Person Page - 1861

     Sarah de Dunstanville married Boson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges, son of Adémar IV de Comborn Vicomte de Limoges and Marguerite de Turenne, in 1156 at Bordeaux, Departement de la Gironde, Aquitaine, France (now).^1,6,7

Sarah de Dunstanville died in 1206.²
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 769
2. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales Edinburgh, 1977., Gerald Paget, Reference: 1 12.² Sarah de Dunstanville was also known as Sarra de Crnouailles.⁸

     Boson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges married Sarah de Dunstanville, daughter of Reynold/Rainald "de Dunstanville" (?) Earl of Cornwall and Beatrice/Mabel Fitz William, in 1156 at Bordeaux, Departement de la Gironde, Aquitaine, France (now).^1,2,3

Boson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges died after July 1199.^2,3
      ; Vcte Boson dit Ademar V de Limoges, +1199; m.ca 1156 Sarah, dau.of Reginald de Dunstanville, Earl of Cornwall.³

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 769.² Boson 'Adémar V' (?) Viscount de Limoges was also known as Aimar VI (?) Vicomte de Limoges.⁷

     Reginald de Dunstanville died in 1175.^1,2

     The Hon., Sir James Elphinstone of Innernochtie died in 1612.¹

     Clemence de Vere married VeilVitalis Engaine, son of Richard II Engaine Lord of Blatherwick, Northants and Sara de Chesney Lady of Colne,
; his 1st wife, her 2nd husband.¹ Clemence de Vere married Sir Jordan de Sackville
; her 1st husband.¹
      ; "Clemence, dau. of Aubrey, Earl of Oxford, widow of Sir Jordan de Sackville."¹

     Henry Engaine died in 1271; died unmarried, was s. by his brother.¹
      ; "Henry Engaine, who in the 42nd Henry III [1257/8] had a military summons to march against the Welsh: but afterwards taking part with the barons, he was involved in the defeat at Evesham, and had his lands sequestered. They were son restored, however, under the Dictum of Kenilworth. This feudal lord never married, and dying in 1271, was s. by his brother, John Engain..."¹

     Richard Engaine died in 1216.¹
      ; "Richard Engaine, one of the insurrectionary barons, in the reign of King John, whose lands were in consequence seized by the crown. He d. in 1216, and was s. by his brother, Vitalis Engaine..."¹

     John de Engaine 1st Lord Engaine died in 1322.¹
      ; "John de Engaine. This feudal lord having distinguished himself in the wars of Scotland, temp. Edward I, was summoned to parliament as a Baron by the monarch, from 6 February, 1299, to 15 May, 1321. His lordship d. however, the next year, when the Barony became Extinct, but his landed property devolved upon his nephew as heir at law, namely - John de Engaine (son of Nicholas de Engaine, by Amicia, dau. of Walter Fauconberg)..."¹ He was 1st Lord Engaine on 6 February 1299.¹

     Joyeuse/Joyce Engaine married John de Goldington.^1,2
Joyeuse/Joyce Engaine was born circa 1337.²
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 78.²

     Mary Engaine married Sir William Bernak
; her 1st husband.^1,2 Mary Engaine married Thomas La Zouche.⁵
Mary Engaine was born circa 1343.²
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 79.²

     Sir Thomas Engaine of Laxton, 2nd Lord Engaine was born circa 1335.² He married Lady Katherine de Courtenay, daughter of Sir Hugh de Courtenay KG, 2nd/10th Earl Devon, Lord Courtenay and Margaret de Bohun, on 18 October 1353
; her 2nd husband.^1,2,6,7
Sir Thomas Engaine of Laxton, 2nd Lord Engaine died on 29 June 1367; dsp.^1,2
      ; "Thomas de Engaine, 2nd Baron, but never summoned to parliament. His lordship m. the Lady Katherine Courtenay, dau. of Hugh, Earl of Devonshire, and widow of Lord Harington, but dying s. p. in 1267, his great landed possessions devolved upon his sisters as co-heirs, while the Barony of Engaine fell into abeyance amongst them, as it still continues with their representatives."¹

; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant,forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Sir Bernard Burke, Reference: 141
2. The Complete Peerage 1936 , H.A.Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: V 77.²

