Person Page - 2035

     Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie married Hedwig von Salm, daughter of Otto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine and Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland,
;
His 1st wife (per Racines et Histoire.)^6,3 Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie married Beatrix (?)²
Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie married Jeanne de Luxembourg.⁴
Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie was born in 1120.⁴
Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie died after 1190; per Racines et Histoire "+ ~1183 ou 1190."^1,3
     EDV-26.

; Per Wikipédia (Fr.): “Hugues Ier d'Enghien (1120-1190), seigneur d'Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), La Folie. Il acheva le château d'Enghien, élevé par son père. Il fit hommage de sa seigneurie à Godefroid duc de Brabant en 1154 ce qui indigna Baudouin comte de Hainaut qui l'assiégea dans son château afin qu'il rétracte son hommage4. Il épousa Jeanne de Luxembourg "Il eut pour fils : "Englebert III d'Enghien (1140-1205)”.⁴

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 78.¹ Huwes I (Hugues) d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien, Lembeek, Tubize, (Rameru), et La Folie was also known as Hughues d'Enghien.⁶

; NB: There is no common agreement on the number of names of the wives of Huwes/Hugues I, nor on the mother of his children.
     Genealogics shows no wife for Huwes/Hugues I, but assigns him one son, Englebert III, as the son of this unnamed wife.
     Med Lands says he m. "Beatrix" (poss. van Grimbergen?), and assigns all (six) children to her.
     Racines et Histoire (Enghien) says he m.:
But Racines et Histoire (Enghien) doesn't distinguish which wife motheres which child (six).
     Wikipédia (Fr.) says he m. Jeanne de Luxembourg, and only lists one son for her, Englebert III.
     Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4) says he m. Hedwig, dau. of Otto von Salm, Ct Palatine of the Rhine, Gf von Bentheim and Gf von Rheineck, and Gertrud von Northeim, but shows no children
Conclusion: Each of the three possible wives is mentioned two of these sources. I have decided to show all three possible marriages, but have not assigned his children to any of them. GA Vaut.^1,2,3,4,7,8

; Per Racines et Histoire (Enghien): “Huwes (Hugues) ° ~1120 + ~1183 ou 1190 chevalier (1121) seigneur d’Enghien (cité dès ~1121, peut-être 110/15 ; succède à son frère ; y achève le château fortifié érigé par son père ~1166/67 & gardé par des Brabançons), Lembeek, Tubize, Rameru, La Folie (fait donation d’une terre à Wasmes à l’Abbaye de Saint-Ghislain peu avant sa mort ; (hommage en 1154 de sa seigneurie à Godefroi, duc de Brabant, provoquant l’indignation suivie du siège de la place par Baudouin, comte de Hainaut, pour le contraindre à rétracter son hommage)
     ép. Hedwige de Bentheim ° ~1120 (fille d’Otto, comte palatin du Rhin, et de Gertrud von Norheim) (une source moins fiable (?) lui donne pour épouse Elisabeth de Luxembourg)
     ou ép. Jeanne de Luxembourg (ou ép. Béatrice ?) ”.³

; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4): “B4. Hedwig, *1020; m.Hughues d Enghien”.⁷

