Adèle de Breteuil1

F, #18841, b. 1000, d. 11 September 1051
FatherHildouin/Gilduin (?) Comte de Breteuil, Vcte de Chartres2,3,4,1 b. c 965, d. 18 May 1060
MotherEmmeline (?) de Chartres5,4,1 b. c 976
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited16 Apr 2020
     Adèle de Breteuil was born in 1000.3 She married Raoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy, son of Gautier II "le Blanc" (?) Comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois et du Vexin and Adèle de Vermandois comtesse de Senlis, dame de Valois, circa 1020.3,6,7,8,1

Adèle de Breteuil died on 11 September 1051.3,1
     GAV-28.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 657.1

; Per Med Lands:
     "--- de Breteuil (-11 Sep 1051). The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. Du Chesne states that "Raoul frere de Dreux Comte de Vexin" married “la fille de Gelduin ou Hilduin Comte de Breteuil et de Clermont [en Beauvoisin” who brought “la terre de Nanteuil surnommée de là Nanteuil le Hildouin en mémoire du Comte Hilduin son pere” but does not cite the corresponding primary source[33]. Du Chesne does not name her.
     "m RAOUL [II] Comte de Valois, d'Amiens et de Crépy, son of GAUTHIER [II] "le Blanc" Comte de Mantes, de Valois, d'Amiens et de Crépy & his wife Adela --- (-1060).]"
Med Lands cites: [33] Duchesne (1621) Châtillon, p. 657.9

; Per Racines et Histoire (Vermandois...): "Raoul II, comte de Crépy et de Valois + entre 1030 & 1038 (1037 ?)
     ép. Adèle de Breteuil-Ramerupt ° 1000 + 11/09/1051 (fille de Hilduin de Creil, vicomte de Chartres, comte de Breteuil, seigneur de Ramerupt, Clermont et Nanteuil, et d’Emmeline de Châteaudun)"
Per Racines et Histoire (Breteuil): "Adela (Alix) de Breteuil ° ~1000 + 11/09/1051
ép. ~1020/25 Raoul II de Crépy (Valois) ° ~993 + 1060 comte de Valois, Amiens, Crépy et Vexin (fils de Gauthier II «Le Blanc», comte de Mantes, Valois, Amiens et Crépy, et d’Adela de Vermandois.)10,4"

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle de Breteuil: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139715&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilduin: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164673&tree=LEO
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page - de Valois: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs puis comtes de Breteuil, Vicomtes de Chartres, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Breteuil.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmeline (de Châteaudun): http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164673&tree=LEO
  6. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf, p. 2.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul II de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139714&tree=LEO
  8. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#RaoulIIValois. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#AdelaBreteuildied1051MRaoulIIValois
  10. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 7: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf
  11. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I10363
  12. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul III de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139712&tree=LEO
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Thibaut de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00358832&tree=LEO

Erard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres1

M, #18842, d. circa 1064
FatherHildouin/Gilduin (?) Comte de Breteuil, Vcte de Chartres2,3,1 b. c 965, d. 18 May 1060
MotherEmmeline (?) de Chartres4,3,1 b. c 976
Last Edited6 Nov 2020
     Erard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres married Humberge de Broyes (?), daughter of Isembart (?) sn de Broyes et de Beaufort.3,1,5

Erard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres died circa 1064; Genealogics says d. 12 Feb 1061/1066.3,1
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 659.3

; This is the same person as ”Everard I of Breteuil” at Wikipedia.6 Erard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres was also known as Evrard I Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres.7

; Per Med Lands:
     "ERARD [I] de Breteuil, son of HILDUIN Comte de Breteuil Vicomte de Chartres & his wife Emmeline --- (-12 Feb [1061/66]). Robert II King of France confirmed the donation of "Manasses comes" to Chartres Notre-Dame by charter dated 4 Feb 1031, signed by "…Manasses comitis, Hilduini comitis fratris eius, filiorum eius Manassis et Hilduini, Burcardo de Montemorenciaco, Evrardi filii Hilduini de Britoglio, Amalrici de Monteforti, Milonis de Caprosa…"[36]. "Gelduinus" donated property by charter dated to [1038/40] which names "…filiorumque meorum Evrardi, Arduini, Hugonis episcopi…", subscribed by "Gelduini vicecomitis, Harduin vicecomitis filius eius, Ebrardi fratris eius, Gualerandi fratris eius…"[37]. Comte de Breteuil 1048. "Gelduinus…vicecomes" donated a serf to Marmoutier, for the soul of "meique filii Harduini", with the consent of "domino meo Tetbaldo comite…filio meo Ebrardo", by charter dated to [1046/64] signed by "Ermengarde comitisse, Gerduini vicecomitis, Ebrardi filii eius, Ebrardi filii Ebrardi, Hugonis fratris eius, Adeladis sororis eorum, Guarini Tyrensis filii…Ilberti filii Nivelonis, Fulcherii fratris eius, Girardi fratris eius…Hugonis vicecomitis, Hilgodi filii episcopi…"[38]. Vicomte de Chartres. A charter dated to [1050/60] confirms that "frater eius Ebrardus" succeeded on the death of "Harduini vicecomitis Carnotensis", and confirmed his father's and brother's donations[39]. “...Ebrardi vicecomitis Carnotensis...” subscribed the charter dated to [1061/65] under which “Wicherium filium Guicherii de castro Reginaldi” claimed rights in the forest of Blémars[40]. The necrology of Chartres cathedral records the death "II Id Feb" of "Ebrardus vicecomes Gilduini filius", stating that "Ebrardus filius eius et Hugo" donated property for his soul[41].
     "m HUMBERGE, daughter of ---. "Ebrardus, Carnotensium vicecomes" donated a family of servants to "Carnotensi monasterio Sancti Petri", for the souls of "uxorisque meæ Hunbergæ et filiorum meorum", by undated charter signed by "Ebrardi vicecomitis, Ebrardi filii eius, Hugonis filii eius, Huncbergæ uxoris eius…"[42]. Dion suggests that Humberge brought her husband the châtellenie of Puiset, on the basis that the appanage granted to a younger son frequently formed part of his maternal heritage[43]. An undated charter records that “Hugonem cognomine Bardulfum cum uxore sua Elisabeth” donated “terram in pago Carnotense...Soors” to Coulombs, and that after the death of Elisabeth “nepos eius...Hugo cognomine Blavons” [the son of Humberge] retook the land[44], which suggests that Humberge may have been the sister of the [second] wife of Hugues “Bardoul” Seigneurs de Broyes (see CHAMPAGNE NOBILITY)."
Med Lands cites:
[36] Chartres Notre-Dame, Tome I, XIII, p. 87.
[37] Marmoutier-Dunois XXI, p. 21.
[38] Grandmaison (1865), LI, p. 49.
[39] Marmoutier-Dunois, Cartæ Prioratuum Dunensium, CXVII, p. 111.
[40] Marmoutier (Blésois), I, XL, p. 51.
[41] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Eglise cathédrale de Chartres, Nécrologe du xi siècle, p. 7.
[42] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XXXII, p. 159.
[43] Dion ‘Les Seigneurs de Breteuil en Beauvaisis’ (1883), p. 201.
[44] Dion ‘Le Puiset’ (1889), p. 13.1