     Lady Katherine de Courtenay married Sir John de Harington 2nd Lord Harington, son of Sir Robert de Harington Knt. and Elizabeth de Multon,
; her 1st husband.^1,2 Lady Katherine de Courtenay married Sir Thomas Engaine of Laxton, 2nd Lord Engaine, son of Sir John Engaine of Laxton, 1st Lord Engaine and Joan Peverel, on 18 October 1353
; her 2nd husband.^1,6,2,4
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant,forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Sir Bernard Burke, Reference: 141.²

; "Lady Katherine Courtenay, dau. of Hugh, Earl of Devonshire, and widow of Lord Harington."¹

     Mathew de la Ferte married Gundreda Paynel, daughter of Fulk de Paynel and Juliana de Douai.¹

     GAV-23.

; said to be descended from a sister of Odo, Bishop of Bayeux.

     Gundreda Paynel married Mathew de la Ferte.¹

     GAV-23.

     Barthélémy le Riche de Vendôme Chevalier et Prévôt de Vendôme married Guibourg de Mondoubleau, daughter of Hildebert Payen (?) seigneur de Mondoubleau and Aye/Aiga (?).^4,5

Barthélémy le Riche de Vendôme Chevalier et Prévôt de Vendôme died circa 1147; died on while on crusade.¹
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 724.¹ EDV-27. Barthélémy le Riche de Vendôme Chevalier et Prévôt de Vendôme was also known as Barthelemy de Bouchet.⁶

     Fulk de Paynel married Juliana de Douai, daughter of Robert de Douai.⁴

Fulk de Paynel died circa 1165.¹
      .¹ GAV-24.

     Juliana de Douai married Fulk de Paynel, son of William Paynel and Avice de Rumilly.¹

     GAV-24.

     Grecia (?) married Hubert I de Vaux Lord of Gilsland, son of Robert de Vaux and (?) de Mountchesney.^1,2

     GAV-23.

     Hildebert Payen (?) seigneur de Mondoubleau married Aye/Aiga (?) circa 1065.^4,2

Hildebert Payen (?) seigneur de Mondoubleau died circa 1110.¹

     Raingarda (?) married Guido di Salerno Duke of Sorrento, Conte di Conza, son of Guaimar III di Salerno Principe di Salerno and Gaitelgrima di Capua.¹

Raingarda (?) died after 1056.¹
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "GUIDO di Salerno, son of GUAIMAR III Prince of Salerno & his second wife Gaitelgrima of Capua ([1012/13]-before 1077). A charter of Guaimar III Prince of Salerno dated Feb 1032 names "Guidoni et Paldulfi germani eiusdem…potestatis"[1059]. Amatus records that Guaimar IV Prince of Salerno gave the title Duke of Sorrento "to his blood brother Guido", dated to 1039[1060]. The Catalogus Principum Salerni record that "Wido alter, Weimarii frater" ruled in Salerno for two months[1061]. A charter dated Jun 1047 records the presence of "domni…Guaimarii…principis et ducis [et] domnus Guido dux et Paldulfus germani eius…filii…domni Guaimarii principis" at a donation, with "Atenolfum comitem filium quondam Landolfi comitis, et…Iohannem comitem filium quondam Alfani comitis" named as guarantors[1062]. "Guido…dux qui fuit filius gloriose recordationis domini Guaimarii principis et domna Raingarda duce uxor illius filia Landonis comitis coniuncti" sold property to "Sicenolfo gastaldo filio quondam Sicenolfi" by charter dated Apr 1056 which names "Iohannem comitem generum eorum filium Guaimarii comitis" as fiduciary[1063]. Conte di Conza. Amatus records that Guido escaped death when his brother Prince Guaimar was murdered, fled to the Normans, and with their help expelled the conspirators from Salerno within a week[1064].
     "m RAINGARDA, daughter of LANDO Conte di Caiazzo & his wife --- (-after 1056). "Guido…dux qui fuit filius gloriose recordationis domini Guaimarii principis et domna Raingarda duce uxor illius filia Landonis comitis coniuncti" sold property to "Sicenolfo gastaldo filio quondam Sicenolfi" by charter dated Apr 1056 which names "Iohannem comitem generum eorum filium Guaimarii comitis" as fiduciary[1065]."
Med Lands cites:

; Per Med Lands: "RAINGARDA (-after 1056). m GUIDO di Salerno, son of GUAIMAR III Prince of Salerno & his second wife Gaitelgrima of Capua ([1012/13]-before 1077). Duke of Salerno 1039. Conte di Conza."¹

     Robert de Douai died in 1136.¹
     GAV-25.

