histoire (Mercoeur): “Guillaume de Mercoeur + dès 1238 seigneur de Gerzat et Planchat (63)
     ép. 1) dès 1234 Alésie de Ventadour + avant 11/1250 (17/05 ?) (fille d’Ebles V, vicomte de Ventadour, et de Marie de Turenne ; ép. 2) dès 05/1238 Robert 1er, comte de Clermont (63), Dauphin d’Auvergne + 12/04/1262 + 12/04/1262 (fils de Guillaume II, comte de Clermont, et d’Huguette de Chamaliè”.5

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alesie de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164569&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles V de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196966&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Marguerite (Marie) de Turenne: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196967&tree=LEO
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, 1ère Maison deMercoeur, p. 5: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Mercoeur.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert II: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164570&tree=LEO

Philippa (?)1

F, #63128, d. after 1241
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     Philippa (?) married Guillaume II (?) Dauphin et Comte de Clermont, son of Dauphin (?) Comte de Clermont; his 3rd wife?1
Philippa (?) died after 1241.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 733.1 She was living in 1241.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Philippa: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164567&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.

Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1,2

M, #63129, d. 1174
FatherEbles III de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1,2,3,4 d. 1170
MotherAdelais de Montpellier1,2
Last Edited24 Jun 2020
     Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour married Sibylle de Faye, daughter of Raoul (?) de Chattelerault, before 1174.5,1,2
Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour died in 1174.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 765.1

; Vcte Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour; m.before 1174 Sibylle, dau.of Raoul de Chatellerault.2

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196968&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139547&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LIMOUSIN.htm#EblesIIIVentadourdied1170. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sibylle de Faye: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196969&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles V de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196966&tree=LEO

Sibylle de Faye1

F, #63130
FatherRaoul (?) de Chattelerault2
Last Edited24 Oct 2004
     Sibylle de Faye married Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour, son of Ebles III de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour and Adelais de Montpellier, before 1174.1,3,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 765.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sibylle de Faye: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196969&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196968&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles V de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196966&tree=LEO

Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1,2

M, #63131
FatherEbles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1 d. 1174
MotherSibylle de Faye1,2
Last Edited24 Oct 2004
     Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour married Marie (?) de Limoges, daughter of Boson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges and Sarah de Dunstanville; his 1st wife.3,1,2 Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour married Marie/Marguerite de Turenne, daughter of Raymond III de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne and Helie de Severac; his 2nd wife.4,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 765.1

; Vcte Ebles V de Ventadour; 1m: Marie de Limoges; 2m: Marguerite de Turenne; all kids were by 2m.2 Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour was living in 1214.1

Family 2

Marie/Marguerite de Turenne d. a 1221
Children

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles V de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196966&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Marie de Limoges: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00330788&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Marguerite (Marie) de Turenne: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196967&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alesie de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164569&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles VI de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196964&tree=LEO

Marie (?) de Limoges1,2

F, #63132
FatherBoson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges1,2,3 d. a Jul 1199
MotherSarah de Dunstanville1,4,2 d. 1206
Last Edited23 Oct 2004
     Marie (?) de Limoges married Ebles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour, son of Ebles IV dit Archambaud de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour and Sibylle de Faye; his 1st wife.1,5,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 765.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Marie de Limoges: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00330788&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Boson 'Adémar V': http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139542&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sarah de Dunstanville: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139543&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles V de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196966&tree=LEO

Ebles VI de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1,2

M, #63133, b. circa 1220, d. before 12 June 1265
FatherEbles V de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour1,2
MotherMarie/Marguerite de Turenne1,2 d. a 1221
Last Edited24 Oct 2004
     Ebles VI de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour married Dauphine (?) de la Tour.2 Ebles VI de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour was born circa 1220.1
Ebles VI de Ventadour Vicomte de Ventadour died before 12 June 1265.1,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 765.1

; Vcte Ebles VI de Ventadour, +ca 1265; m.Dauphine de la Tour; for their descendants see http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul3.html.2 He was He became a crusader in 1249.1

Family

Dauphine (?) de la Tour

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ebles VI de Ventadour: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00196964&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html

Gui de Severac1

M, #63134
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 766.1

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gui de Severac: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197004&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.