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#ErardIBreteuildied1061. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilduin: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164673&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Everard I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164675&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmeline (de Châteaudun): http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164673&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Humberge: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164676&tree=LEO
  6. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everard_I_of_Breteuil. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Evrard I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164675&tree=LEO
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#AdelaideBreteuilMRogerIIMontgommeryBelle
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues I Blavons: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00199407&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#HuguesIBreteuilChartresPuisetdied1094B
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Valeran I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164677&tree=LEO

Humberge de Broyes (?)1,2

F, #18843, d. after 1048
FatherIsembart (?) sn de Broyes et de Beaufort2 d. a 1026
ReferenceEDV30
Last Edited6 Nov 2020
     Humberge de Broyes (?) married Erard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres, son of Hildouin/Gilduin (?) Comte de Breteuil, Vcte de Chartres and Emmeline (?) de Chartres.3,4,5

Humberge de Broyes (?) died after 1048.5
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "ERARD [I] de Breteuil, son of HILDUIN Comte de Breteuil Vicomte de Chartres & his wife Emmeline --- (-12 Feb [1061/66]). Robert II King of France confirmed the donation of "Manasses comes" to Chartres Notre-Dame by charter dated 4 Feb 1031, signed by "…Manasses comitis, Hilduini comitis fratris eius, filiorum eius Manassis et Hilduini, Burcardo de Montemorenciaco, Evrardi filii Hilduini de Britoglio, Amalrici de Monteforti, Milonis de Caprosa…"[36]. "Gelduinus" donated property by charter dated to [1038/40] which names "…filiorumque meorum Evrardi, Arduini, Hugonis episcopi…", subscribed by "Gelduini vicecomitis, Harduin vicecomitis filius eius, Ebrardi fratris eius, Gualerandi fratris eius…"[37]. Comte de Breteuil 1048. "Gelduinus…vicecomes" donated a serf to Marmoutier, for the soul of "meique filii Harduini", with the consent of "domino meo Tetbaldo comite…filio meo Ebrardo", by charter dated to [1046/64] signed by "Ermengarde comitisse, Gerduini vicecomitis, Ebrardi filii eius, Ebrardi filii Ebrardi, Hugonis fratris eius, Adeladis sororis eorum, Guarini Tyrensis filii…Ilberti filii Nivelonis, Fulcherii fratris eius, Girardi fratris eius…Hugonis vicecomitis, Hilgodi filii episcopi…"[38]. Vicomte de Chartres. A charter dated to [1050/60] confirms that "frater eius Ebrardus" succeeded on the death of "Harduini vicecomitis Carnotensis", and confirmed his father's and brother's donations[39]. “...Ebrardi vicecomitis Carnotensis...” subscribed the charter dated to [1061/65] under which “Wicherium filium Guicherii de castro Reginaldi” claimed rights in the forest of Blémars[40]. The necrology of Chartres cathedral records the death "II Id Feb" of "Ebrardus vicecomes Gilduini filius", stating that "Ebrardus filius eius et Hugo" donated property for his soul[41].
     "m HUMBERGE, daughter of ---. "Ebrardus, Carnotensium vicecomes" donated a family of servants to "Carnotensi monasterio Sancti Petri", for the souls of "uxorisque meæ Hunbergæ et filiorum meorum", by undated charter signed by "Ebrardi vicecomitis, Ebrardi filii eius, Hugonis filii eius, Huncbergæ uxoris eius…"[42]. Dion suggests that Humberge brought her husband the châtellenie of Puiset, on the basis that the appanage granted to a younger son frequently formed part of his maternal heritage[43]. An undated charter records that “Hugonem cognomine Bardulfum cum uxore sua Elisabeth” donated “terram in pago Carnotense...Soors” to Coulombs, and that after the death of Elisabeth “nepos eius...Hugo cognomine Blavons” [the son of Humberge] retook the land[44], which suggests that Humberge may have been the sister of the [second] wife of Hugues “Bardoul” Seigneurs de Broyes (see CHAMPAGNE NOBILITY)."
Med Lands cites:
[36] Chartres Notre-Dame, Tome I, XIII, p. 87.
[37] Marmoutier-Dunois XXI, p. 21.
[38] Grandmaison (1865), LI, p. 49.
[39] Marmoutier-Dunois, Cartæ Prioratuum Dunensium, CXVII, p. 111.
[40] Marmoutier (Blésois), I, XL, p. 51.
[41] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Eglise cathédrale de Chartres, Nécrologe du xi siècle, p. 7.
[42] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XXXII, p. 159.
[43] Dion ‘Les Seigneurs de Breteuil en Beauvaisis’ (1883), p. 201.
[44] Dion ‘Le Puiset’ (1889), p. 13.4


; Per Wikipedia: "Everard married Humberge,[1] who may have been the sister of the wife of Hugh Bardoul of Broyes," citing La Monte, John L. (January 1942). "The Lords of Le Puiset on the Crusades". Speculum, pp. 100-101."2

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 659.5 EDV-30.

