Person Page - 2365

     Adèle/Odile (?) married Guermond I de Picquigny.^3,1,2

      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: XIII 143.¹ GAV-27.

     Guermond I de Picquigny married Adèle/Odile (?)^1,3,2
Guermond I de Picquigny was born in 1013.²
     GAV-27.

; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: XIII 143.¹

     Jean de Picquigny Seigneur d'Ailly married Catherine de Chatillon Heiress of Ailly, daughter of Hugh de Chatillon Comte de St. Pol, Seigneur de Leuze de Condé de Carency de Buquoy and Jeanne de Dargies,
; her 1st husband.^2,1
Jean de Picquigny Seigneur d'Ailly died between January 1346 and March 1348.¹
      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 18.¹

     Catherine de Chatillon Heiress of Ailly married Jean de Picquigny Seigneur d'Ailly, son of Ferri de Picquigny seigneur d'Ailly et Hervey and Beatrix de Nesle dame de Falvy et La Herelle,
; her 1st husband.^1,2 Catherine de Chatillon Heiress of Ailly married Jean II de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré, son of Jean de Grandpré Seigneur de Buzancy, Comte de Grandpré and Jeanne (?), before 1354
; her 2nd husband.³
Catherine de Chatillon Heiress of Ailly died in 1383.¹
      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 18.¹

     Jean II de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré married Catherine de Chatillon Heiress of Ailly, daughter of Hugh de Chatillon Comte de St. Pol, Seigneur de Leuze de Condé de Carency de Buquoy and Jeanne de Dargies, before 1354
; her 2nd husband.¹
      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 12.¹ Jean II de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré was living in 1319.¹

     Jean de Grandpré Seigneur de Buzancy, Comte de Grandpré married Jeanne (?) before October 1301.^4,1

Jean de Grandpré Seigneur de Buzancy, Comte de Grandpré died circa 1314.¹
      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 1.¹

     Jeanne (?) married Jean de Grandpré Seigneur de Buzancy, Comte de Grandpré, son of Henri V (?) Comte de Grandpré, Seigneur de Livry and Isabeau de Brienne, before October 1301.^1,2

      ; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹ Jeanne (?) was living in 1323.¹

     Ermentrude de Joux married Henri I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré et de Porcien, son of Henri-Hecelin II (?) Comte and NN de Château-Porcien.^3,4,5,1

      ; Per Racines et Histoire (Grandpré): “Henri 1er de Grandpré + dès 1151 comte de Grandpré et de Porcien (~1120), comte de Verdun (1120/24)
     ép. Ermentrude de Joux (alias de Grandson) (fille de Conon «Faucon» de La Sarraz (Grandson), et d’Adélaïde de Roucy ; est dite soeur de Barthélémi, Evêque de Laon)”.⁴

; Per Med Lands:
     "HENRI [I], son of HENRI [Hezelin] Comte & his wife --- de Porcien (-[1148/51]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Comte de Grandpré. Comte de Château-Porcien: Barthélemy records that, after the death of Roger Comte de Porcien, Henri inherited part of his assets “qui forma le fief de Château-Porcien” and as such confirmed donations made by his predecessors to Cuissy by charter dated 1134 and together with “la petite-fille de Roger qui avait épousé Clérembaud de Rosoy” donated Notre-Dame de Château-Porcien to Reims Saint-Nicaise by charter dated 1148[856].
     "m ERMENTRUDE [de Joux], daughter of [CONON "Falcon" de Grandson & his wife Aelis de Ramerupt]. Three different sources specify somewhat different versions of the parentage of Ermentrude. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Ebalum et…episcopum Laudunensem Bartholomeum et eorum sorores" as children of "Aeliz de Sarrata in Burgundia", specifying that one sister married "Henrico comiti de Grandi prato"[857]. The Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis refers to "unam sororum domni Bartholomei" as wife of "Henricus de Grandi-prato"[858]. The Miraculis S. Mariæ Laudunensis names "Ermentrudis" as one of "aliis filiis et filiabus" of Foulques de Joux and his wife, adding that she married "Henricus comes de Grandiprato"[859]. It is possible that Ermentrude was the sister of Ebles [I] de Grandson, although the reference to “Joux” has not been clarified."
Med Lands cites:

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹

; Per Med Lands:
     "[ERMENTRUDE [de Joux] . Three different sources specify somewhat different versions of the parentage of Ermentrude. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names “Ebalum et…episcopum Laudunensem Bartholomeum et eorum sorores” as children of “Aeliz de Sarrata in Burgundia”, specifying that one sister married “Henrico comiti de Grandi prato”[1115]. The Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis refers to “unam sororum domni Bartholomei” as wife of “Henricus de Grandi-prato”[1116]. The Miraculis S. Mariæ Laudunensis names “Ermentrudis” as one of “aliis filiis et filiabus” of Foulques de Joux and his wife, adding that she married “Henricus comes de Grandiprato”[1117]. It is possible that Ermentrude was the sister of Ebles [I] de Grandson, although if that is correct the reference to “Joux” has not been explained (other than the confusion concerning Joux referred to above in relation to her supposed father).
     "m HENRI Comte de Grandpré et de Porcien, son of HENRI [Hezelin] Comte & his wife --- de Porcien (-before 1151).]"
Med Lands cites:

     NN de Château-Porcien married Henri-Hecelin II (?) Comte, son of Hermann de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré and Judith de Roucy.^2,1,3

     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.⁴

     Henri-Hecelin II (?) Comte married NN de Château-Porcien.^3,6,2

     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹ Henri-Hecelin II (?) Comte was living in 1061.³

     Hermann de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré married Judith de Roucy, daughter of Ebalus/Ebles (?) de Poitou,
;
Her 2nd husband.^1,2,7
Hermann de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré died after 1064.¹
      ; Per Racines et Histoire (Grandpré): “Hermannde Grandpré + après 1064 fl 1050 comte de Grandpré
     ép. Judith (de Roucy ?)”.¹