Raymond III de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne1,2

M, #63135, d. before 12 June 1219
FatherRaymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne4,2 b. a 19 Jun 1143, d. 1191
MotherHelie (?) de Castelnau-de-Bretenoux3,2 d. a 1190
Last Edited24 Jun 2020
     Raymond III de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne married Helie de Severac, daughter of Gui de Severac.1,5,2
Raymond III de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne died before 12 June 1219.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 766.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raymond III: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197002&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hélie de Castelnau: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197001&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raymond II Posthumus: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197000&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hélie de Severac: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197003&tree=LEO

Helie (?) de Castelnau-de-Bretenoux1,2

F, #63136, d. after 1190
FatherBernard (?) Sire de Castelnau3
Last Edited12 Apr 2009
     Helie (?) de Castelnau-de-Bretenoux married Raymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne, son of Boson II de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne and Eustorgie d'Anduze.4,1,5
Helie (?) de Castelnau-de-Bretenoux died after 1190.1
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 766.1 She was living in 1190.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hélie de Castelnau: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197001&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/La_Marche-Perigord.pdf, p.8. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Bernard: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197005&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raymond II Posthumus: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197000&tree=LEO
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html

Bernard (?) Sire de Castelnau1

M, #63137
Last Edited2 Apr 2004
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 766.1

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Bernard: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197005&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.

Raymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne1,2

M, #63138, b. after 19 June 1143, d. 1191
FatherBoson II de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne1,2 d. 19 Jun 1143
MotherEustorgie d'Anduze1,2 b. bt 1115 - 1128, d. a 1174
Last Edited24 Jun 2020
     Raymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne married Helie (?) de Castelnau-de-Bretenoux, daughter of Bernard (?) Sire de Castelnau.1,3,2 Raymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne was born after 19 June 1143.1
Raymond II 'Posthumus' de Turenne Vicomte de Turenne died in 1191 at Akkon, Palestine.1,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 766.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raymond II Posthumus: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197000&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Toulouse 2 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/toulouse/toul2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hélie de Castelnau: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197001&tree=LEO
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/La_Marche-Perigord.pdf, p.8. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

Friedrich II von Zollern Graf von Zollern1,2

M, #63139, d. after 1152
FatherFriedrich I von Zollern Graf von Zollern1,3,2 d. 1125
MotherUdilhild von Urach1,4 d. c 11 Apr 1134
Last Edited13 Nov 2020
     Friedrich II von Zollern Graf von Zollern died after 1152.1,3
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "FRIEDRICH [II] von Zollern (-after [1152]). A 13th century genealogy names (in order) "Burchardum, Egenonem, Fridericum et Gottfridum" as the four sons of "Burchardus comes de Zolre"[1292]. Graf von Zollern. "…Burcardo, Eginone, Gotfrido, Friderico comitibus de Zolr…" signed the charter dated [1134/37] which records the foundation of Kloster Salem[1293]. The History of Salem Monastery lists those present at a court of "duce Friderico", including "Burcardo, Eginone, Gotfrido, Friderico comitibus de Zolr", undated but dateable to [1152][1294]. The order in which the brothers are listed in these two sources, although not entirely consistent with each other, suggests that Friedrich [II] was not the oldest brother.
     "m ---. The name of Friedrich's wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[1292] Cod Giessensis Nr. 176, fol. 234, included as Genealogiæ Comitum et Marchionum sæc XII et XIII, in MGH SS XXIV, p. 78.
[1293] Salem (1881), p. 26.
[1294] Historia Brevis Monasterii Salemitani 11, MGH SS XXIV, p. 646.3

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern page 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WURTTEMBERG.htm#_Toc514509839. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WURTTEMBERG.htm#FriedrichIdiedafter1200
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Udihild von Urach: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00060589&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.