; Per Med Lands:
     "HUGUES d’Enghien (-after 1166). “Hoston de Bliqui, Tiévin [Liévin?] d’Herbau, Isembart de Mons, Hugues d’Enghien” witnessed the 1121 charter under which “Hersende noble demoiselle” donated herself as a serf to Saint-Ghislain[1163]. “Hugues d’Enghien, Gossuin son frère...” witnessed the charter dated 1122 under which “Alpayde noble dame” donated herself as a serf to Saint-Ghislain[1164]. “Gontier et Gilles de Chin son fils” [see Chapter 3.C of the present document] and “Hugues Seigneur d’Enghien” both donated land “à Wasmes” to Saint-Ghislain, dated to [1133] by Reiffenberg[1165], confirmed 4 Apr 1183 with other donations by Pope Lucius III (“in villa...Wamia...terramque Hugonis de Aengien”), confirmation repeated by Pope Lucius III 12 Jan 1185, by Pope Urban III 7 Mar 1187, and by Pope Celestine III 27 Jul 1191[1166]. "...Hugonis de Aingen..." witnessed the charter dated 1139 under which Baudouin IV Comte de Hainaut granted privileges to the Knights Templars[1167]. “Gertrudis castellana Montensis” donated “allodium...apud Inferiorem Eham et apud Maternam et apud Wolverkerke” to Eename abbey, with the consent of “...Hugone de Adengem...”, by undated charter[1168]. Thierry Count of Flanders donated rights to Froidmont, noting donations made by “Hugone de Adengem...per manum filiorum suorum Siheri Goxuini”, by charter dated 1142[1169]. “Eustachius del Ruez, Hugo de Adengen, Gossuinus de Mons, Theodericus de Ligne...” subscribed the charter dated 1147 under which Baudouin IV Comte de Hainaut terminated a dispute between Hautmont abbey and Nicolas d’Avesnes[1170]. “Alardus de Eversbeka” donated “allodium suum de parte matris sue” to Eename abbey by undated charter, witnessed by “Mathildis et filius eius Gerardus: Hugo de Adengem, Johannes de Petengem...”[1171]. Delporte discusses this charter, recording that it has been dated to [1110-15?] but suggesting that the witness list indicates a later date (in particular because the death of “Johannes de Petengem”, identified as Jan [I] van Peteghem, is estimated to 1154 or before)[1172]. The possibility of some, as yet unascertained, family relationship between the donor and the witnesses seems likely. “Hugo de Adengem et v filii eius...Gozuinus, Ingelbertus, Nicholaus, Sigerus, Bonefacius et frater eius, Hainnerus, Gozuinus...” witnessed the charter dated to [1146/48] under which “Reinsuendis uxor Alardi Hasbenium...” donated property to Eename[1173]. “Hugo de Aengien et Gossuinus filius eius, Arnulphus de Gavra, Theodericus de Linia” subscribed the charter dated 1154 under which Baudouin IV Comte de Hainaut confirmed various properties to the church of Cambron[1174]. "…Hugonis de Engien, Sigeri filii eius…" signed a charter dated 1157 under which Baudouin IV Comte de Hainaut settled a dispute between the abbey of Crespin and "Theodericum, villicum suum de Harminiaco"[1175]. “...Hugone de Adengem, Gozuino, fratre eius...” witnessed the charter dated 1158 under which “Egidius de Belchi” donated property “apud Helsbecam...pasturam que jacet inter Helbecam et Silgi” to Eename[1176]. “...Balduini et Hugonis de Adengem” witnessed the charter dated 1161 under which Nicolas Bishop of Cambrai confirmed donations made by “Ada” abbess of Nivelles “cum...sorore Hazeca”[1177]. Nicolas Bishop of Cambrai confirmed that “domina Ysabealdis de Stenkerca et filius eius Ingelbertus”, with the consent of “uxore eiusdem Ingelberti...prebentibus Hugone de Edengem et filii eius”, donated land and rights “infra nemus de Geterlau” to Cambron, noting that “Egidius de Trazinies” had rights in the same property which he also donated with the consent of “Hugone et filiis eius”, by charter dated 1161[1178]. “...Hugonis de Aingem, Gozuini filii eius et Gozuini fratris eius...” signed the charter dated 1161 under which “domina Eva de Cirvia que dicitur Domisons” donated “medietatem ville...Erbisul” to Ghislenghien, for the soul of “viri sui Razonis de Gavara”, the same document recording another donation witnessed by “Hugo de Aingem, Bonefacius, Gozwinus filii eius...”[1179]. “Hugo de Aenghien et Gosuinus filius nobiles...” witnessed the charter dated to [1164/66] under which “fratrem Fastredum monachum” donated property to Grimbergen[1180]. A charter dated to 1166 records that “Hugo Angiensis cum filiis Gosuino, Engelberto, Sigero et Bonifacio” built “arcem apud Angiam”[1181]. It is assumed that Hugues died soon after this document. Giselbert’s Chronicon Hanoniense records that “Hugo de Aenghien, vavasor potens, pater Gossuini et Engelberti, Soheri et Bonifacii”, vassal of the Comte de Hainaut, built “castrum fossato, muri et turri” but, in breach of his feudal obligation, swore allegiance to “duce Lovaniensi” which triggered war during the course of which Baudouin IV Comte de Hainaut destroyed the castle (undated)[1182].
     "m BEATRIX, daughter of ---. She is named in the following charter of her grandson Engelbert [III] d’Enghien: “Ingelbertus de Aienghem” donated property “in loco...Keth in parrochia de Marcha juxta Aienghem” to Grimbergen, and confirmed “nonam partem decime de Herinis” donated by “avia mea domina Beltris de Aienghem”, for the anniversary of “patris nostri Ingelberti”, by charter dated 13 Jun 1200[1183]. Croenen suggests that she was Beatrix, daughter of Walter [I] [van Grimbergen][1184]. There do not appear to be any surviving primary sources which confirm this suggestion, but it would explain the Enghien family donations to Grimbergen. However, there do not seem to be enough data points available in the early generations of the Grimbergen family to test the suggestion chronologically."
Med Lands cites:
; Per Med Lands:
     "The town of Enghien (Edinghem in Flemish) is located about 25 kilometres south-west of Brussels, and about 40 kilometres north-west of Charleroi, in the present-day Belgian province of Hainaut. The medieval seigneurial family, fiefs of the Comtes de Hainaut, emerged from obscure beginnings in the late 11th/early 12th century, the surviving records only showing use of the seigneurial title from the late 13th century. Matthieu’s late 19th century history of Enghien summarises the local topography and the ancient fortifications, as well as some early recorded mentions of the place[1157], but his descriptions of the early generations of the family are unreliable. Delporte dismisses the existence of Anselme d’Enghien, supposed participant in the First Crusade, as fantasy based on fabricated sources[1158]."
Med Lands cites:


NB: There is uncertainty concerning the early generations of the d'Enghien family. I have found the following theories so far:
I. Wikipédia (Fr.) shows the first five generations as :
See attached descendancy and related citations and sources for the Enghien family from Wikipédia (Fr.)