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.²
; NB: There is some confusion regarding the wife/wives of Hildrad.
[:TAB:]Genealogics, citing ES 7:11, shows two marriages:
m1 Hadvide de Florennes
m2 Hersende NN
     Med Lands shows one marriage to Hersende and then states "The precise relationship between the following person, a relative of Gérard de Florennes Bishop of Cambrai, has not been ascertained."
     Racines et Histoire (Grandpré) shows one marrage to "Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?,
de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes
et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes..."
Conclusion: Med Lands and Rainces et Histoire seem to assume that "Hadvide" and "Hersende" were the same person and that she had some relationship to the seigneurs de Florennes. I don't find any of these completely convincing, so have for the moment followed Genealogics in positing to marriages, with one of them to a Hadvide de Florennes and the other to an otherwise unidentified Hersende. GA Vaut.^5,6,8,1,9 He was living in 1050.¹

     Hadvide (?) de Florennes married Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré
;
His 1st wife.^1,2,4 Hadvide (?) de Florennes was born circa 975.²
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹

; Per Racines et Histoire (Florennes & Rumigny): “Hadwide de Florennes ° ~975
     ép. Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) 1er, comte de Grandpré (fl 1008/1020)
     postérité dont : Hermann de Grandpré”.²
; NB: There is some confusion regarding the wife/wives of Hildrad.
[:TAB:]Genealogics, citing ES 7:11, shows two marriages:
m1 Hadvide de Florennes
m2 Hersende NN
     Med Lands shows one marriage to Hersende and then states "The precise relationship between the following person, a relative of Gérard de Florennes Bishop of Cambrai, has not been ascertained."
     Racines et Histoire (Grandpré) shows one marrage to "Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?,
de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes
et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes..."
Conclusion: Med Lands and Rainces et Histoire seem to assume that "Hadvide" and "Hersende" were the same person and that she had some relationship to the seigneurs de Florennes. I don't find any of these completely convincing, so have for the moment followed Genealogics in positing to marriages, with one of them to a Hadvide de Florennes and the other to an otherwise unidentified Hersende. GA Vaut.^4,5,6,7,8
; Per Racines et Histoire (Grandpré): “Hildrad (Hezelin, Hécelin, Hescelin) 1er de Grandpré + un 11/12 (Galilée) fl 1020 vassal en 1008 du duc de Basse-Lorraine Geodefroi III pour l’avouerie de Manre (bénéfice de l’Eglise de Reims proche de Grandpré), seigneur de Grandpré (08) (charte de confirmation de la fondation du couvent de Marie-Madeleine de Verdun 16/06/1040)
     ép. ~1012/15 (sép. 1020/23) Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?, de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes, évêque
de Cambrai ; ép. peut-être 2) 1020/25 Widrich, comte de Clermont)”.⁷

     Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré married Hadvide (?) de Florennes, daughter of Arnoul (Arnold, Arnaud) I (?) seigneur de Florennes et Morialmé and Ermentrude (?) de Verdun,
;
His 1st wife.^5,2,1 Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré married Hersende (?) between 1012 and 1015
;
His 2nd wife; Her 1st husband.^6,1,4,3 Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré and Hersende (?) were divorced between 1020 and 1023.^4,3
      ; Per Racines et Histoire (Florennes & Rumigny): “Hadwide de Florennes ° ~975
     ép. Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) 1er, comte de Grandpré (fl 1008/1020)
     postérité dont : Hermann de Grandpré”.²

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹

; NB: There is some confusion regarding the wife/wives of Hildrad.
[:TAB:]Genealogics, citing ES 7:11, shows two marriages:
m1 Hadvide de Florennes
m2 Hersende NN
     Med Lands shows one marriage to Hersende and then states "The precise relationship between the following person, a relative of Gérard de Florennes Bishop of Cambrai, has not been ascertained."
     Racines et Histoire (Grandpré) shows one marrage to "Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?,
de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes
et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes..."
Conclusion: Med Lands and Rainces et Histoire seem to assume that "Hadvide" and "Hersende" were the same person and that she had some relationship to the seigneurs de Florennes. I don't find any of these completely convincing, so have for the moment followed Genealogics in positing to marriages, with one of them to a Hadvide de Florennes and the other to an otherwise unidentified Hersende. GA Vaut.^1,4,7,3,8

; Per Racines et Histoire (Grandpré): “Hildrad (Hezelin, Hécelin, Hescelin) 1er de Grandpré + un 11/12 (Galilée) fl 1020 vassal en 1008 du duc de Basse-Lorraine Geodefroi III pour l’avouerie de Manre (bénéfice de l’Eglise de Reims proche de Grandpré), seigneur de Grandpré (08) (charte de confirmation de la fondation du couvent de Marie-Madeleine de Verdun 16/06/1040)
     ép. ~1012/15 (sép. 1020/23) Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?, de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes, évêque
de Cambrai ; ép. peut-être 2) 1020/25 Widrich, comte de Clermont)”.³