Robert de Douai lived at Bampton, Devonshire, England.¹

     Payen de Fréteval married Helvise/Hodierne (?) heiress of Mondoubleau, daughter of Eudes/Odon Dubleau I de Mondoubleau seigneur de Mondoubleau and Plaisante/Plaisance/Placentia de Montoire,
; her 1st husband.^1,2,6
Payen de Fréteval died in 1044 at died in the siege of Freteval, Freteval, France; slain in battle against Geoffrey Martel, count of Anjoy.^7,2
     EDV-29.

     Helvise/Hodierne (?) heiress of Mondoubleau married Payen de Fréteval, son of Nivelon I de Fréteval seigneur de Fréteval et de Meslay and Ermentrude (?),
; her 1st husband.^1,4,2 Helvise/Hodierne (?) heiress of Mondoubleau married Hamelin II de Langeais.⁵

     Ralph Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire married Maud de Surdeval, daughter of Richard de Surdeval,
;
His 2nd wife.^3,2 Ralph Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire married Unknown (?)
;
His 1st wife. Per ODNB "a possible marriage to Ilbert's [I de Lacy] sister or daughter."^2,4
Ralph Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire died before 1125; Med Lands says d. aft 1088; Saunders says d. bef 1125; ODNB says d. bef 1124.^5,2,1
     GAV-26.

; This is the same person as ”Ralph Paynel” at Wikipedia.⁶ Ralph Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire was also known as Ralph de Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire.^5,2

Reference: Per Med Lands:
     "RALPH Paynell (-after 1088). Ellis says that "it is all but certain that [Ralph Paynel] was a younger son of the seigneur of Moûtiers-Hubert near Lisieux, and had been with his elder brother William at the battle of Hastings"[94]. He appears to base this on the Chronique de Normandie, based on le Roman de Rou, which names "Paomiel [which Ellis transcribes as "Painals"] de Moustier-Hubert" among those who took part in the conquest of England in 1066[95]. Domesday Book records “Ralph Paynel” holding Stockland, East Quantoxhead, Beggearn Huish, West Bagborough and Newhall in Somerset; Drax and other properties in Yorkshire[96]. He held Irnham, Lincolnshire in Domesday book[97]. Sheriff of Yorkshire 1088[98]. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land “in Millingtona et in Hugeth…et…in Howald” by “Radulphus Painel”[99]. "Hugh de Beauchamp, Ralph Paganel" witnessed the charter dated to [1094/1100] under which William II King of England granted a market to St Mary of Thorney[100].
     "m firstly ---. This supposed earlier marriage is suggested by the Complete Peerage which states that land held by Ralph Paynell as a Domesday tenant-in-chief, including Drax in Yorkshire, Irnham in Lincolnshire, and manors in Somerset and Devon, passed "to[ his son William, presumably by an earlier marriage"[101].]
     "m [secondly] MAUD, daughter of [RICHARD de Surdeval & his wife ---]. The Complete Peerage states that land in Yorkshire, including the manor of Hooton (Paynell), were acquired by Ralph Paynell "through his marriage to Maud, presumed to be daughter of Richard de Surdeval"[102]."
Med Lands cites:
; Per Med Lands: "The early generations of this family have been reconstructed from secondary sources, which appear reliable but do not cite the corresponding primary sources. The individuals are shown below in square brackets. The result appears convincing, but should not be taken as the final answer."
"[Two] brothers:
; NB: There is a disagreement regarding the lineage of the English side of the Paynel family between the "Paynel family" article in and the lineage as laid out in Med Lands.