Konrad I (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg1,2

M, #63140, d. 30 June 1261
FatherFriedrich I/III (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg1,2,3 d. 1210
MotherSophie von Raabs Burggravine von Nürnberg1,2 d. 1218
Last Edited17 Jan 2020
     Konrad I (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg married Adelheid von Frontenhausen.4,1,2,5
Konrad I (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg died on 30 June 1261.1,2
     ; Bggf Konrad I von Nürnberg (1227-61), +1260/1; m.NN (possibly a dau.of Friedrich II, Gf von Leiningen u.Saarbrücken)/ Adelaide von Frontenhausen (*ca 1190 +ca 1245.)1

; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. Nachkommen Gorms des Alten 1978. , S. Otto Brenner, Reference: 509
2. Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, 4 volumes, Marburg, 1953, 1975., W. K. Prinz von Isenburg, Reference: I 60
3. Genealogisches Handbuch erloschener böhmischer Herrenstandsfamilien Neustadt an der Aisch, 1973, Roman Freiherr von Procházka, Reference: 174.2 He was Burggraf von Nürnberg between 1227 and 1261.1

Family

Adelheid von Frontenhausen b. c 1190, d. c 1245
Children

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern page 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Graf Konrad I von Zollern: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00060586&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WURTTEMBERG.htm#FriedrichIIdied12511255B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelheid von Frontenhausen: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00152827&tree=LEO
  5. [S2304] Leo van de Pas, "van de Pas email 8 May 2009: "Who was his wife?"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 8 May 2009, per van de pas (5/8/2009). Hereinafter cited as "van de Pas email 8 May 2009."
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Justina (Adelheid?) von Zollern: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00064094&tree=LEO

Adelheid von Frontenhausen1

F, #63141, b. circa 1190, d. circa 1245
Last Edited19 Jun 2009
     Adelheid von Frontenhausen married Konrad I (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg, son of Friedrich I/III (?) Graf von Zollern, Burggraf von Nürnberg and Sophie von Raabs Burggravine von Nürnberg.1,2,3,4 Adelheid von Frontenhausen was born circa 1190.2
Adelheid von Frontenhausen died circa 1245.2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Erzaehlende Stammtafeln zur Europaischen Geschichte I Frankfurt am Main 1994, Andreas Thiele.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelheid von Frontenhausen: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00152827&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern page 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Graf Konrad I von Zollern: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00060586&tree=LEO
  4. [S2304] Leo van de Pas, "van de Pas email 8 May 2009: "Who was his wife?"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 8 May 2009, per van de pas (5/8/2009). Hereinafter cited as "van de Pas email 8 May 2009."
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Justina (Adelheid?) von Zollern: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00064094&tree=LEO

Alexandra (?) of Lithuania1,2

F, #63142, b. circa 1365, d. 19 June 1434
FatherAlgirdas/Olgierd (?) Grand Duke of Lithuania1,3,2 b. c 1296, d. 24 May 1377
MotherUliana Alexandrovna (?) of Tver1,2 b. c Feb 1325, d. 1392
Last Edited25 May 2008
     Alexandra (?) of Lithuania was born circa 1365.1 She married Ziemowit IV (?) Duke of Mazovia, Prince of Plock and Kujawia, son of Ziemowit III "Starszy" (?) Duke of Mazowia and Euphemia (?) von Troppau-Ratibor, in 1388; Leo van de Pas says m. 1388; Jagelo page says m. 1387; Piast 3 page says m. ca 1387.1,4,2,5
Alexandra (?) of Lithuania died on 19 June 1434.1,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, 4 volumes, Marburg, 1953, 1975., W. K. Prinz von Isenburg, Reference: II 87
2. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: II 125.1