; Per Med Lands:
     "HILDRAD [Hezelin], son of --- (-Galilee 11 Dec ----, bur Verdun Saint-Vanne). Heimo Bishop of Verdun confirmed an exchange of property by charter dated 1020 which names "comes Hildradus"[490]. "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[491]. “Comitibus hiis: Hecelone, Henrico, Gisilberto, Sibodone, Arnulfo” subscribed the charter dated 1029 under which Poppo Archbishop of Trier deplored damage caused to monasteries and donated “ecclesiam Longuion” to the abbey of Notre-Dame-des-Martyrs[492]. "Heinricus…rex" confirmed the foundation and possessions of the convent of Maria Magdalena at Verdun by charter dated 16 Jun 1040, on the petition of "Ricardi Virdunensis ecclesiæ presulis,…quodam suæ dioceseos clerico Ermenfrido, …tempore patris sui Heizelini comitis", which records donations by "Beroldi…quod imprimis eius pater comes Hezelinus…tradidit…[et] Guota per manus mariti sui Gotefridi ducis…aliud etiam de Ionvilla quæ dedit Adelaidis comitissa"[493]. The Chronicon Hugonis records that "Hildradus comes" offered "Richardum filium suum post episcopum" to the church and died in Galilee but was buried at Verdun[494]. The necrology of Verdun Saint-Vanne records the death "III Id Dec" of "Hildradus comes pater domni Richardi episcopi qui nobis tradidit…apud Bolrourum et ad Theonis"[495].
     "m ([1012/15], separated [1020/23]) [as her first husband,] HERSENDE, daughter of ---. "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[496]. The precise parentage of Hersende is unknown. However, her possible relationship to Gérard Bishop of Cambrai, who was the son of Arnaud Seigneur de Florennes, is indicated by the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium which records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino". Gérard was elected bishop in 1010 but it is unlikely that he was born much earlier than 990, bearing in mind that his mother was the daughter of Godefroi Comte de Verdun whose marriage is dated to [963]. It is therefore probable that "nepte" in Gesta should be translated as a more remote family relationship than "niece": any children of Gerard's brothers and sisters could not have been born earlier than 1005, whereas Hildrad's son Richard (presumably born from his marriage with the bishop's niece) was assigned to be a cleric at Verdun Saint-Vanne in 1020. It is possible that the bishop's relationship with Hersende was through his mother's family, the comtes de Verdun. It is possible that Hersende married secondly ([1020/25]) Widrich Comte de Clermont, after her separation from Hildrad. The line of argument regarding Hersende´s possible second marriage is complex and depends on the correctness of several assumptions. Firstly, it is assumed, that Giselbert Comte de Clermont was the grandson of Widrich [I], as explained in the chapter relating to the comtes de Clermont in LOWER LOTHARINGIAN NOBILITY. Secondly, it is assumed that Ermengarde, wife of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu, was the paternal aunt of Giselbert Comte de Clermont, as indicated by the latter´s charter for Cluny dated 1091[497]. Thirdly, in a charter dated 1064, "Ermentrudis de Harenzey" donated "allodium…Sumey" to Ardenne Saint-Hubert, for the soul of "mariti mei Gozolonis", with the consent of "filiis meis…Cunone comite Rodulfo Guidone Joanne Henrico et fratribus meis Hezelino comite et Rainaldo et Balduino", by charter dated 1064[498], her brothers being identified as three of the sons of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré]. Fourthly, Comte Hildrad´s wife is named in the charter dated 1020, under which "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne[499]. Fifthly, as noted above, the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino", and that the couple separated after eight years of marriage[500]. Sixthly, it is assumed that this was the same wife of Comte Hildrad [Hezelin] who is named in the 1020 document (the chronology appears favourable) and that she was the mother not only of Hildrad´s son Richard (named in the 1020 document) but also of his three sons who are named in the 1064 document. It is conceded that the argument is shaky and could fail if any one of these assumptions was incorrect. Nevertheless, it is felt to be a sufficiently interesting possibility to include in the present document."
Med Lands cites:

; NB: This Hersende could be the same person as Hadvide.
Per Med Lands:
     "The precise relationship between the following person, a relative of Gérard de Florennes Bishop of Cambrai, has not been ascertained.
     "HERSENDE . "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[1286]. The precise parentage of Hersende is unknown. However, her possible relationship to Gérard Bishop of Cambrai, who was the son of Arnaud Seigneur de Florennes, is indicated by the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium which records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino". Gérard was elected bishop in 1010 but it is unlikely that he was born much earlier than 990, bearing in mind that his mother was the daughter of Godefroi Comte de Verdun whose marriage is dated to [963]. It is therefore probable that "nepte" in Gesta should be translated as a more remote family relationship than "niece": any children of Gerard's brothers and sisters could not have been born earlier than 1005, whereas Hildrad's son Richard (presumably born from his marriage with the bishop's niece) was assigned to be a cleric at Verdun Saint-Vanne in 1020. It is possible that the bishop's relationship with Hersende was through his mother's family, the comtes de Verdun. The line of argument regarding Hersende´s possible second marriage is complex and depends on the correctness of several assumptions. Firstly, it is assumed, that Giselbert Comte de Clermont was the grandson of Widrich [I], as explained in the chapter relating to the comtes de Clermont in the document LOWER LOTHARINGIAN NOBILITY. Secondly, it is assumed that Ermengarde, wife of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu, was the paternal aunt of Giselbert Comte de Clermont, as indicated by the latter´s charter for Cluny dated 1091[1287]. Thirdly, in a charter dated 1064, "Ermentrudis de Harenzey" donated "allodium…Sumey" to Ardenne Saint-Hubert, for the soul of "mariti mei Gozolonis", with the consent of "filiis meis…Cunone comite Rodulfo Guidone Joanne Henrico et fratribus meis Hezelino comite et Rainaldo et Balduino", by charter dated 1064[1288], her brothers being identified as three of the sons of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré]. Fourthly, Comte Hildrad´s wife is named in the charter dated 1020, under which "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne[1289]. Fifthly, as noted above, the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino", and that the couple separated after eight years of marriage[1290]. Sixthly, it is assumed that this was the same wife of Comte Hildrad [Hezelin] who is named in the 1020 document (the chronology appears favourable) and that she was the mother not only of Hildrad´s son Richard (named in the 1020 document) but also of his three sons who are named in the 1064 document. It is conceded that the argument is shaky and could fail if any one of these assumptions was incorrect. Nevertheless, it is felt to be a sufficiently interesting possibility to include in the present document.
     "m [firstly] HILDRAD [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré], son of ---.
     "[m secondly ([1020/25]) WIDRICH [I] [Comte de Clermont], son of ---.]"
Med Lands cites: Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré was living in 1008.⁹ He was living in 1020.³