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Humberge: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164676&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everard_I_of_Breteuil. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Everard I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164675&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#ErardIBreteuildied1061. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Humberge: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164676&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#AdelaideBreteuilMRogerIIMontgommeryBelle
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues I Blavons: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00199407&tree=LEO
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#HuguesIBreteuilChartresPuisetdied1094B
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Valeran I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164677&tree=LEO

Valeran I (?) Sire de Breteuil1

M, #18844, d. after 25 February 1084
FatherErard I de Breteuil Comte de Breteuil, Vicomte de Chartres1,2,3 d. c 1064
MotherHumberge de Broyes (?)4,1,3 d. a 1048
Last Edited29 Jul 2020
     Valeran I (?) Sire de Breteuil died after 25 February 1084.1
      ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 659.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Valeran I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164677&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Everard I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164675&tree=LEO
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/cfrachacha.htm#ErardIBreteuildied1061. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Humberge: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164676&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Valeran II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164679&tree=LEO

Raoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy1,2,3

M, #18845, b. circa 992, d. 1060
FatherGautier II "le Blanc" (?) Comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois et du Vexin4,2,5,6 b. c 952, d. bt 1017 - 1024
MotherAdèle de Vermandois comtesse de Senlis, dame de Valois7,2,6,8,4 d. 1012
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited16 Apr 2020
     Raoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy was born circa 992.4 He married Adèle de Breteuil, daughter of Hildouin/Gilduin (?) Comte de Breteuil, Vcte de Chartres and Emmeline (?) de Chartres, circa 1020.2,3,4,9,10

Raoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy died in 1060.4
      ; Per Genealogy.EU: "Raoul II de Crépy; m.ca 1020 Adele de Breteuil (*1000 +11.9.1051), dau.of Hilduin de Creil, Vcte de Chartres."2



Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 657.4

; Per Med Lands:
     "RAOUL de Mantes, son of GAUTHIER [II] "le Blanc" Comte d’Amiens et du Vexin, Comte de Mantes & his wife Adela --- (-1060). "Walterius comes" donated property "prope nostrum castellum…Medanta" to "Carnotensi monasterio Sancti Petri", for the soul of "coniugis mee Adelidis filiorumque meorum", by charter to [1006], signed by "Walterii comitis, Rodulfi filii eius, Drogonis filii eius…"[1]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Rodulfum" as son of "Gauterus Albus de Albamarla"[2]. Robert II King of France confirmed to the abbot of Saint-Germain and Saint-Vincent that he had forced “noster comes Drogo...cum duobus fratribus Fulcone...et Rodulfo necnon uxore cum filiis supramemorati Drogonis” to renounce rights to revenue from “in villa...Domni Martini...” to Saint-Germain-des-Prés by charter dated [1 Jan/1 Mar]1031[3]. Comte de Valois et d'Amiens.
     "m [--- de Breteuil, daughter of HILDUIN [Gilduin] de Breteuil Vicomte de Chartres & his wife Emmeline de [Châteaudun] (-11 Sep 1051). The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not been identified. Du Chesne states that "Raoul frere de Dreux Comte de Vexin" married “la fille de Gelduin ou Hilduin Comte de Breteuil et de Clermont en Beauvoisin” who brought “la terre de Nanteuil surnommée de là Nanteuil le Hildouin en mémoire du Comte Hilduin son pere” but does not cite the corresponding primary source[4]. Du Chesne does not name her.]"
Med Lands cites:
[1] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLIII, p. 170.
[2] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[3] Paris Saint-Germain-des-Prés, Tome I, LII, p. 82.
[4] Duchesne (1621) Châtillon, p. 657.9


; Per Genealogics: "Raoul II was the son of Gautier II 'le Blanc' de Valois, comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois et du Vexin, and his wife Adèle. On the death of his father he shared the family heritage with his brother Dreux, who received Vexin and Amiens and remained faithful to the Capetingian King Robert II, whereas Raoul received the Valois and allied with the king's quarrelsome step-son Eudes II, comte de Blois, Chartres, Troyes et Champagne. The third brother Foulques was already bishop of Amiens. With his wife Adèle de Breteuil, daughter of Gilduin, comte de Breteuil, and Emmeline (de Châteaudun) he had three children of whom Raoul III would have progeny. He may also have had another son, Gautier, who was Seigneur de Guise in 1058. Raoul died about 1060."4

GAV-28.

; Per Racines et Histoire (Vermandois...): "Raoul II, comte de Crépy et de Valois + entre 1030 & 1038 (1037 ?)
     ép. Adèle de Breteuil-Ramerupt ° 1000 + 11/09/1051 (fille de Hilduin de Creil, vicomte de Chartres, comte de Breteuil, seigneur de Ramerupt, Clermont et Nanteuil, et d’Emmeline de Châteaudun)"
Per Racines et Histoire (Breteuil): "Adela (Alix) de Breteuil ° ~1000 + 11/09/1051
ép. ~1020/25 Raoul II de Crépy (Valois) ° ~993 + 1060 comte de Valois, Amiens, Crépy et Vexin (fils de Gauthier II «Le Blanc», comte de Mantes, Valois, Amiens et Crépy, et d’Adela de Vermandois.)11,12"

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul II de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139714&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page - de Valois: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul II de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139714&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gautier II 'le Blanc' de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139718&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfraamp.htm#GautierIValoisdied987. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  7. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I30674
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139719&tree=LEO
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#RaoulIIValois
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle de Breteuil: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139715&tree=LEO
  11. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 7: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf
  12. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs puis comtes de Breteuil, Vicomtes de Chartres, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Breteuil.pdf
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul III de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139712&tree=LEO
  14. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de NanteuilLe-Haudouin, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Thibaut de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00358832&tree=LEO

Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin1,2,3

M, #18846, b. circa 1015, d. 23 September 1074
FatherRaoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy2,4,5,6,7,3 b. c 992, d. 1060
MotherAdèle de Breteuil8,2,4,9,3 b. 1000, d. 11 Sep 1051
ReferenceGAV27 EDV26
Last Edited26 May 2020
     Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin was born circa 1015.10 He married Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube, daughter of Nocher III (?) Comte de Bar-Sur-Aube, between 1041 and 1045
;
His 1st wife, her 4th yhusband.10,7,11,12 Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin married Haquenez (?) hhéritière de Montdidier et Péronne before 1060
;
His 2nd wife.13,7 Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin and Haquenez (?) hhéritière de Montdidier et Péronne were divorced in 1060.13 Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin married Anna Agnesa Yaroslavna (?) Grand Duchess of Kiev, Regent of France, daughter of Yaroslav I Vladimirovich "Mudriy/The Wise" (?) Grand Duke of Kiev and Ingegarde (Ingeborg) Olafsdottir (?) Princess of Sweden, circa 1061
;
His 3rd wife; her 2nd husband.14,15,2,7,16
Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin died on 23 September 1074 at Peronne, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France (now); Med lands says d. 23 Feb or 8 Sep 1074.15,10,7,17
Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin was buried after 23 September 1074 at Eglise St. Pierre de Montdidier, Montdidier, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France; Med Lands says buried Montdidier, later transfered to Crépy-en-Valois, église collégiale Saint-Arnoul.
From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1043
     DEATH     23 Sep 1074 (aged 30–31), Peronne, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France
[Text copied from Wikipédia]
     Family Members
     Spouses
          Adele de Bar-Sur-Aube 1020–1053
          Anna Agnesa Yaroslavna 1036–1075
     Children
          Hawise de Valois de Mortimer 1039–1086
          Simon de Vexin 1048–1080
          Alix de Valois 1054–1093
     BURIAL     Eglise St. Pierre de Montdidier, Montdidier, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France
     Created by: relative
     Added: 26 Sep 2013
     Find a Grave Memorial 117693737.10,7,17
      ; Per Genealogics:
     "Raoul III was the son of Raoul II de Valois, count of Amiens, Valois and Crépy, and Adèle de Breteuil. A descendant of Charlemagne, he was count of Valois, the Vexin and Crépy. To this he added Bar-sur-Aube by marrying the heiress Aelis, comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube, who was a widow. However, after the marriage contract had been signed but before the nuptials had taken place, the knights of the château de Joigny passed her on to another nobleman. Raoul hurried back and captured both the château de Joigny and his bride, locking her up in La Ferté-sur-Aube long enough to assure him she was not pregnant. Again in his absence a local squire captured her. However, after she was rescued again the nuptials with Raoul finally took place and they became the parents of two sons and two, perhaps three, daughters.
     "After Aelis died, Raoul married a lady named Haquenez. However when King Henri I died and his widow Anna of Kiev became available, Raoul dismissed Haquenez and married the queen-widow. Haquenez complained to the pope of being 'despoiled of everything by her husband; she had been dismissed on a false charge of fornication'. Raoul was excommunicated, not for adultery but for incest. 'Contrary to the law, he had lain with the wife of the dead king, who was his cousin."10

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 657.10

; Per Wikipédia (Fr.):
     "Raoul IV de Vexin ou Raoul III de Valois dit aussi Raoul de Crépy1, mort en 1074, fut comte de Valois de 1038 à 1074, puis comte de Vexin et d'Amiens de 1063 à 1074. Il était fils de Raoul III de Vexin, comte de Valois, et d'Adèle de Breteuil.
Biographie
     "Il succéda à son père en 1038 et organisa la résistance du camp blésois à la mort du comte Eudes II face au roi Henri Ier. Capturé par l'armée royale en 1041, il change de camp et se rallie au capétien, favorisant sa politique en Champagne. Il participe ensuite à la bataille de Mortemer et n'échappe à la captivité que grâce à l'intervention de son vassal, Roger de Mortemer. Guillaume le Conquérant, un autre suzerain de Roger, lui retirera ses fiefs en représailles et Roger se réfugiera à la cour de Valois. Raoul continua à se battre aux côtés du roi de France et participera au siège de Thimert en 1057.
     "À la suite de la mort du roi Henri (1060) et de la régence qui suivit, les relations entre la France et la Normandie s'adoucirent, et une paix relative s'établit. En 1062, la mort du comte Herbert II du Maine, incita Gautier III de Vexin, un cousin de Raoul à revendiquer le Maine, mais il fut vaincu par Guillaume le Conquérant et mourut peu après. Raoul hérita alors du Vexin et d'Amiens, et reconstitua à son profit l'union des trois comtés, séparés par la mort de son aïeul Gautier II le Blanc.
     "Durant cette période, la Normandie prit de l'importance face aux capétiens, et Raoul, isolé par le scandale de son mariage avec Anne de Kiev, préféra s'allier au duc. Raoul mourut en 1074 à Péronne le 23 février selon certaines sources, ou à Montdidier le 8 septembre selon d'autres.
Mariages et enfants
     "Il avait épousé en premières noces Adèle (Aelis) de Bar-sur-Aube, fille et héritière de Nocher III, comte de Bar-sur-Aube, veuve de Renaud de Semur, de Renard de Joigny et de Roger de Vignory. Ils eurent :
** Gautier († 1065/1067), comte de Bar-sur-Aube.
** Élisabeth de Valois ou (Adélaïde de Crépy ?)(°1048 - † entre 1093 et 1101), mariée à Barthélemy de Broyes, sire de Broyes
** Adélaïde de Valois, comtesse de Valois, mariée en premières noces à Herbert IV (v.1032 † v. 1080), comte de Vermandois, et en secondes noces à Thibaut III, comte de Blois, de Chartres, de Tours, de Châteaudun, de Provins, de Troyes et de Meaux2.
** Simon († 1082), comte de Valois, d'Amiens, de Montdidier et de Bar-sur-Aube.