II. Genealogics does not identify Ansiaulm, but shows the remaining generations to match Wikipédia (Fr.):


III. Med Lands does not identify Ansiaul, and shows other major differences from Wikipédia (Fr.) and Genealogics. Med Lands starts by identifying two separate individuals, without a stated relationship:
Then Med Lands identifies "Two brothers. Their parents have not been identified, but the names of Hugues’s children Engelbert and Boniface suggest a close relationship with the two persons named above. The [1133] donation, cited below, of land in the same location by the Chin and Enghien families suggests some family connection, maybe through their mother."
The rest of the family are identified as:
(Note: separately, Med Lands says, "The precise relationship between the Enghien and Trazegnies families has not been traced.".)


IV. Racines et Histoire (Maison d'Enghien) comes closer to Med Lands in its presentation. It mentions Ansiaul as the progenitor, but shows the link from him to Englebert I as very tenuous. (See attached image of the relevant pages from Racines and Histoire). Racines et HIstoire shows:
Racines et histoire then shows:


Conclusion:
     Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) have inserted one generation (Englebert II - I.3 and II.3) between Englebert I (I.2 and II.2) and Huwes/Hugues (I.4 and II.4), when compared to Med Lands and Racines et Histoire. It then seems that the Englebert III (m. Elisabeth de Trazegnies) shown by Genealogics/Wikipédia (Fr.) is the same person as the Engelbert II shown by Med Lands (m. Elizabeth [van de Aa]) and Racines et Histoire (m. Elizabeth de Trazegnies).
     After considering the available information, I have left Ansiaul in the lineage, and have otherwise chosen to follow the descendancy as shown by Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.), though I have relied on Med Lands and Racines et Histoire for many of the other details. The extra Englebert, between Engleber I and Huwes/Hugues I, means there the various Engleberts are numbered differently in different sources. My numbering follows Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) GA Vaut.^4,2,9,10,8,3
; NB: Racines et Histoire (Enghien) says "Hedwige de Bentheim ° ~1120 (fille d’Otto, comte palatin du Rhin, et de Gertrud von Norheim)." Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4) also shows a dau. Hedwige for Otto and Gertrude and that this Hedwig "m. Hughues d Enghien." However, neither Genealogics nor Med Lands lists a daughter named Hedwig for Otto and Gertrude. There is generally disagreement concerning the wives of Huwes/Hugues d'Enghien, and Hedwige could be an error, or the attribution of parents might be an error.
Conclusion: I have chosen to leave Hed as a dau. of Otto and Gertrude for now. GA Vaut.^{3,11,12,13,14}

     Engelbert II d'Enghien seigneur d'Enghien married Béatrix (?)^2,4

     EDV-27.

; Per Wikipédia (Fr.): “Englebert II d'Enghien (° 1090)”.⁵

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 78.⁴
; Per Med Lands:
     "The town of Enghien (Edinghem in Flemish) is located about 25 kilometres south-west of Brussels, and about 40 kilometres north-west of Charleroi, in the present-day Belgian province of Hainaut. The medieval seigneurial family, fiefs of the Comtes de Hainaut, emerged from obscure beginnings in the late 11th/early 12th century, the surviving records only showing use of the seigneurial title from the late 13th century. Matthieu’s late 19th century history of Enghien summarises the local topography and the ancient fortifications, as well as some early recorded mentions of the place[1157], but his descriptions of the early generations of the family are unreliable. Delporte dismisses the existence of Anselme d’Enghien, supposed participant in the First Crusade, as fantasy based on fabricated sources[1158]."
Med Lands cites:


NB: There is uncertainty concerning the early generations of the d'Enghien family. I have found the following theories so far:
I. Wikipédia (Fr.) shows the first five generations as :
See attached descendancy and related citations and sources for the Enghien family from Wikipédia (Fr.)


II. Genealogics does not identify Ansiaulm, but shows the remaining generations to match Wikipédia (Fr.):


III. Med Lands does not identify Ansiaul, and shows other major differences from Wikipédia (Fr.) and Genealogics. Med Lands starts by identifying two separate individuals, without a stated relationship:
Then Med Lands identifies "Two brothers. Their parents have not been identified, but the names of Hugues’s children Engelbert and Boniface suggest a close relationship with the two persons named above. The [1133] donation, cited below, of land in the same location by the Chin and Enghien families suggests some family connection, maybe through their mother."
The rest of the family are identified as:
(Note: separately, Med Lands says, "The precise relationship between the Enghien and Trazegnies families has not been traced.".)