; [2m.] Alexandra, +19.6.1434; m.1387 Ziemovit IV Piast (*before 1357, +30.4.1426.)2

Family

Ziemowit IV (?) Duke of Mazovia, Prince of Plock and Kujawia b. b 1352, d. 30 Apr 1426
Children

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alexandra of Lithuania: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030731&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Jagelo page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/jagelo/jagelo.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Olgierd: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00081641&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ziemowit IV: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030730&tree=LEO
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Piast 3 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/piast/piast3.html
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Euphemia of Masovia: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00174628&tree=LEO
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Maria of Masovia: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00029889&tree=LEO

Friedrich IV (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg1

M, #63143, b. 1287, d. 1332
FatherFriedrich III (?) Bggf von Nurnberg1 b. c 1220, d. 14 Aug 1297
MotherHelene (?) of Saxony1,2 d. 12 Jun 1309
Last Edited7 Dec 2004
     Friedrich IV (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg was born in 1287.1 He married Margarete (?) von Görz before 2 August 1307.1
Friedrich IV (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg died in 1332.1
     ; Bggf Friedrich IV von Nürnberg (1297-1332), *1287, +1332, bur Heilsbronn; m.before 2.8.1307 Margarete von Görz (+1348, bur Birkenfeld.)1

; Burggraf von Nürnberg.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern page 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Helene of Saxony: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00029986&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Burggräfin Helene von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030011&tree=LEO
  4. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Hohenz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Burggraf Albrecht von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00122010&tree=LEO

Margarete (?) von Görz1

F, #63144, d. 1348
Last Edited7 Dec 2004
     Margarete (?) von Görz married Friedrich IV (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg, son of Friedrich III (?) Bggf von Nurnberg and Helene (?) of Saxony, before 2 August 1307.1
Margarete (?) von Görz died in 1348.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern page 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Burggräfin Helene von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030011&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Hohenz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Burggraf Albrecht von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00122010&tree=LEO

Margarete (?) of Luxemburg1,2

F, #63145, b. 29 September 1373, d. 4 June 1410
FatherCharles IV de Luxembourg (?) King of Bohemia, Holy Roman Emperor1,3,2 b. 14 May 1316, d. 29 Nov 1378
MotherElizabeth (?) von Pommern1,4,2 b. 1347, d. 14 Feb 1393
Last Edited4 Aug 2004
     Margarete (?) of Luxemburg was born on 29 September 1373.1,2 She married Johann III (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg, son of Friedrich V (?) Burggraf von Nurnberg and Elisabeth (?) von Meissen, before 25 May 1381.5,1,2
Margarete (?) of Luxemburg died on 4 June 1410 at age 36; buried in Ofen.1,2
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Nachkommen Gorms des Alten 1978. , S. Otto Brenner, Reference: 3033.2

Family

Johann III (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg b. c 1369, d. 11 Jun 1420
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 9 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg9.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Margarete of Bohemia: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020304&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Karl IV: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00007881&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elisabeth von Pommern: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020287&tree=LEO
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elisabeth von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020307&tree=LEO

Johann III (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg1

M, #63146, b. circa 1369, d. 11 June 1420
FatherFriedrich V (?) Burggraf von Nurnberg1 b. b 3 Mar 1333, d. 21 Jan 1398
MotherElisabeth (?) von Meissen1,2 b. 22 Nov 1329, d. 21 Apr 1375
Last Edited19 Nov 2004
     Johann III (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg was born circa 1369.1 He married Margarete (?) of Luxemburg, daughter of Charles IV de Luxembourg (?) King of Bohemia, Holy Roman Emperor and Elizabeth (?) von Pommern, before 25 May 1381.1,3,4
Johann III (?) Burggraf von Nürnberg died on 11 June 1420 at Plassenburg, Germany (now); buried in Heilsbronn.1
     ; Burggraf von Nürnberg.1