     Hersende (?) married Widrich I (?) Comte de Clermont
;
Her possible 2nd husband.² Hersende (?) married Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré between 1012 and 1015
;
His 2nd wife; Her 1st husband.^1,3,4,5 Hersende (?) and Hildrad (Hezelin, Hescelin) I de Grandpré Comte de Grandpré were divorced between 1020 and 1023.^4,5
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "HILDRAD [Hezelin], son of --- (-Galilee 11 Dec ----, bur Verdun Saint-Vanne). Heimo Bishop of Verdun confirmed an exchange of property by charter dated 1020 which names "comes Hildradus"[490]. "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[491]. “Comitibus hiis: Hecelone, Henrico, Gisilberto, Sibodone, Arnulfo” subscribed the charter dated 1029 under which Poppo Archbishop of Trier deplored damage caused to monasteries and donated “ecclesiam Longuion” to the abbey of Notre-Dame-des-Martyrs[492]. "Heinricus…rex" confirmed the foundation and possessions of the convent of Maria Magdalena at Verdun by charter dated 16 Jun 1040, on the petition of "Ricardi Virdunensis ecclesiæ presulis,…quodam suæ dioceseos clerico Ermenfrido, …tempore patris sui Heizelini comitis", which records donations by "Beroldi…quod imprimis eius pater comes Hezelinus…tradidit…[et] Guota per manus mariti sui Gotefridi ducis…aliud etiam de Ionvilla quæ dedit Adelaidis comitissa"[493]. The Chronicon Hugonis records that "Hildradus comes" offered "Richardum filium suum post episcopum" to the church and died in Galilee but was buried at Verdun[494]. The necrology of Verdun Saint-Vanne records the death "III Id Dec" of "Hildradus comes pater domni Richardi episcopi qui nobis tradidit…apud Bolrourum et ad Theonis"[495].
     "m ([1012/15], separated [1020/23]) [as her first husband,] HERSENDE, daughter of ---. "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[496]. The precise parentage of Hersende is unknown. However, her possible relationship to Gérard Bishop of Cambrai, who was the son of Arnaud Seigneur de Florennes, is indicated by the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium which records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino". Gérard was elected bishop in 1010 but it is unlikely that he was born much earlier than 990, bearing in mind that his mother was the daughter of Godefroi Comte de Verdun whose marriage is dated to [963]. It is therefore probable that "nepte" in Gesta should be translated as a more remote family relationship than "niece": any children of Gerard's brothers and sisters could not have been born earlier than 1005, whereas Hildrad's son Richard (presumably born from his marriage with the bishop's niece) was assigned to be a cleric at Verdun Saint-Vanne in 1020. It is possible that the bishop's relationship with Hersende was through his mother's family, the comtes de Verdun. It is possible that Hersende married secondly ([1020/25]) Widrich Comte de Clermont, after her separation from Hildrad. The line of argument regarding Hersende´s possible second marriage is complex and depends on the correctness of several assumptions. Firstly, it is assumed, that Giselbert Comte de Clermont was the grandson of Widrich [I], as explained in the chapter relating to the comtes de Clermont in LOWER LOTHARINGIAN NOBILITY. Secondly, it is assumed that Ermengarde, wife of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu, was the paternal aunt of Giselbert Comte de Clermont, as indicated by the latter´s charter for Cluny dated 1091[497]. Thirdly, in a charter dated 1064, "Ermentrudis de Harenzey" donated "allodium…Sumey" to Ardenne Saint-Hubert, for the soul of "mariti mei Gozolonis", with the consent of "filiis meis…Cunone comite Rodulfo Guidone Joanne Henrico et fratribus meis Hezelino comite et Rainaldo et Balduino", by charter dated 1064[498], her brothers being identified as three of the sons of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré]. Fourthly, Comte Hildrad´s wife is named in the charter dated 1020, under which "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne[499]. Fifthly, as noted above, the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino", and that the couple separated after eight years of marriage[500]. Sixthly, it is assumed that this was the same wife of Comte Hildrad [Hezelin] who is named in the 1020 document (the chronology appears favourable) and that she was the mother not only of Hildrad´s son Richard (named in the 1020 document) but also of his three sons who are named in the 1064 document. It is conceded that the argument is shaky and could fail if any one of these assumptions was incorrect. Nevertheless, it is felt to be a sufficiently interesting possibility to include in the present document."
Med Lands cites:

; Per Racines et Histoire (Grandpré): “Hildrad (Hezelin, Hécelin, Hescelin) 1er de Grandpré + un 11/12 (Galilée) fl 1020 vassal en 1008 du duc de Basse-Lorraine Geodefroi III pour l’avouerie de Manre (bénéfice de l’Eglise de Reims proche de Grandpré), seigneur de Grandpré (08) (charte de confirmation de la fondation du couvent de Marie-Madeleine de Verdun 16/06/1040)
     ép. ~1012/15 (sép. 1020/23) Hersende (alias Hadvide) (de Florennes ?, de Rumigny ? de Verdun ?) (possible fille d’Arnaud 1er de Florennes et d’Ermentrude de Verdun ; parente de Gérard de Florennes, évêque
de Cambrai ; ép. peut-être 2) 1020/25 Widrich, comte de Clermont)”.⁵

; van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: VII 11.¹

; NB: This Hersende could be the same person as Hadvide.
Per Med Lands:
     "The precise relationship between the following person, a relative of Gérard de Florennes Bishop of Cambrai, has not been ascertained.
     "HERSENDE . "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[1286]. The precise parentage of Hersende is unknown. However, her possible relationship to Gérard Bishop of Cambrai, who was the son of Arnaud Seigneur de Florennes, is indicated by the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium which records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino". Gérard was elected bishop in 1010 but it is unlikely that he was born much earlier than 990, bearing in mind that his mother was the daughter of Godefroi Comte de Verdun whose marriage is dated to [963]. It is therefore probable that "nepte" in Gesta should be translated as a more remote family relationship than "niece": any children of Gerard's brothers and sisters could not have been born earlier than 1005, whereas Hildrad's son Richard (presumably born from his marriage with the bishop's niece) was assigned to be a cleric at Verdun Saint-Vanne in 1020. It is possible that the bishop's relationship with Hersende was through his mother's family, the comtes de Verdun. The line of argument regarding Hersende´s possible second marriage is complex and depends on the correctness of several assumptions. Firstly, it is assumed, that Giselbert Comte de Clermont was the grandson of Widrich [I], as explained in the chapter relating to the comtes de Clermont in the document LOWER LOTHARINGIAN NOBILITY. Secondly, it is assumed that Ermengarde, wife of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu, was the paternal aunt of Giselbert Comte de Clermont, as indicated by the latter´s charter for Cluny dated 1091[1287]. Thirdly, in a charter dated 1064, "Ermentrudis de Harenzey" donated "allodium…Sumey" to Ardenne Saint-Hubert, for the soul of "mariti mei Gozolonis", with the consent of "filiis meis…Cunone comite Rodulfo Guidone Joanne Henrico et fratribus meis Hezelino comite et Rainaldo et Balduino", by charter dated 1064[1288], her brothers being identified as three of the sons of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré]. Fourthly, Comte Hildrad´s wife is named in the charter dated 1020, under which "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne[1289]. Fifthly, as noted above, the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino", and that the couple separated after eight years of marriage[1290]. Sixthly, it is assumed that this was the same wife of Comte Hildrad [Hezelin] who is named in the 1020 document (the chronology appears favourable) and that she was the mother not only of Hildrad´s son Richard (named in the 1020 document) but also of his three sons who are named in the 1064 document. It is conceded that the argument is shaky and could fail if any one of these assumptions was incorrect. Nevertheless, it is felt to be a sufficiently interesting possibility to include in the present document.
     "m [firstly] HILDRAD [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré], son of ---.
     "[m secondly ([1020/25]) WIDRICH [I] [Comte de Clermont], son of ---.]"
Med Lands cites:

; Per Med Lands:
     "WIDRICH [I] (-[before 1062]). [Comte] [de Clermont]. "Widricus" names "patris mei…Widrici in castello Clarimontis" by charter dated 1062[296].
     "m ---. The name of Widrich's wife is not known with certainty. However, it is possible that she was Hersende, separated wife of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré], daughter of ---, whom he would have married in [1020/25]. The line of argument for this identification is complex and depends on the correctness of several assumptions. Firstly, it is assumed, as explained below, that Giselbert Comte de Clermont was the grandson of Widrich [I]. Secondly, it is assumed that Ermengarde, wife of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu, was the paternal aunt of Giselbert Comte de Clermont, as indicated by the latter´s charter for Cluny dated 1091, quoted below, the document indicating a link with Henri [de Toul] Bishop of Liège with whom Ermengarde was closely connected as shown by other documentation quoted below[297]. Thirdly, in a charter dated 1064, "Ermentrudis de Harenzey" donated "allodium…Sumey" to Ardenne Saint-Hubert, for the soul of "mariti mei Gozolonis", with the consent of "filiis meis…Cunone comite Rodulfo Guidone Joanne Henrico et fratribus meis Hezelino comite et Rainaldo et Balduino", by charter dated 1064[298], her brothers being identified as three of the sons of Hildrad [Hezelin] Comte [de Grandpré]. Fourthly, Comte Hildrad´s wife is named in the charter dated 1020, under which "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne[299]. Fifthly, the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino", and that the couple separated after eight years of marriage[300]. Sixthly, it is assumed that this was the same wife of Comte Hildrad [Hezelin] who is named in the 1020 document (the chronology appears favourable) and that she was the mother not only of Hildrad´s son Richard (named in the 1020 document) but also of his three sons who are named in the 1064 document. "Hildradus cognomento Hescelinus comes" donated property "Bolruuel" for "Hercendis uxoris mee, Richardi quoque filii mei quem ad clericatus" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated 1020, subscribed by "Albrici nepotis mei"[301]. It is conceded that the argument is shaky and could fail if any one of these assumptions was incorrect. Nevertheless, it is a sufficiently interesting possibility to include in the present document. The precise parentage of Hersende is unknown. However, as noted above, her possible relationship to Gérard Bishop of Cambrai, who was the son of Arnaud Seigneur de Florennes, is indicated by the Gesta Episcoporum Cameracensium which records that "Gerardus episcopus…nepte" was the wife of "Hezelino". Gérard was elected bishop in 1010 but it is unlikely that he was born much earlier than 990, bearing in mind that his mother was the daughter of Godefroi Comte de Verdun whose marriage is dated to [963]. It is therefore probable that "nepte" in Gesta should be translated as a more remote family relationship than "niece": any children of Gerard's brothers and sisters could not have been born earlier than 1005, whereas Hildrad's son Richard (presumably born from his marriage with the bishop's niece) was assigned to be a cleric at Verdun Saint-Vanne in 1020. It is possible that the bishop's relationship with Hersende was through his mother's family, the comtes de Verdun. "
Med Lands cites:

     Eilbert (?) Eilbert, seigneur de Florennes died on 28 March 977 at Fleurus; killed in battle.¹

     Isabella de Kilconquhar was born before 1271.^3,4
     Reference: Genealogics cites:

     Sir John Godard married Constance Sutton.¹

Sir John Godard died circa 1393.¹
      ; per Duvall "Last year there was a discussion of the family of Sir John Godard (d. ca. 1393) and his wife Constance Sutton. At the time, it was noted that their children included daughters Agnes (wife of Sir Brian Stapleton), Maud (wife of Robert Wadesley), and Margaret (who married Thomas Ughtred), as well as sons Sir John (d. 1420) and Henry (who died d.s.p.) Today I've just seen a transcript of Henry Godard's IPM in vol. 23 of the *Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, 6-10 Henry VI, 1427-1432* (2004), no. 666, p. 345, and have discovered that the wife of Sir John Godard (d. 1420), and mother of his son John (d. a minor on 23 August 1430), was the same Isabel who was married (in 1423) to Richard Curzon/Curson, esquire of the body to Henry VI, Capt. Of Honfleur, etc.

This may be of some interest to others on the list, as back in 2003 Brice Clagett argued that if CP was correct in its undocumented identification of Katherine Curzon, wife of Nicholas Griffin of Braybrook (1426-1482), as the daughter of a Richard Curzon, then we need look no further than this Richard Curzon, and his wife Isabel, for her parents.

Strangely enough, Mr. Clagett and I had discussed a Godard connection just a couple of years ago, as I had found an entry in the online version of the CPR (dated 28 September 1451) in which Richard Curzon's widow was referred to as Isabel Godard. At the time, however, we both believed that this indicated that Isabel had married a Godard following Richard's death in 1450. Now, it appears that instead she had reverted back to her earlier husband's name. Additionally, there is no indication in the CPR that Richard Curzon had any heirs aside from Isabel (the entry in question deals with farm on the mines of Devon and Cornwall that had been granted to Richard Curzon in 1441 for a term of 20 years), although I'm not sure if a daughter and son-in-law (Nicholas Griffin and Katherine Curzon were married by 1450 according to the CP) would have been included in the arrangements or not.

At any rate, we may be one step closer to identifying the family of Richard Curzon's wife. Whether or not that takes any closer to identifying Katherine Curzon Griffin's ancestry is, I think, still something of an open question.