IV. Racines et Histoire (Maison d'Enghien) comes closer to Med Lands in its presentation. It mentions Ansiaul as the progenitor, but shows the link from him to Englebert I as very tenuous. (See attached image of the relevant pages from Racines and Histoire). Racines et HIstoire shows:
Racines et histoire then shows:


Conclusion:
     Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) have inserted one generation (Englebert II - I.3 and II.3) between Englebert I (I.2 and II.2) and Huwes/Hugues (I.4 and II.4), when compared to Med Lands and Racines et Histoire. It then seems that the Englebert III (m. Elisabeth de Trazegnies) shown by Genealogics/Wikipédia (Fr.) is the same person as the Engelbert II shown by Med Lands (m. Elizabeth [van de Aa]) and Racines et Histoire (m. Elizabeth de Trazegnies).
     After considering the available information, I have left Ansiaul in the lineage, and have otherwise chosen to follow the descendancy as shown by Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.), though I have relied on Med Lands and Racines et Histoire for many of the other details. The extra Englebert, between Engleber I and Huwes/Hugues I, means there the various Engleberts are numbered differently in different sources. My numbering follows Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) GA Vaut.^5,6,7,8,9,10

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 78.¹

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 78.¹ Gossuin I d'Enghien seigneur d’Enghien was living in 1122.¹

     Engelbert I d'Enghien Sire d'Enghien was born circa 1065; Racines et Histoire says b. ca 1065/70.²
     EDV-28.

; Per Racines et Histoire (Enghien): “? Englebert 1er ° ~1065/70 +X peut-être croisé ? (cité acte de l’église de Soignies ; charte de l’Evêque Gérard II de Cambrai en 1092)”.²

; Per Med Lands:
     "ENGELBERT [I] d’Enghien (-after 1092). “Raginerus Sonegiensis advocatus, Engelbertus Dadengien, Balduinus de Stenkirke, Stephanus de Bouler, Gualterus et Hugo de Lens, Liethbertus et Gislardus de Saentes, Arnulfus de Sonegio, Ibert et Abbo de Braine” subscribed the charter dated 1092 under which Gérard Bishop of Cambrai freed the altar of Saint-Pierre in the church of Soignies[1159]. Delporte analyses this charter and summarises other information relating to Engelbert [I][1160]."
Med Lands cites:

; Per Wikipédia (Fr.): “Englebert Ier, sire d'Enghien [33,34] (° 1065), « vir nobilis », compagnon de Baudouin IV de Hainaut, l'édificateur [35]. Il scella une charte à propos de l'église de Soignies en 1092 [36]. Il eut pour fils : Englebert II d'Enghien (° 1090)”
Wikipédia (Fr.) cites:

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: I 78.⁵

; Per Med Lands:
     "The town of Enghien (Edinghem in Flemish) is located about 25 kilometres south-west of Brussels, and about 40 kilometres north-west of Charleroi, in the present-day Belgian province of Hainaut. The medieval seigneurial family, fiefs of the Comtes de Hainaut, emerged from obscure beginnings in the late 11th/early 12th century, the surviving records only showing use of the seigneurial title from the late 13th century. Matthieu’s late 19th century history of Enghien summarises the local topography and the ancient fortifications, as well as some early recorded mentions of the place[1157], but his descriptions of the early generations of the family are unreliable. Delporte dismisses the existence of Anselme d’Enghien, supposed participant in the First Crusade, as fantasy based on fabricated sources[1158]."
Med Lands cites:


NB: There is uncertainty concerning the early generations of the d'Enghien family. I have found the following theories so far:
I. Wikipédia (Fr.) shows the first five generations as :
See attached descendancy and related citations and sources for the Enghien family from Wikipédia (Fr.)


II. Genealogics does not identify Ansiaulm, but shows the remaining generations to match Wikipédia (Fr.):


III. Med Lands does not identify Ansiaul, and shows other major differences from Wikipédia (Fr.) and Genealogics. Med Lands starts by identifying two separate individuals, without a stated relationship:
Then Med Lands identifies "Two brothers. Their parents have not been identified, but the names of Hugues’s children Engelbert and Boniface suggest a close relationship with the two persons named above. The [1133] donation, cited below, of land in the same location by the Chin and Enghien families suggests some family connection, maybe through their mother."
The rest of the family are identified as:
(Note: separately, Med Lands says, "The precise relationship between the Enghien and Trazegnies families has not been traced.".)


IV. Racines et Histoire (Maison d'Enghien) comes closer to Med Lands in its presentation. It mentions Ansiaul as the progenitor, but shows the link from him to Englebert I as very tenuous. (See attached image of the relevant pages from Racines and Histoire). Racines et HIstoire shows:
Racines et histoire then shows:


Conclusion:
     Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) have inserted one generation (Englebert II - I.3 and II.3) between Englebert I (I.2 and II.2) and Huwes/Hugues (I.4 and II.4), when compared to Med Lands and Racines et Histoire. It then seems that the Englebert III (m. Elisabeth de Trazegnies) shown by Genealogics/Wikipédia (Fr.) is the same person as the Engelbert II shown by Med Lands (m. Elizabeth [van de Aa]) and Racines et Histoire (m. Elizabeth de Trazegnies).
     After considering the available information, I have left Ansiaul in the lineage, and have otherwise chosen to follow the descendancy as shown by Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.), though I have relied on Med Lands and Racines et Histoire for many of the other details. The extra Englebert, between Engleber I and Huwes/Hugues I, means there the various Engleberts are numbered differently in different sources. My numbering follows Genealogics and Wikipédia (Fr.) GA Vaut.^3,4,6,7,8,2 He was living in 1092; per Racines et Histoire "cité acte de l’église de Soignies 1092.)^1,2,5"

     Geoffroy Payen (?) Chevalier de Vendôme, Seigneur du Bouchet, de Crucheray, de Nourray et de Lancé married (?) de La Ferté, daughter of Hubert (?) Seigneur de La Ferté.^4,1

Geoffroy Payen (?) Chevalier de Vendôme, Seigneur du Bouchet, de Crucheray, de Nourray et de Lancé died in 1125.¹

     GAV-24.