     "Veuf il se remarie avec Aliénor ou Hannequez, héritière de Montdidier et Péronne.
** Hawise de Valois qui épousera Roger de Mortemer

     "Raoul la répudie en 1060 pour épouser vers 1061 Anne de Kiev, fille de Iaroslav le Sage, grand-prince de Kiev, et veuve du roi Henri Ier de France. Ce mariage fit scandale, car la veuve d'un roi de France issue d'une famille régnante ne saurait épouser un vassal, et la reine dut quitter la cour. Ce mariage isola également politiquement Raoul, et l'affaire alla même jusqu'à l'excommunication.
Liens internes
** Liste des comtes d'Amiens: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_comtes_d%27Amiens
** Histoire d'Amiens: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_d%27Amiens
Liens externes
** Le comte Raoul de Valois dit de Crépy [archive]: http://www.histoireaisne.fr/memoires_numerises/chapitres/tome_18/Tome_018_page_082.pdf
Notes et références
1. Généalogie de Raoul de Valois sur le site Medieval Lands [archive]: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#RaoulIIIValoisdied1074
2. Bautier, Robert-Henri (1985). "Anne de Kiev, reine de France, et la politique royale au XIe siècle: Étude critique de la documentation". Revue des études slaves. 57 (4): 539–64, p. 553-554."18

; Per Med Lands:
     "RAOUL [III] “le Grand” de Valois (-Péronne 23 Feb or 8 Sep 1074, bur Montdidier, later transferred to Crépy-en-Valois, église collégiale Saint-Arnoul). The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Rodulfum" as son of "Rodulfum [filii Gauteri Albus de Albamarla]"[5]. He succeeded [1030/35] as Comte de Valois. He headed the resistance to Henri I King of France from the death of Eudes II Comte de Blois in 1038, and as such led the campaigns of Beauvaisis in 1041[6]. He succeeded his cousin Gauthier [III] as Comte d'Amiens et du Vexin. "Comes Rodulfus et filius meus Walterus et Simon…" donated property to Montiérender by undated charter[7]. First conseiller in the royal council, he was one of the most powerful and influential nobles in the kingdom. He was excommunicated because of the scandal of his third marriage, he reappeared at court only in 1070. "Rodulphus…Ambianensis comes" donated property “ad Conteiense castellum” to Sainte-Marie d'Amiens, with the consent of "Simon filius meus et Gualterus, Gualteri Tyrelli natus", by charter dated 1069, subscribed by "Radulphus comes, Anna uxor eius, Gualterus Tirelli filius, Symon comitis filius..."[8]. The consent given by Gauthier Tirell suggests that he and Comte Raoul [III] held an interest in the property at Conty jointly, but if this is correct the family relationship between them has not been traced. "Symon comes Barrensium" donated property to the abbey of Molesme for the souls of "parentum suorum Radulfi…comitis et Walterii fratris suis et matris sue Adele" by undated charter, the entry stating that "Radulfus comes" died "VIII Kal Mar"[9].
     "m firstly ([1041/45]) as her fourth husband, AELIS de Bar-sur-Aube, widow firstly of RENAUD de Semur-en-Brionnais, secondly of RENARD Comte de Joigny and thirdly of ROGER [I] avoué de Vignory, daughter and heiress of NOCHER [II] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Vitry-en-Perthois & his wife --- (([1020/25]-11 Sep 1053). The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Adala" wife of "comitis Veromandie [error for Valois] Rodolfi" and mother of "Symonem et filiam…Adala", but does not give her origin[10]. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Archardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[11]. Her marital history is recorded in the Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois: after the death of her first husband, "Rodulfus comes Calvimontis Vallis Cassini" [identified as her future fourth husband] visited "castellum Barri" who proposed marriage, the ceremony to take place after his return from a pilgrimage to Rome, but as the proposal displeased "primoribus terræ illius" they married her during Raoul’s absence to "Rainardo comiti de Jooniaco". After Raoul returned, he besieged "Jooniacum castellum" and abducted Aelis to "castello Firmitatis", wanting to assure himself that she was not pregnant before marrying her. While there, the inhabitants of Bar-sur-Aube married her again to "Rotgerio de Wangionis ripa", after which Raoul ravaged the countryside until they returned Aelis to him[12]. Her son "Symon comes Barrensium" donated property to the abbey of Molesme for the souls of "parentum suorum Radulfi…comitis et Walterii fratris suis et matris sue Adele" by undated charter[13]. "Symon comes Barrensium" donated property to the abbey of Molesme for the souls of "parentum suorum Radulfi…comitis et Walterii fratris suis et matris sue Adele" by undated charter, the entry stating that "Adelina comitissa" died "III Id Sep"[14].
     "m secondly (repudiated 1060) ---["Haquenez"], daughter of ---. Europäische Stammtafeln names “Haquenez” as second wife of Raoul [III], adding that she was repudiated and died after 1061[15]. The primary source which confirms her name has not been identified. She is named as such in numerous secondary sources published over the last two centuries, which sometimes also call her “Eléonore”, but none has been found which cites a primary source providing the basis for these names. Pope Alexander II wrote to Gervais Archbishop of Reims in 1062 recording that "comes Radulfus" had repudiated his (unnamed) wife on false charges of adultery and requiring him to take her back[16].
     "m thirdly ([1061]) as her second husband, ANNA Iaroslavna, widow of HENRI I King of France, daughter of IAROSLAV I Vladimirovich "Mudriy/the Wise" Grand Prince of Kiev & his second wife Ingigerd Olafsdottir of Sweden (1036-5 Sep ([1075/78], bur Abbaye Villiers near La-Ferté-Alais). The Liber Modernorum Regum Francorum records the marriage of "filiam regis Russorum Annam" with King Henri[17]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Anna filia Georgii regis Sclavonum" as wife of King Henri[18]. Consecrated Queen Consort at Reims on her wedding day. Queen Anna caused a scandal in France by her second marriage and was forced to leave the court, although she returned after her second husband's death in 1074[19]. The Liber Modernorum Regum Francorum records the marriage of "Anna, Henrici relicta" and "Rodulfo comitis"[20]. "Rodulphus…Ambianensis comes" donated property to Sainte-Marie d'Amiens, with the consent of "Simon filius meus et Gualterus, Gualteri Tyrelli natus", by charter dated 1069, subscribed by "Anna uxor eius"[21]."
Med Lands cites:
[5] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[6] Kerrebrouck (2000), p. 69 footnote 40.
[7] Montiérender, 33, p. 162.
[8] Amiens, I, 5, p. 9, and Anne de France (1825), XV, p. 34.
[9] Molesme, Tome II, 14, p. 21.
[10] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[11] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[12] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[13] Molesme, Tome II, 14, p. 21.
[14] Molesme, Tome II, 14, p. 21.
[15] ES III 657.
[16] Anne de France (1825), p. 30.
[17] Hugonis Floriacensis, Liber qui Modernorum Regum Francorum continet Actus 10, MGH SS IX, p. 388.
[18] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1052, MGH SS XXIII, p. 789.
[19] Kerrebrouck (2000), p. 66.
[20] Hugonis Floriacensis, Liber qui Modernorum Regum Francorum continet Actus 11, MGH SS IX, p. 389.7
Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin was also known as Raoul III "The Great" de Vexin Count of Valois & Vexin.19 GAV-27 EDV-26 GKJ-27.