Jeff Duvall
jduvall@iupui.edu
Jeffery@iquest.net."¹

     Constance Sutton married Sir John Godard.¹

     Sir Philip de Columbers Knt., Lord Columbers married Eleanor Martin, daughter of William Martin 1st Lord Martin and Eleanor Fitz Piers, before 30 March 1318
; her 2nd husband.¹

     Joan de Hastings married William de Huntingfield of Huntingfield, Suffolk.¹

     Joan de Hastings was living in 1307.¹

     William de Huntingfield of Huntingfield, Suffolk married Joan de Hastings, daughter of Sir John de Hastings Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Ruthin and Isabelle de Valence.¹

William de Huntingfield of Huntingfield, Suffolk died before 24 September 1313.¹

     Robert de Frankeville married Hillary (Hillaria, Eleanor) de Hastings, daughter of Sir Henry de Hastings Knt., of Ashill, co. Norfolk and Ada de Huntingdon, before 1282
; her 2nd husband.¹
Robert de Frankeville died before 1295.¹

     Martin de Salinas married Josepha Gonzales de Salas.¹

Martin de Salinas died in 1503.¹
      ; per Hoskins: "Wikipedia states Maria de Salinas, Lady Willoughby of Eresby (d.1539)
[ancestral aunt by marriage to those of us descending from her
sister-in-law, Margaret (Willoughby), Lady Tyrrell) was of Jewish
(Converso) ancestry.

"Maria was the daughter of Martin de Salinas[1] (d. 1503), and Josepha
Gonzaez de Salas, who were employees of the royal household in Castile.
The family were formerly Jewish, but had become converso."

Retha Warnicke in _ODNB_ says:

"Willoughby [née de Salinas], Maria, Lady Willoughby de Eresby (d.
1539), noblewoman and courtier, was the daughter of Martin de Salinas
and Josepha Gonzales de Salas, who were probably related of the
Castilian royal family."

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
Sonoma County Archivist
Sonoma County History and Genealogy Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562."¹

     Josepha Gonzales de Salas married Martin de Salinas.¹

      ; per Hoskins: "Wikipedia states Maria de Salinas, Lady Willoughby of Eresby (d.1539)
[ancestral aunt by marriage to those of us descending from her
sister-in-law, Margaret (Willoughby), Lady Tyrrell) was of Jewish
(Converso) ancestry.

"Maria was the daughter of Martin de Salinas[1] (d. 1503), and Josepha
Gonzaez de Salas, who were employees of the royal household in Castile.
The family were formerly Jewish, but had become converso."

Retha Warnicke in _ODNB_ says:

"Willoughby [née de Salinas], Maria, Lady Willoughby de Eresby (d.
1539), noblewoman and courtier, was the daughter of Martin de Salinas
and Josepha Gonzales de Salas, who were probably related of the
Castilian royal family."

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
Sonoma County Archivist
Sonoma County History and Genealogy Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562."¹

      ; Rev. Gregory Dexter of London and Providence, Rhode Island, appears to descend from Charlemagne as follows. I welcome corrections/ improvements.

31. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor = Hildegard
30. Louis I, Holy Roman Emperor = Judith of Bavaria
29. Charles II, Holy Roman Emperor = Ermentrude of Orleans
28. Louis of Aquitaine = Adelaide of Paris
27. Charles III, King of France = Eadgifu of England
26. Louis IV, King of France = Gerberga of Saxony
25. Charles, Duke of Lower Lorraine = Adelaide
24. Adelaide of Lower Lorraine = Albert I, Count of Namur
23. Albert II, Count of Namur = Regelinde of Lower Lorraine
22. Albert III, Count of Namur = Ida of Saxony
21. Godfrey, County of Namur = Sybil of Chateau-Porcien
20. Elizabeth of Namur = Gervais, Count of Rethel
19. Milicent of Rethel = Richard de Camville
18. William de Camville = Auberee de Marmion
17. William de Camville = Iseuda
16. Thomas de Camville = Agnes
15. Felicia de Camville = Philip Durvassal
14. Thomas Durvassal = Margery
13. Margery Durvassal = William de la Spine
12. William de la Spine = Alice de Bruley
11. Sir Guy de la Spine = Katherine
10. Eleanor de la Spine = Sir John Throckmorton
9. Sir Thomas Throckmorton = Margaret Olney
8. Margery Throckmorton = Richard Middlemore
7. Elizabeth Middlemore = George Agard
6. Stephen Agard = Elizabeth Raynsford
5. Katherine Agard = Harold Kinnesman
4. Elizabeth Kinnesman = Thomas Dexter
3. Stephen Dexter = Anne Turland
2. Gregory Dexter, Sr. = Isabel
1. Reverend Gregory Dexter, Jr. = Abigail Fuller