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 725.¹

     Aenor de Mauleon married Pierre II (?) de Montrabel, seigneur de Preuilly, son of Pierre I dit Montrabel de Preuilly Sire de Preuilly, in 1175.^1,2

Aenor de Mauleon died after 1204.¹
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 725.¹ GAV-23.

     Eschivard II de Preuilly Sire de Preuilly died after 4 November 1217.¹
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 725.¹

     GAV-28.

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 723b.¹

     Berthe d'Ostrevant married Ursus (?) de Champagne, seigneur de Châtillon.^1,2

     EDV-32.

; Per Med Lands: "[BERTHE] . Flodoard names "domnus Heriveus" as "nepos ex sorore Hucbaldi comitis" when recording his appointment as Archbishop of Reims[1552]. Colwener’s Catalogue des Archevesques de Rheims names “Heriveus canonis Remensis filius Ursi comitis Campaniæ et Bertæ sororis Hucbaldi comitis” when recording his ecclesiastical career, but does not specify the primary source on which Hérivé’s stated parentage is based[1553]. m [URSON Comte en Champagne, son of ---.]"
Med lands cites:

     Geoffroy I «Le Martel» de Preuilly Seigneur de Preuilly married Ameline (?)^5,1

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 724.¹ GAV-28. Geoffroy I «Le Martel» de Preuilly Seigneur de Preuilly was living after 1040.¹

     Ameline (?) married Geoffroy I «Le Martel» de Preuilly Seigneur de Preuilly, son of Effroi de Preuilly seigneur de Preuilly, La Roche-Posay et Bossay and Beatrix d'Issoudun.^1,2

     GAV-28.

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 724.¹ Ameline (?) was living in 1037.¹

     Effroi de Preuilly seigneur de Preuilly, La Roche-Posay et Bossay married Beatrix d'Issoudun.^3,1,2
Effroi de Preuilly seigneur de Preuilly, La Roche-Posay et Bossay was born circa 940; Leo says b. ca 940; Racines et Histoire says b. ca 950.^1,2
Effroi de Preuilly seigneur de Preuilly, La Roche-Posay et Bossay died circa 1009.^1,2
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 724.¹ GAV-29.

     Beatrix d'Issoudun married Effroi de Preuilly seigneur de Preuilly, La Roche-Posay et Bossay, son of Fulcufe de Preuilly seigneur du Lion et de Mauléon.^1,2,3

     GAV-29.

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 724.¹ Beatrix d'Issoudun was living in 1009.¹

     Viter/Gauthier (?) de Moeslain died circa 1080.^1,2
     EDV-26.

; Leo van de Pas cites: 1. The Plantagenet Ancestry Baltimore, 1975. , Lt.Col. W. H. Turton, Reference: 202
2. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/1 50.¹

      ; Bishop of Troyes.¹

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/1 50.¹ Eudes de Dampierre was living in 1133.¹ He was living in 1136.²

     Anseric de Dampierre died after 1151.¹

     Andre de Dampierre was living in 1165.¹

     Milon de Dampierre was living in 1165.¹

      ; Bishop of Châlons-sur-Marne.¹

      ; Per Weis: “Robert I, Count of Dreux, b. abt. 1123, d. 1188; m. (3) 1152, Agnes de Baudemont. (Not Vaudemont as in earlier editions). (ES III.1/63, XIV/51).”.²

; NB Leo van de Pas shows that Agnes de Baudement was the mother of the children (married?) of Erard I, Comte de Brienne. Miroslav Marek shows that Erard's wife and the mother of his children was Alix de Montdidier. [GAV 14 Jan 2004]³

; Leo van de Pas cites: The Plantagenet Ancestry Baltimore, 1975. , Lt.Col. W. H. Turton, Reference: 206.¹

     Jean II de Thourotte Châtelain de Noyon married Odette de Dampierre, daughter of Guillaume I de Dampierre and Ermengarde/Basilie de Mouchy, between 1196 and 1200.^{8,2,9,5,10,11}