Family

Margarete (?) of Luxemburg b. 29 Sep 1373, d. 4 Jun 1410
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elisabeth von Meissen: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00013482&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 9 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg9.html
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Margarete of Bohemia: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020304&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Elisabeth von Nürnberg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020307&tree=LEO

Friedrich (?) Graf von Zollern, Graf von Hohenberg1

M, #63147, d. after 11 April 1195
FatherBurchard II von Zollern Graf von Zollern1,2 d. bt 1150 - 1155
Last Edited19 Jan 2020
     Friedrich (?) Graf von Zollern, Graf von Hohenberg died after 11 April 1195.1,2
     ; Per Med Lands: "FRIEDRICH von Zollern (-after 11 Apr 1195). A 13th century genealogy names "Burchardum et Fridericum comites de Hohenburch" as sons of "Burchardum [filium Burchardi comitis de Zolre]" & his wife[544]. Graf von Zollern. Graf von Hohenberg. "…Comes Burcardus de Hohenberg et frater suus comes Fridericus…" witnessed a charter of Emperor Friedrich I dated 1179[545]. “...Burchardus comes de Hochenberc et frater eius comes Fridericus...” witnessed the charter dated 1185 under which Friedrich Duke of Swabia granted protection to Salem monastery[546]. “Fredericus comes de Hohenberc” witnessed the charter dated 11 Apr 1195 under which Konrad Duke of Swabia donated property to Kloster Salem[547]."
Med Lands cites:
[544] Cod Giessensis Nr. 176, fol. 234, included as Genealogiæ Comitum et Marchionum sæc XII et XIII, in MGH SS XXIV, p. 78.
[545] Monumenta Hohenbergica 2, p. 1.
[546] Herrgott (1737), Vol. II, Pars 1, CCXLVI, p. 196.
[547] Stälin (1847), Teil II, p. 402.2

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Hohenzollern 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hohz/hohenz1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WURTTEMBERG.htm#BUrchardIIdiedafter1150B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Sir John de la Roche1

M, #63148, d. 1375
FatherSir Robert de la Roche1
Last Edited4 Apr 2004
     Sir John de la Roche married Isabel de Bromwich.1
Sir John de la Roche died in 1375.1
     ; Some time ago, there was an extended discussion regarding Isabel granddaughter of Anselm (1345) and her husband, William de Peto. William died without issue, and Isabel subsequently married Sir John de la Roche.

Sir John died in 1375 and his son, Thomas, his elder brother John having died about 1382, also inherited lands in Wales and Ireland, and ,on his death, left two daughters, of whom the younger, Ellen, wife of Sir Edmund Ferrers of Chartley, Staffs., received Castle Bromwich.

Weis 7th edition says that Ellen Roche [widow], daughter of Thomas Roche of Castle Bromwich, co. Worcs., d. 4 Nov 1440. She m. Sir Edmund Ferrers of Chartley and (2) as first wife, Sir Philip Chetwynd.

The remainder of Ellen de la Roche's ancestry is found in the Victoria County History of the County of Warwick, Vol. 4, edited by L. F. Salzmanpp. 252-253 sub the manor of Nether Whitacre in the parish of Nether Whitacre.

Another contributor observed thet her parents were Thomas de la Roche and Elizabeth Bermingham (spelled Birmingham and Bermingham). But Complete Peerage (CP), XI:44 (Roche), seemed to indicate otherwise:

"(i) Thomas de la Roche...2nd but 1st surv s. of Sir John de la Roche (by his wife Isabel de Bromwich), who d. 1376, s. and h. of Sir Robert de la Roche, s. and h. of Sir David de la Roche of Langwm, by Joan de la Roche, sister of William de la Roche. The representation was divided, on the death of (i), between his two sisters, Ellen who m. Edmund Ferrers of Chartley...."

If the Thomas de la Roche named in (i) above was indeed the brother of Ellen, that would make her parents Sir John and Isabel de Bromwich, not Thomas and Elizabeth de Bermingham.