; Per Racines et Histoire (Vermandois...): "Raoul III «Le Grand» de Valois °~1010/15 + 08/09/1074 (Mondidier) comte de Crépy et Valois, puis d’Amiens, Pontoise, Mantes et Chaumont (Vexin, ~1063)
     ép. 1) Adèle de Bar-sur-Aube (alias de Vitry) ° 1000/10 + 1053 (fille de Nocher III ; veuve de Renaud de Joigny)
     ép. 2) Aliénor dite «Haquenez» (répudiée)
     ép. 3) Anna Yaroslavna de Kiev ° 1024 + un 5/09 entre 1075 & 1079 (fille de Yaroslav 1er Vladimirovitch ; veuve du Roi Henri 1er)"
Per Racines et Histoire (Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin): "Raoul III «Le Grand» de Valois + 23/02 ou 08/09/1074 (Péronne) comte de Valois (1030/35), comte d’Amiens et du Vexin (~1063, y succède à son cousin Gauthier III), Crépy, Mantes et Chaumont, tient tête à Henri 1er, Roi de France, à la mort d’Eudes II, comte de Blois (1038), X en Beauvaisis (1041), 1er conseiller du Conseil Royal - d’une grande puissance et influence, excommunié suite au scandale de son 3° mariage (donations à Montérendier, à Molesme)
     ép. 1) Aelis de Bar (-sur-Aube, de Champagne) + 11/09/1053 (fille et héritière de Nocher III, comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Vitry-en-Perthois ; veuve de 1) Renaud de Semur-en-Brionnais ; de 2) Renaud, comte de Joigny ; et 3) Roger 1er, avoué de Vignory)
     ép. 2) (répud. 1060) Alienor «Haquenez», héritière de Montdidier et de Péronne
     ép. 3) 1061 Anna Yaroslavna de Kiev (fille de Yaroslav 1er Vladimirovitch «Moudriy» («Le Sage»), Grand-Prince de Kiev, et de Ingigerd Olafsdottir de Suède ;
veuve d’Henri 1er, Roi de France.)3,20"

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul III de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139712&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 7: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  4. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page - de Valois: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de NanteuilLe-Haudouin, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul II de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139714&tree=LEO
  7. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#RaoulIIValois. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  8. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I10363
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle de Breteuil: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139715&tree=LEO
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul III de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139712&tree=LEO
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aelis: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139713&tree=LEO
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#AelisBarAubedied1053
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Haquenez: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198141&tree=LEO
  14. [S1426] Jiri Louda (Tables) and Michael Maclagan (text), Lines of Succession: Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe (NY: Barnes & Noble Books, 2002), Table 61: France - Early Capetian Kings. Hereinafter cited as Louda & Maclagan [2002] Lines of Succession.
  15. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Rurik 1 page (Rurikids): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/russia/rurik1.html
  16. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/RUSSIA,%20Rurik.htm#AnnaIaroslavnadied1075.
  17. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 16 April 2020), memorial page for Raoul III De Valois (1043–23 Sep 1074), Find a Grave Memorial no. 117693737, citing Eglise St. Pierre de Montdidier, Montdidier, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France ; Maintained by relative (contributor 47268827). at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/117693737/raoul_iii-de_valois. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  18. [S1742] Leo van de Pas, "van de Pas email 2 June 2005 "Bishop of Utrecht and an ancestor"," e-mail message from e-mail address (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/zQ-j0p4fclI/m/jiCi-Qiz4DUJ) to e-mail address, 2 June 2005, Raoul IV de Vexin: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_IV_de_Vexin. Hereinafter cited as "van de Pas email 2 June 2005."
  19. [S752] Marcellus Donald Alexander R. von Redlich, compiler, Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. I (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1941 (1988 reprint)), p. 120. Hereinafter cited as von Redlich [1941] Charlemagne Desc. vol I.
  20. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf
  21. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adélaide de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198144&tree=LEO
  22. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Blois-Champagne.pdf, p. 4.
  23. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, (Elisabeth) de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139474&tree=LEO
  24. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#ElisabethValoisMBarthelemyBroyes
  25. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Maisons de la Marche & de Périgord &Talleyrand-Périgord, p.3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/La_Marche-Perigord.pdf
  26. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#SimonValoisdied1080
  27. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 50-22, p. 51. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  28. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050026&tree=LEO
  29. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Raoul IV de Vexin: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_IV_de_Vexin. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).

Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube1,2

F, #18847, b. between 1020 and 1025, d. 11 September 1053
FatherNocher III (?) Comte de Bar-Sur-Aube3,4,5,6 d. c 1040
ReferenceGAV27
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube was born between 1020 and 1025.4 She married Renaud de Sémur-en-Brionnais, son of Geoffroi II de Semur baron de Semur-en-Brionnais and NN de Brioude, in 1040
;
Her 1st husband.7,3,4,8 Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube married Renaud/Renard de Joigny Comte de Joigny, son of Geoffroy I de Joigny and Alix/Adélaide de Sens Comtesse de Joigny, between 1040 and 1042
;
Her 2nd husband.9,3,4,10 Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube married Roger I de Vignory avoué de Vignory, son of Guy I de Vignory, between 1041 and 1042
;
Her 3rd husband, his 2nd wife.3,4,11,12 Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube married Raoul III/IV 'le Grand' (?) Comte de Valois de Crépy et de Vexin, son of Raoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy and Adèle de Breteuil, between 1041 and 1045
;
His 1st wife, her 4th yhusband.13,14,3,4
Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube died on 11 September 1053.3
Aelis/Adele (?) de Bar-sur-Aube was buried after 11 September 1053 at Abbaye Saint Arnoul, Crepy-en-Valois, Departement de l'Oise, Picardie, France; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1020
     DEATH     11 Sep 1053 (aged 32–33)
     French Nobility. Daughter of Nocher II Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Vitry-en-Perthois. Although she had been married thrice before she married Raoul she had no children from the other marriages.
     Family Members
     Spouse
          Raoul III De Valois 1043–1074
     Children
          Hawise de Valois de Mortimer 1039–1086
          Simon de Vexin 1048–1080
          Alix de Valois 1054–1093
     BURIAL     Abbaye Saint Arnoul, Crepy-en-Valois, Departement de l'Oise, Picardie, France
     Created by: Lutetia
     Added: 27 Apr 2014
     Find a Grave Memorial 128608535.15
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 657; 729a.3

; Per Med Lands:
     "AELIS ([1020/25]-11 Sep 1053). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Achardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[20]. Considering the date of her first marriage, and that she had several children by her fourth husband, it is unlikely that Aelis was born before [1020/25]. Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube. Her marital history is recorded in the Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois: after the death of her first husband, "Rodulfus comes Calvimontis Vallis Cassini" [identified as her future fourth husband] visited "castellum Barri" who proposed marriage, the ceremony to take place after his return from a pilgrimage to Rome, but as the proposal displeased "primoribus terræ illius" they married her during Raoul’s absence to "Rainardo comiti de Jooniaco". After Raoul returned, he besieged "Jooniacum castellum" and abducted Aelis to "castello Firmitatis", wanting to assure himself that she was not pregnant before marrying her. While there, the inhabitants of Bar-sur-Aube married her again to "Rotgerio de Wangionis ripa", after which Raoul ravaged the countryside until they returned Aelis to him[21]. Her son "Symon comes Barrensium" donated property to the abbey of Molesme for the souls of "parentum suorum Radulfi…comitis et Walterii fratris suis et matris sue Adele" by undated charter[22]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Adala" wife of "comitis Veromandie [error for Valois] Rodolfi" and mother of "Symonem et filiam…Adala", but does not give her origin[23]. "Symon comes Barrensium" donated property to the abbey of Molesme for the souls of "parentum suorum Radulfi…comitis et Walterii fratris suis et matris sue Adele" by undated charter, the entry stating that "Adelina comitissa" died "III Id Sep"[24].
     "m firstly (1040) RENAUD de Semur-en-Brionnais, son of GEOFFROY I Seigneur de Semur & his first wife --- de Brioude.
     "m secondly ([1040/42], separated) RENARD Comte de Joigny, son of GEOFFROY de Joigny & his wife Alix de Sens.
     "m thirdly ([1041/43], separated) as his second wife, ROGER [I] avoué de Vignory, son of GUY [I] de Vignory & his wife --- (-before 1057).
     "m fourthly ([1041/45]) as his first wife, RAOUL [III] Comte de Valois, du Vexin, d'Amiens et de Vitry, son of RAOUL [II] Comte de Valois & his wife [--- de Breteuil] (-Péronne 23 Feb or 8 Sep 1074, bur Montdidier, later transferred to Crépy-en-Valois, église collégiale Saint-Arnoul). The county of Bar-sur-Aube was transmitted to the children of Aelis’s fourth marriage."
Med Lands cites:
[20] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[21] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[22] Molesme, Tome II, 14, p. 21.
[23] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[24] Molesme, Tome II, 14, p. 21.4
GAV-27.
; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.16,17,18,19

; Per Med Lands:
     "RENARD . “Gaufridus comes” renounced rights over the village of Migennes which “domnus Gaufridus pater meus” had appropriated, in favour of the monastery of Notre-Dame et de Saint-Julien d’Auxerre at the request of “matris meæ Adhelaidis” and with the consent of “fratrum meorum Gilduini…archiepiscopi Senonensis et Rainardi”, by charter dated 1 Mar 1042[384]. Comte de Joigny.
     "m ([1040/42], separated) as her second husband, AELIS de Bar-sur-Aube, widow of RENAUD de Semur-en-Brionnais, daughter and heiress of NOCHER [II] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Vitry-en-Perthois & his wife --- (-1053). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Archardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[385]. She married thirdly ([1041/43], separated) as his second wife, Roger [I] avoué de Vignory, and fourthly ([1041/45]) as his first wife, Raoul [III] Comte de Valois."
Med Lands cites:
[384] Yonne, Tome I, XCIII, p. 178.
[385] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.10