Jean II de Thourotte Châtelain de Noyon died between 27 December 1235 and 25 August 1237.^9,2,5
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "JEAN [II] de Thourotte, son of JEAN [I] de Thourotte Châtelain de Noyon & his wife Alix de Dreux [Capet] (-[27 Dec 1235/25 Aug 1237]). The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Guidonem et Iohannem de Torota" as the children of "Alaydis [filia comitem de Brana Robertum domnum]" and her third husband, specifying that Jean was father of "Iohannis et Rodulfi Virdunensis et Roberti Ledodiensis episcoporum"[682]. In a later passage, the same source names him "Iohannes castellanus Noviomensis frater castellanorum de Coci" and adding that he was father of "Iohannem de Torota qui sororem habuit domni de Dampetra" (although the chronology suggests that this second reference is incorrect)[683]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated property “in territorio de Lacheni” to Ourscamp Notre-Dame, with the consent of “Oda uxor mea et liberi nostri Guido, Willelmus, Johannes, Aalidis et Ermengardis”, by charter dated 1196[684]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated property “in bosco...Oresmox...inter Floocourt et calceiam de Behencourt...in silva Esge” to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp, with the consent of “Odotha uxor mea et liberi mei Guido, Willelmus, Johannes, Radulfus, Aalidis et Ermengardis”, by charter dated 1199[685]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated “censum...prop prato leprosorum de Trachi” to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp, with the consent of “Odothe uxoris mee et Guidonis primogeniti nostri”, by charter dated 1205[686]. “Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorothe...et Odota uxor mea” donated property “in territorio de Behericourt” to Héronval by charter dated 1206[687]. “Johannes Noviomensis et Thorotensis castellanus” relinquished various rights in favour of Saint-Amand, with the consent of “Odote uxoris mee”, by charter dated 1207[688]. “Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote” donated revenue to Saint-Amand for the anniversary of “Odote uxoris mee”, with the consent of “Guido filius meus primogenitus et filii mei Willelmus, Johannes, Radulfus, Walterus et Robertus et filie mei Aelis, Ermengardis et Helwidis”, by charter dated 1212[689]. “Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote” restored to Saint-Amand “nemus...Radulphi-Fossa” which had been donated by “patris mei bone memorie Johannis de Cociaco”, with the consent of “Guidonis filii mei primogeniti et militis et aliorum filiorum meorum Willelmi, Johannis et Galcheri”, by charter dated 1214[690]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote...Guidoni primogenito meo...cum sorore sau D---" donated “nemoris...inter vivaria Ursicampi et villam de Trachi in Esga silva...et fratri meo R ---- Laudunensi episcopo” to Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp by charter dated 1217[691]. "J. castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated revenue to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp, and committed “Willelmus filius meus” to confirm the donation, by charter dated 1224[692]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" confirmed the donation of “x modiis nemoris sitis inter Noviomum de Behericort juxta nemus Milonis” made to Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp by “Guido de Thorota quondam primus filius meus”, by charter dated 1229[693]. The testament of “Johannes castellanus Noviomensis et Thorote”, dated 27 Dec 1235, appointed as executors “Viridunensis Lingonensis Epos filios meos...”[694].
     "m ODETTE de Dampierre, daughter of GUILLAUME [I] Seigneur de Dampierre-sur-Aube & his [first] wife Ermengarde --- (-1212). The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names (in order) "Ysabella mater domni Roberti de Asperomonte, Oda mater illorum de Torota, tertia Helvidis [uxor] domno Iohanni de Montemirabili peperit Mariam uxor Ingelranni de Coci" as the three sisters of "pater Erchenbaldi Guido de Dampetra"[695]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated property “in territorio de Lacheni” to Ourscamp Notre-Dame, with the consent of “Oda uxor mea et liberi nostri Guido, Willelmus, Johannes, Aalidis et Ermengardis”, by charter dated 1196[696]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated property “in bosco...Oresmox...inter Floocourt et calceiam de Behencourt...in silva Esge” to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp, with the consent of “Odotha uxor mea et liberi mei Guido, Willelmus, Johannes, Radulfus, Aalidis et Ermengardis”, by charter dated 1199[697]. "Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote" donated “censum...prop prato leprosorum de Trachi” to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp, with the consent of “Odothe uxoris mee et Guidonis primogeniti nostri”, by charter dated 1205[698]. “Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorothe...et Odota uxor mea” donated property “in territorio de Behericourt” to Héronval by charter dated 1206[699]. “Johannes Noviomensis et Thorotensis castellanus” relinquished various rights in favour of Saint-Amand, with the consent of “Odote uxoris mee”, by charter dated 1207[700]. “Johannes castellanus Noviomi et Thorote” donated revenue to Saint-Amand for the anniversary of “Odote uxoris mee”, with the consent of “Guido filius meus primogenitus et filii mei Willelmus, Johannes, Radulfus, Walterus et Robertus et filie mei Aelis, Ermengardis et Helwidis”, by charter dated 1212[701].
     "Jean [II] & his wife had nine children."
Med Lands cites:

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: XIII 152.¹

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Jean II de Thourotte ° après 1165 + entre 27/12/1235 et 25/08/1237 (teste 25/12/1235) seigneur de Thourotte (60), Châtelain de Noyon, Vice-Régent & Bouteiller de Champagne
     ép. avant 1200 (dès 1196) Odette de Dampierre + ~1212 dame d’Aillebaudière (fille puînée de Guillaume 1er, seigneur de Dampierre, Saint-Just et Saint-Dizier, Bouteiller de Champagne, et d’Ermengarde de Mouchy.)¹¹"

     Philippa/Mahaut de Dampierre was born after 1196.³ She married Guy/Guigues IV d'Albon Cte de Forez, Cte de Nevers, son of Guy III d'Albon Comte de Forez and Adalasia (?), in 1205
; his 1st wife; Racines et Histoire says m. "1205 ou 1215 ?"^2,1,9,3,10
Philippa/Mahaut de Dampierre died in 1223.^1,2,3
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/1 51; III/4 739.¹