Sources:
- Generations 8-31. Gary Boyd Roberts, The Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants, (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2004),
557-558.
- Generations 6-8. A History of the County of Warwick, (1949),
5:153-157 (Kington Hundred, Stretton-on-Fosse Parish). “Thomas Agard
died in 1509, having settled the manor of Ditchford Friary on his son
George on his marriage with Elizabeth daughter of Richard Middlemore.
(fn. 74) George died in 1522 seized of the manor, which passed to his
son Stephen, then aged 9, (fn. 75) who between 1543 (fn. 76) and 1547
(fn. 77) sold the manor and advowson to William Willington.”
- Generations 5-6. A History of the County of Northampton, (1937),
4:158-162, (Broughton Parish). “Stephen, returned as lord in 1546,
(fn. 27) married Elizabeth, daughter to William Raynsford of Tew in
co. Oxford, widow of Robert Belcher, by whom he had a son Ambrose and
two daughters, Jane married to Richard Wycherley of Wycherley, and
Elizabeth who married Harold Kinnesman of Broughton, ‘Vice-treasurer
at arms in the Irish Wars.’ (fn. 28) At his death in 1562, Stephen
Agard was succeeded by his son Ambrose, who in 1588 contributed £25 to
the defense of the country against the Spanish invasion. (fn. 29)”
- Note about Generation 16. Walter C. Metcalfe, F.S.A., The
Visitations of Northamptonshire Made in 1564 and 1618-1619, (London:
Mitchell and Hughes, 1887), 165. Ancestry chart for Belcher of
Geddington shows Elizabeth, da. of William Rainsford of Tew, co.
Oxford, married Robert Belcher of Langport, alias Lamport, co.
Northampton, also married Stephen Agard of Broughton, co. North’ton, 2
vir.
- Generations 4-6. Walter C. Metcalfe, F.S.A., The Visitations of
Northamptonshire Made in 1564 and 1618-1619, (London: Mitchell and
Hughes, 1887), 103. Ancestry chart for Kinsman of Loddington shows
Elizabeth, ux Thomas Dexter of Old (in Orlingbury Hundred), co.
North’ton, daughter of Harold Kinsman of Broughton, co. North’ton and
Katherine, da. of Stephen Agard of Broughton.
- Generations 2-4. A History of the County of Northampton, (1937),
4:200-204 (Old, alias Wold Parish). “In 1608 Thomas Dexter died
seized of [Knightley] manor, leaving it to his wife Elizabeth during
her lifetime, with remainder to their son Stephen and his son
Gregory. Stephen was at that time 50 years old.”
- Generations 1-3. Gordon L. Remington, FUGA, FASG and Roberta Stokes
Smith, “Thomas Clemence of Providence, Rhode Island and Four
Generations of His Descendants,” New England Historical and
Genealogical Register, (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical
Society, 2001), 155:132-133. “Gregory Dexter’s English origins were
long stated to be in Olney, Buckinghamshire. Bradford Swan analyzed
the genealogical scholarship on this issue in his 1949 biography of
Dexter, but twelve years later published evidence that Gregory Dexter
was in fact from the parish of Old in Northamptonshire.7 Research
into the Dexter family of Old, though not yet completed, has failed to
turn up mention of a connection to a Clemence family.8” Footnote 7:
“Bradford F. Swan, ‘A Note on Gregory Dexter,’ Rhode Island History,
20 [1961]:125-126. ‘Gregory Dexter sone of Gregory Dexter [of] Old in
the County of Northpton, yeoman,’ was apprenticed to Elizabeth Aldee
on 3 December 1632 for a term of eight years, but was admitted to
freedom in the Stationer’s Guild on 18 December 1639. Records of the
Company of Stationers of London, Freeman’s Register, 1605-1703, on FHL
microfilm 1482675, and Apprentices Register, 1605-1666, folio 123, on
FHL microfilm 142671.” Footnote 8: “Gregory Dexter, according to the
apprenticeship record, was the son of Gregory Dexter, yeoman, of the
parish of Old, Northamptonshire. Gregory Dexter [Sr.], in turn, was
the son of a Stephen Dexter and Ann Turland and was christened at Old
on 26 June 1581. The only child of Gregory Dexter [Sr.] and his wife
Isabel christened at Old is a daughter Isabel, christened in 1623.
Isabel, the wife of Gregory, was buried at Old in 1667, aged 80,
putting her date of birth at about 1587. Gregory had a brother
Alexander, christened in 1583 and a sister Susannah christened in
1598. [Old, Northamptonshire Parish Registers searched at Northampton Record Office, and Pedigree of Dexter of Old in Isham Longden Collection at NRO.]”
- Generation 1. The Biographical Cyclopedia of Representative Men of
Rhode Island, (Providence, RI: National Biographical Publishing
County, 1881), 39-40. “Rev. Gregory Dexter, the fifth pastor of the
First Baptist Church in Providence is said to have been born in London
early in the seventeenth century. He followed the stationery business
in his native city with one Coleman. For printing a piece that was
offensive to the government he was compelled to flee the country, and
came to Providence in 1643. The same year he was received into the
church, of which he subsequently became pastor. That he soon became a
person of some importance in the infant colony is evident from the
circumstance that he was elected town clerk a few years later after
taking up his residence in Providence. He was also among the fifty-
four persons to whom ‘town lots’ were assigned. In 1648, he was
chosen a ‘commissioner’ to represent the town in the General Assembly,
and again in 1650. He was President of the two towns of Providence
and Warwick one year, 1653-4. In Staples’ Annals may be found, pp.
106-8, an interesting letter of Mr. Dexter’s to Sir Henry Vane, in
reply to the charge which that gentleman had made, that there were
‘divisions, disorders, etc. in the colony which had sorely troubled
him, their loving and steadfast friend.’ In the subsequent history of
the state, the name of Mr. Dexter occasionally appears, as taking part
in the civil affairs of the colony. He was chosen Pastor of the first
Church in Providence to succeed Rev. William Wickenden, who died
February 23, 1669. Morgan Edwards says of him: ‘Mr. Dexter, by all
accounts, was not only a well-bred man but remarkably pious. He was
never observed to laugh, seldom to smile. So earnest was he in his
ministry that he could hardly forbear preaching when he came into a
house or met with a concourse of people out of doors.’ The exact date
of his death is not known, but it must have been not far from the
close of the century in which he was born. He lived to be over 90
years of age. ‘The wife of Mr. Dexter was Abigail Fullerton, by whom
he had three sons and one daughter, Stephen, James, John, and
Abigail.’”
- Note 1 about Generation 1. Journal of the House of Commons:
1640-1643, (1802), 2:268-270. “August 24, 1641. Ordered, That
Gregory Dexter Printer, who printed a Pamphlet, entitled, The
Protestation protested; and was therefore, and for other Misdemeanors
expressed in the said Order, committed Prisoner to the Prison of the
Gatehouse, there to remain during the Pleasure of this House, shall be
forthwith bailed, upon giving good Security to the Sergeant attending
on this House, to attend the said House de die in diem, at all such
times, as he shall be by the House required.”
- Note 2 about Generation 1. Journal of the House of Lords:
1642-1643, (1802), 5:386-388. “October 5, 1642. Abigail Dexter was
brought to the Bar, and asked who it was that made the Book, entitled,
King James’s Judgment of a King and a Tyrant. She answered, ‘That she
did not know who was the Author of it.’ Hereupon her Examination
delivered in Yesterday by the Lord Chief Justice was read before her;
and she being asked who did bring them to her, she said, ‘she did not
know;’ but confessed the said Books were printed by her Directions.
But, because she would not clearly confess who was the Author, this
House Ordered That the said Abigall shall be committed to The King’s
Bench, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further
known.”.¹

     Reference: Genealogics cites: The Abernethy Family, 2009 , Ravilious, John.² Orm de Abernethy was Hereditary abbot of Abernethy.²