     I. ODNB says that a Ralph Paynel (d. bef 1124) was the 1st English representative of the family, and gives no origin for Ralph. It assigns Ralph two possible wives, m1 NN de Lacy and m2 Maud de Surdeval. Ralph's heir was his son William (d. 1145x7). Per ODNB:
I.0. Unnamed ancestor
I.1. Ralph (d. bef 1124), m1 NN de Lacy, m2 Maud de Surdeval; he had a son:
-----> I.1.1 William (d. 1145x7), m1 NN d'Avranches, and had four sons and one dau.:
-----> I.1.2.1 Hugh I (d. c a 1179)
-----> I.1.2.2 Fulk I (d. 1182/3), m. Lesceline de Grippon or de Subligny
-----> I.1.2.3
-----> I.1.2.4 (not named)
-----> I.1.2.5 (not named)
          m2 Avice de Rumillly (d. ca 1176), and had one dau.:
-----> I.1.2.5 Alice


     II. Med Lands says that the early English Ralph was brother of another William (d. 1087), who was the father of the William (the heir, d. aft 1145). Thus, Ralph was the uncle, not father, of the William (the heir, d. aft 1145). Per Med Lands:
II.0. NN Paynel, he had two sons:
-----> II.1. William (d1087), had a son:
----------> II.1.1. William (d aft 1145) m. NN d'Avranches; he had two sons:
---------------> II.1.1.1. Hugh (d 1180 or bef) m. Nicole NN
---------------> II.1.1.2 Fulk I (d 1182), m. Lesceline de Subligny
-----> II.2. Ralph (d. aft 1088), m1 NN, m2 Maud de Surdeval; he had a son
----------> II.2.1 William (d aft 1147), m. Avice de Rumilly
Conclusion: The differences between ODNB and Med Lands are more complicated than this simple presentation (in assignments of children, names of spouses, etc.) It is tempting to read into this that Med Lands has confused two Williams (II.1.1 and II.2.1); but there is no proof of that. Perhaps the common father for William II.1 and Ralph II.2 is mythical or perhaps William II.1 was in fact the of William II.1.1 and Ralph II.2. For the moment this is just speculation on my part, and I have chosen to follow the more complicated Med Lands lineage, though I continue to study the issue. GA Vaut.^4,2,7 He was living in 1089.⁶

; Per the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography: "Ralph's lands in Drax, Yorkshire, and Middle Rasen, Lincolnshire, passed by 1124 to his eldest surviving son, William (I) Paynel (d. 1145x7), who may also have secured possession of Les Moutiers-Hubert and Hambye in Normandy through him, and added further holdings in Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire to the Paynel honour."⁴

     Maud de Surdeval married Ralph Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert, Normandy, Drax and Hooton, Yorkshire, son of (?) de Paynel de Moûtiers-Hubert (Normandy), Drax and Hooton (Yorkshire),
;
His 2nd wife.^1,2
     Reference: Per Med Lands:
     "RALPH Paynell (-after 1088). Ellis says that "it is all but certain that [Ralph Paynel] was a younger son of the seigneur of Moûtiers-Hubert near Lisieux, and had been with his elder brother William at the battle of Hastings"[94]. He appears to base this on the Chronique de Normandie, based on le Roman de Rou, which names "Paomiel [which Ellis transcribes as "Painals"] de Moustier-Hubert" among those who took part in the conquest of England in 1066[95]. Domesday Book records “Ralph Paynel” holding Stockland, East Quantoxhead, Beggearn Huish, West Bagborough and Newhall in Somerset; Drax and other properties in Yorkshire[96]. He held Irnham, Lincolnshire in Domesday book[97]. Sheriff of Yorkshire 1088[98]. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land “in Millingtona et in Hugeth…et…in Howald” by “Radulphus Painel”[99]. "Hugh de Beauchamp, Ralph Paganel" witnessed the charter dated to [1094/1100] under which William II King of England granted a market to St Mary of Thorney[100].
     "m firstly ---. This supposed earlier marriage is suggested by the Complete Peerage which states that land held by Ralph Paynell as a Domesday tenant-in-chief, including Drax in Yorkshire, Irnham in Lincolnshire, and manors in Somerset and Devon, passed "to[ his son William, presumably by an earlier marriage"[101].]
     "m [secondly] MAUD, daughter of [RICHARD de Surdeval & his wife ---]. The Complete Peerage states that land in Yorkshire, including the manor of Hooton (Paynell), were acquired by Ralph Paynell "through his marriage to Maud, presumed to be daughter of Richard de Surdeval"[102]."
Med Lands cites: GAV-26.