     Ermengarde d'Auvergne married Guy/Guigues IV d'Albon Cte de Forez, Cte de Nevers, son of Guy III d'Albon Comte de Forez and Adalasia (?),
; his 2nd wife.^1,2,3
Ermengarde d'Auvergne died in 1225.¹
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "GUY [IV] (-Castellaneta, Apulia 29 Oct 1241, bur Notre-Dame de Montbrison). "Patris mei et nepos meus Guigo et sorores eius Guigona et Marquissa et uxor fratris mei Adaladix comitissa" consented to the charter dated Dec 1203 under which "R…Lugdunensis ecclesiæ archiepiscopus" donated property to Cluny, as instructed by "Guidonis fratris mei comitis Forensis" who had assigned "comitatum Forensem in manu mea nomine tutelæ liberorum ipsius, nepotum meorum", to found an anniversary for his brother[149]. His parentage is confirmed by the charter dated Mar [1241/42] under which “Guillermus de Bafes miles” recorded his agreement with “Guiodum de Foreis” which names “comes Guido de Foreis, defunctus, avus meus…ex parte prime uxoris sue legittime, que fuit mater matris mee” and adds that Guy [III] Comte de Forez was also father of “comes Guido de Nevers, pater dicti Guidi” by his second wife married during the lifetime of his first wife[150]. Comte de Forez. "Raynaudus…primæ Lugdunensis ecclesiæ minister" founded an anniversary for "fratris nostri Guigonis comitis Foresii…qui sepultus fuit apud Accon in ecclesia Hospitalis", with the consent of "Guigonis nepotis nostri", by charter dated 1215 which names "Guigo comes pater noster"[151]. “Rainaudus et Hulricus, fratres, filii quondam vicecomitis Matisconensis” granted property “quicquid habebant ultra Ligerim…Croset” to “Guigoni comiti Forisiensi nepoti nostro” by charter dated Oct 1220[152]. "Comes Forensis Guigo" donated property to the abbey of Bénissons Dieu, for the soul of "Alasiæ matris meæ bonæ memoriæ", by charter dated 21 Aug 1222[153]. "Guigo comes Forensis" founded the church of Notre-Dame de l’Espérance de Montbrison by charter dated 1223[154]. He succeeded as Comte de Nevers in 1226, by right of his wife. William of Tyre (Continuator) names "le conte de Fores qui estoit cuens de Nevers de par sa feme" among those who took part in the crusade from France which landed at Acre in 1239[155]. He died while returning from Crusade with Thibaut King of Navarre, Comte de Champagne[156]. The testament of "comes Nivernensis et Forensis" is dated 1239, before leaving on crusade, and names "Guigonem filium meum primogenitum…Raynaldum alium meum" (adding that he wished the latter to enter the church)[157].
     "Betrothed (Betrothed [1205/06], [terminated?]) to PHILIPPA [Mathilde] de Dampierre, daughter of GUY [II] Seigneur de Dampierre-sur-Aube et de Bourbon & his wife Mathilde Dame de Bourbon (-1223). Philippe II King of France confirmed the conditions of the proposed marriages between "Guigue fils du comte de Forez, et une fille de Guy de Dampierre" and "Archambaud, fils de Guy de Dampierre, et Guigone, fille dudit comte de Forez" by charter dated [10 Apr 1205/1 Apr 1206][158]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. This betrothal was presumably terminated before the series of disputes which broke out between the Forez and Dampierre/Bourbon families in 1210, which led to Guy’s betrothal to Ermengarde d’Auvergne, but later revived.
     "Betrothed (1210, [terminated?]) to ERMENGARDE d'Auvergne, daughter of GUY [II] Comte d'Auvergne & his wife Petronille de Chambon (-16 Jan 1225). An undated charter records that "Reginaldus…primæ Lugdunensis ecclesiæ minister…et pater meus comes Forensis et Guido comes Arverniæ" agreed the marriages, firstly of "G. fratris mei" and "filias G. comitis Arverniæ", and secondly of "filius…dicti comitis Arverniæ" and "filiam fratris mei G. quondam comitis Forensis"[159]. La Mure describes the background to this betrothal: Philippe II King of France had dispossessed Guy [II] of his county in 1210 in reprisal for his persecution of his brother Robert Bishop of Clermont, Guy de Dampierre Seigneur de Bourbon supported the king in this move, while the county of Forez supported the comte d’Auvergne[160]. However, in a later passage he records that the betrothal of the daughter of Guy de Forez and Guillaume [X] d’Auvergne was terminated "par le changement des affaires qui survint ès Maisons d’Auvergne et de Forez"[161]. La Mure does not state what happened to Ermengarde’s betrothal to Guy [IV] Comte de Forez at the time, but it appears likely that it was terminated too, and presumably revived at some later date after the death of Guy’s first wife.