;
per Ravilious: "Tuesday, 7 October, 2008
     "A recent visit to the website for the Durham Liber Vitae Project found little evidence of recent activity. Thus far, one publication has been noted: The Durham Liber Vitae and its Context, edited by David Rollason et al. [1]
     "In his contribution to this work, the eminent Professor G. W. S.
Barrow wrote concerning Laurence de Abernethy (grandfather of Sir
Hugh de Abernethy) and his family:
     "' Laurence son of Orm, hereditary abbot of Abernethy, and his wife Derbforgaill (Dervorguilla) were entered on fol. 61r (with a commitment to pay one shilling annually), and Laurence again on fol. 71v, this time with what looks like a family cluster: Patrick son of Laurence, Orm son of Michael, Dervorguilla, Perpetua, Anna, Mary and Margaret, to whom we should add (on palaeographic evidence) Hugh of Moray, and Heimo abbot of Byland. If Abbot Heimo (Hamo), who became abbot in 1198 and had died or resigned by 1203, was entered on the same occasion as Laurence and his family, that would give an early, but by no means impossibly early, date for the entry on fol. 71v.
     "These two separate entries probably indicate two visits. In the summer of 1213, when King John was collecting hostages for the good behaviour of William the Lion king of Scots, the prior of Durham was commanded to send to the English king at Southampton the son of Laurence of Abernethy. Perhaps this was the occasion of the later of two visits, but we must bear in mind the probability that Laurence was with the Scottish king Alexander II at the the making of the Treaty of York in September 1237, and the certainty that he took part (by then an old man) in the making of peace between Alexander and Henry III at Newcastle in 1244. ' [2]
The career of Abbot Hamo (or Heimo) of Byland may place the (second) visit of Laurence de Abernethy to Durham in a narrow time-frame, although this is not certain. It has been remarked that some individuals named in the Liber Vitae may in fact not have been present at Durham; that being the case, it is uncertain whether one had to be 'in office' (or living) at the time of the Liber Vitae entry. It does appear that the suggestion of 1213 as the date for the second Abernethy fam ily visit to Durham is a bit late. The hostages in question (including the son of Laurence de Abernethy) were already in English hands as evidenced by the 1213 orders recorded in the Close Rolls, and no direct Scots involvement was needed to effect their transfer toKing John's keeping at Portsmouth [3]. These hostages had been given to King John in or soon after August 1209, following his success in obtaining the submission of King William (the Lion) of Scotland.
     "Among the other visits recorded of benefactors of St. Cuthbert's church in Durham, there is that of William Comyn (his second) together with his son Richard, recorded in the Liber Vitae as follows:
     "" Willelmus Cumin Ricardus filius ejus, petram cerae, in perpetuum " [4]
     "In this entry, William is not identified as the Earl of Buchan, which he became (de jure uxoris) on his marriage to Countess Marjory in 1212. If Richard Comyn was in fact the son of William held as hostage by Eustace de Vesci, it is likely that this visit to Durham occurred in 1209, as from that time until June 1213 Richard would have been in English custody. William may have visited Durham with Richard and met Eustace de Vesci there; or, perhaps following on this visit he went north to visit de Vesci at Alnwick in order to deliver Richard there before returning to Scotland. It appears most likely Laurence de Abernethy likewise visited Durham with his son Patrick in late 1209 for the primary purpose of surrendering Patrick to the prior of Durham as his hostage.
Cheers, John
     "[NOTE: names in CAPITALS in the following pedigree are benefactors named in the Liber Vitae Dunelmensis]


Aedh mac Gillemichael mac Dubh
['Hugo filius Gillemichel' de Abernethy]
__________________I________________
I I
Sir Aedh Orm de Abernethy
_________________________________I________
I I I
LAURENCE = Devorguilla Michael Margaret
de Abernethy I of Galloway fitz Orm = Henry
I I Revel
_______________I__________________ I___________
I I I I I
PATRICK DEVORGUILLA PERPETUA I ORM
(dvp) __________________I fitz
I I I I Michael
I ANNA MARIA I
Sir Hugh de __________________I
Abernethy I I
d. bef 9 MARGARET ORM
Feb 1292/3

NOTES
[1] The webpage for the Durham Liber Vitae Project is found at http://www.dlv.org.uk/index.html (last updated, 22 February 200).
[2] G. W. S. Barrow, Scots in the Durham Liber Vitae, in David Rollason et al., eds., The Durham Liber Vitae and its Context (Woodbridge: Boydell Press, 2004), pp. 112-3. The foregoing is viewable via Googlebooks: http://books.google.com/books?id=YOKc2azkvBcC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=Dervorguilla+Perpetua&source=web&ots=Nw4Cd16c01&sig=GWK3IHsQz2WR5X7Aci05nVE7hX4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
[3] A similar letter to the following was written' to the Prior of Durham, concerning the son of Laurence de Abernethy (Aberthen') ' [unidentified], a hostage of the King of Scotland placed wit h the Prior of Durham for safekeeping, to be transferred to the King of England's custody, 13 June 1213 :
     "' 574. Concerning the K. of Scotland's hostages. The K. to S[aher] earl of Winchester. Commands him on receipt, immediately to send the K. by good and safe messengers, Reginald his own son, and the son of William de Veteripont, hostages of the K. of Scotland, who are in his custody by
     "the K.'s order; so that they may be with the K. at Portsmouth on the vigil of St. John Baptist instant. Beaulieu. ' [Joseph Bain, ed., Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland (Edinburgh: Her Majesty's General Register House, 1881), I:100-101, cites Foedera I:113; and Close Roll 15 John, p. 1, m. 4. " Priori de Dunolm. de filio Laurencii de Aberthen'." [Lawrie, Annals of the vReigns of Malcolm and William, p. 392, no. CCLXI.]
[4] J. Stevenson, ed., Liber Vitae Ecclesiae Dunelmensis (London: printed for The Surtees Society by J. B. Nichols and Son, 1841), fol. 63b, p. 108."¹

     Cacht ingen Loigisg us Morda (?) married Muirchertach Ua Tuathail (O'Toole) king of Ui Muiredaig, son of Gilla Comgaill Ua Tuathail.^1,3

     GAV-25.

     GAV-26.