BUT according to Faris II (p. 138), her parents were Thomas de la Roche of Castle Bromwich, co. Warwick, and Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John Birmingham of Birmingham, co. Warwick, etc. Faris says she died 4 Nov.1440.

Someone else suggested this could be sorted by consulting information on the de la Roche family in Victoria County History of the County of Warwick, Vol. 4, edited by L.F. Salzman, published 1947, pg. 44, sub the manor of Castle Bromwich in the parish of Castle Bromwich, co. Warwick. Other information appears in the same volume regarding Roche family land in the parish of Nether Whitacre.

So which is correct - does anyone know????

The final word from another participant was: As to the Roches, see VCH Warks 4:44 and W Dugdale *The Antiquities of Warwickshire* Vol.II (London, 1730), p.886.1

Citations

  1. [S1606] Jim Roache, "Roache email 3 Apr 2004 "Ellen de la Roche"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 3 Apr 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Roache email 3 Apr 2004."

Isabel de Bromwich1

F, #63149
Last Edited4 Apr 2004
     Isabel de Bromwich married Sir John de la Roche, son of Sir Robert de la Roche.1 Isabel de Bromwich married William de Peto; her 1st husband.1
     ; Some time ago, there was an extended discussion regarding Isabel granddaughter of Anselm (1345) and her husband, William de Peto. William died without issue, and Isabel subsequently married Sir John de la Roche.

Sir John died in 1375 and his son, Thomas, his elder brother John having died about 1382, also inherited lands in Wales and Ireland, and ,on his death, left two daughters, of whom the younger, Ellen, wife of Sir Edmund Ferrers of Chartley, Staffs., received Castle Bromwich.

Weis 7th edition says that Ellen Roche [widow], daughter of Thomas Roche of Castle Bromwich, co. Worcs., d. 4 Nov 1440. She m. Sir Edmund Ferrers of Chartley and (2) as first wife, Sir Philip Chetwynd.

The remainder of Ellen de la Roche's ancestry is found in the Victoria County History of the County of Warwick, Vol. 4, edited by L. F. Salzmanpp. 252-253 sub the manor of Nether Whitacre in the parish of Nether Whitacre.

Another contributor observed thet her parents were Thomas de la Roche and Elizabeth Bermingham (spelled Birmingham and Bermingham). But Complete Peerage (CP), XI:44 (Roche), seemed to indicate otherwise:

"(i) Thomas de la Roche...2nd but 1st surv s. of Sir John de la Roche (by his wife Isabel de Bromwich), who d. 1376, s. and h. of Sir Robert de la Roche, s. and h. of Sir David de la Roche of Langwm, by Joan de la Roche, sister of William de la Roche. The representation was divided, on the death of (i), between his two sisters, Ellen who m. Edmund Ferrers of Chartley...."

If the Thomas de la Roche named in (i) above was indeed the brother of Ellen, that would make her parents Sir John and Isabel de Bromwich, not Thomas and Elizabeth de Bermingham.

BUT according to Faris II (p. 138), her parents were Thomas de la Roche of Castle Bromwich, co. Warwick, and Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John Birmingham of Birmingham, co. Warwick, etc. Faris says she died 4 Nov.1440.

Someone else suggested this could be sorted by consulting information on the de la Roche family in Victoria County History of the County of Warwick, Vol. 4, edited by L.F. Salzman, published 1947, pg. 44, sub the manor of Castle Bromwich in the parish of Castle Bromwich, co. Warwick. Other information appears in the same volume regarding Roche family land in the parish of Nether Whitacre.

So which is correct - does anyone know????

The final word from another participant was: As to the Roches, see VCH Warks 4:44 and W Dugdale *The Antiquities of Warwickshire* Vol.II (London, 1730), p.886.1

Family 1

William de Peto

Citations

  1. [S1606] Jim Roache, "Roache email 3 Apr 2004 "Ellen de la Roche"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 3 Apr 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Roache email 3 Apr 2004."