     "m firstly ([1216]) PHILIPPA [Mathilde] de Dampierre, daughter of GUY [II] Seigneur de Dampierre-sur-Aube et de Bourbon & his wife Mathilde Dame de Bourbon (-1223). Philippe II King of France confirmed the conditions of the proposed marriages between "Guigue fils du comte de Forez, et une fille de Guy de Dampierre" and "Archambaud, fils de Guy de Dampierre, et Guigone, fille dudit comte de Forez" by charter dated [10 Apr 1205/1 Apr 1206][162]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. La Mure dates this marriage to "environ 1216"[163]. As noted above, the political difficulties involving the Forez, Bourbon-Dampierre, and Auvergne families must have resulted in the earlier betrothal to Philippa [Mathilde] being terminated but later revived. The primary source which confirms the actual marriage has not yet been identified. One possibility is that two different daughters of Guy [II] Seigneur de Dampierre were involved, which would explain the different names used in secondary sources.
     "m secondly (Betrothed 1210 [terminated?], [1223/24]) ERMENGARDE d'Auvergne, daughter of GUY [II] Comte d'Auvergne & his wife Petronille de Chambon (-16 Jan 1225). An undated charter records that "Reginaldus…primæ Lugdunensis ecclesiæ minister…et pater meus comes Forensis et Guido comes Arverniæ" agreed the marriages, firstly of "G. fratris mei" and "filias G. comitis Arverniæ", and secondly of "filius…dicti comitis Arverniæ" and "filiam fratris mei G. quondam comitis Forensis"[164]. La Mure describes the background to this betrothal: Philippe II King of France had dispossessed Guy [II] of his county in 1210 in reprisal for his persecution of his brother Robert Bishop of Clermont, Guy de Dampierre Seigneur de Bourbon supported the king in this move, while the county of Forez supported the comte d’Auvergne[165]. However, in a later passage he records that the betrothal of the daughter of Guy de Forez and Guillaume [X] d’Auvergne was terminated "par le changement des affaires qui survint ès Maisons d’Auvergne et de Forez"[166]. La Mure does not state what happened to Ermengarde’s betrothal to Guy [IV] Comte de Forez at the time, but it appears likely that it was terminated too, and presumably revived at some later date. "Guido comes Nivernensis et Forensis" donated property to the abbey of Bénissons Dieu, for the soul of "bonæ recordationis Ermengardis quondam uxoris meæ comitissæ Forensis", by charter dated [2/7] Jan 1226[167]. The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified. The necrology of Saint-Thomas-en-Forez records the death "XVII Kal Feb" of "Ememgertis comitisse"[168].
     "m thirdly (Jul 1226) as her second husband, MATHILDE de Courtenay, Ctss de Nevers, d'Auxerre et de Tonnerre, widow of HERVE [IV] Seigneur de Donzy, daughter of PIERRE I Emperor of Constantinople Seigneur de Courtenay & his first wife Agnes Ctss de Nevers, d'Auxerre et de Tonnerre ([1188]-29 Jul 1257, bur Abbaye de Réconfort, near Monceaux-le-Comte). The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Mathildem" as only daughter of "comitis Petris" & his first wife, specifying that she married firstly "Herveio Gaufridi filio de Giam et de Dunzeio" and secondly "comiti Gugoni Forensi"[169]. "Mathildis comitissa Nivernensis" donated property to the abbey of Corbigny by charter dated May 1226 for the soul of "H quondam bone memorie domini et mariti nostri comitis Nivernensis"[170]. "Guido Nivernensis comes et Mathildis comitissa uxor eiusdem comitis" took under their protection a family belonging to Saint-Cyr by charter dated Jan 1229[171]. "G. comes et M. comitissa Nivernensis et Forensis" donated property to the abbey of Bénissons Dieu, for the soul of "bonæ memoriæ quondam comitis Nivernensis", by charter dated Jan 1236[172]. The necrology of Sens cathedral records the death "IV Kal Aug" of "Matildis comitissa Nivernensis"[173]."
Med Lands cites:

; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/4 735; 739.¹

     Herve IV (?) Sire de Vierzon married Jeanne de Brenne Dame de Mezieres, daughter of Guillaume de Brenne Seigneur de la Rochecorbon, in 1261.²

Herve IV (?) Sire de Vierzon died in 1270 at Tunis, Tunisia.¹
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: XIII 158.¹

     Jeanne de Brenne Dame de Mezieres married Herve IV (?) Sire de Vierzon, son of Guillaume II (?) Sire de Vierzon and Blanche de Joigny, in 1261.¹

Jeanne de Brenne Dame de Mezieres died in March 1298.¹
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: XIII 158.¹

     Beatrix/Agnes de Bourbon was born after 1215.³ She married Beraud VI "le Grand" de Mercoeur Sire de Mercoeur, son of Béraud V de Mercoeur seigneur de Mercoeur, vicomte de Gévaudan, Connétable d’Auvergne and Alix de Chamalières-sur-Loire, in 1238.^6,1,2,3

      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/1 51.¹ Beatrix/Agnes de Bourbon was living in 1281.¹

     Marie de Dampierre was born circa 1230.¹
Marie de Dampierre died on 21 December 1302.^1,2
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: vol III/1 page 51.¹ She was Abbesse de Flines (près Douai.)²