; Per Med Lands:
     "ROGER [I] de Vignory (-before 1057). Ernest Petit quotes a short manuscript genealogy of the Vignory family, dated to the late 12th century, which lists "Domini de Vangionis Ripa: Rodulfus Barbeta, Normannus; Vuido; Rogerus…; Vuido Rubeus; Vuido; Vuido; Vuido; Bartolomeus"[829]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records donations by "Rogerus de Vangionis Rivo, Guidonis filius, cum uxore sua Mathilde et filiis"[830]. "Rotgerius castri…Wangionum rivus indigena et advocatus" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Etienne de Vignory with the consent of "seniorum meorum Hugonis…Lingonicæ sedis episcopi atque comitis Raynaldi, Gerardi quoque archidiaconi fratris mei…et uxoris meæ Mathildis…ac filiorum nostrorum Widonis, Gerardi, Rotgeri" by undated charter, dated in the compilation to [1030/32][831], charter dated to [1151/57] in the cartulary of Saint-Bénigne de Dijon[832], which is inconsistent with the date of Roger’s second marriage. "Rotgerius dominus castri...Wangionum rivus" replaced the canons installed by “patre suo Widone” at Saint-Etienne de Vignory by monks from Saint-Bénigne de Dijon by charter dated to before 1049[833].
     "m firstly MATHILDE, daughter of ---. "…Uxoris meæ Mathildis…" consented to the donation by "Rotgerius castri…Wangionum rivus indigena et advocatus" to the abbey of Saint-Etienne de Vignory by undated charter, dated in the compilation to [1030/32][834]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records donations by "Rogerus de Vangionis Rivo, Guidonis filius, cum uxore sua Mathilde et filiis"[835].
     "m secondly ([1041/43], separated) as her third husband, AELIS de Bar-sur-Aube, widow firstly of RENAUD de Semur-en-Brionnais and secondly of RENARD Comte de Joigny, daughter of NOCHER [II] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube & his wife --- (-1053). She married fourthly as his first wife, Raoul [III] Comte de Valois, du Vexin et d'Amiens. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Archardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[836]."
Med Lands cites:
[829] Petit, Vol. II, p. 434, quoting Bibl. de Troyes, ms. 1558, fol. 47 vo.
[830] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1037, MGH SS XXIII, p. 786.
[831] Vignory Saint-Etienne, IV, p. 34.
[832] Dijon Saint-Bénigne, Tome II, 332, p. 111.
[833] Dijon Saint-Bénigne, Tome II, 329, p. 110.
[834] Vignory Saint-Etienne IV, p. 34.
[835] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1037, MGH SS XXIII, p. 786.
[836] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.12

Family 1

Renaud de Sémur-en-Brionnais d. a 1040

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aelis: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139713&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aelis: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139713&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#AelisBarAubedied1053. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141446&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIIBarAubedied1019
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Renaud de Sémur-en-Brionnais: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198145&tree=LEO
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgdautun.htm#RenaudMAelisBarSurSeine1040
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Renaud: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198146&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chamsensjoi.htm#RenaudJoignyMAelisBarAube
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Roger I de Vignory: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198147&tree=LEO
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambasbol.htm#RogerIVignorydiedbefore1059
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul III de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139712&tree=LEO
  14. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#RaoulIIValois
  15. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 16 April 2020), memorial page for Adele de Bar-Sur-Aube (1020–11 Sep 1053), Find a Grave Memorial no. 128608535, citing Abbaye Saint Arnoul, Crepy-en-Valois, Departement de l'Oise, Picardie, France ; Maintained by Lutetia (contributor 46580078), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/128608535/adele-de_bar_sur_aube. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  17. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  18. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  19. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  20. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adélaide de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00198144&tree=LEO
  21. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Blois-Champagne.pdf, p. 4. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  22. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, (Elisabeth) de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139474&tree=LEO
  23. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#ElisabethValoisMBarthelemyBroyes
  24. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/La_Marche-Perigord.pdf, p.3.
  25. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#SimonValoisdied1080
  26. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050026&tree=LEO

Thibault I (?) de Valois, Seigneur de Nanteuil-le-Haudouin et du Donjon de Crépy1,2,3

M, #18848, b. circa 1017, d. after 1047
FatherRaoul II (?) Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et Crépy1,2,3,4 b. c 992, d. 1060
MotherAdèle de Breteuil1,2,5 b. 1000, d. 11 Sep 1051
Last Edited3 Nov 2020
     Thibault I (?) de Valois, Seigneur de Nanteuil-le-Haudouin et du Donjon de Crépy was born circa 1017.1
Thibault I (?) de Valois, Seigneur de Nanteuil-le-Haudouin et du Donjon de Crépy died after 1047.1
      ; Leo van de pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III/III 657.1 He was living in 1047.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Thibaut de Valois: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00358832&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page - de Valois: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Raoul II de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139714&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle de Breteuil: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139715&tree=LEO

Elisabeth de Châtillon1

F, #18849
FatherHenri I de Châtillon1
MotherErmengard de Montjai1
Last Edited6 Nov 2020
     Elisabeth de Châtillon married Thibaut II (?) de Crépy, son of Adam "le Riche" (?) de Crépy, seigneur de Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.1

      ; Elisabeth de Chatillon, dau.of Henri I, sn de Chatillon and Ermengarde de Montjay.1

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page - de Valois: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  2. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Nanteuil-Le-Haudouin.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

Adela/Oda de Vixen1,2

F, #18850, b. circa 970
FatherGautier II "le Blanc" (?) Comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois et du Vexin3,4,5,2,6,7 b. c 952, d. bt 1017 - 1024
MotherAdèle de Vermandois comtesse de Senlis, dame de Valois1,5,8,2,6,7 d. 1012
ReferenceGAV27 EDV27
Last Edited16 Apr 2020
     Adela/Oda de Vixen married Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan, son of Galeran/Waleran II de Meulan Comte de Meulan.9,2,6,10,7,11,12
Adela/Oda de Vixen was born circa 970 at Meullent, Normandy, France.1
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 3/4:701A.7

; Per Med Lands:
     "daughter . The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines refers to the mother of "Waleranni comitis [Mellentini]" as daughter of "Gauterus Albus de Albamarla"[51]. Yves de Chartres names "Gualterius Albus" as father of "matrem Gualeranni comitis"[52].
     "m HUGUES Comte de Meulan, son of GALERAN [II] Comte de Meulan & his wife --- (-after 25 Aug 1005)."
Med Lands cites:
[51] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[52] Yves de Chartres, Epistola 45, Patrologia Latina, Tome 162, col. 57.5
GAV-27 EDV-27.

Citations

  1. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I30671
  2. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Gautier II de Vexin: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautier_II_de_Vexin. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  3. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Sudeley Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gautier II 'le Blanc' de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139718&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  5. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfraamp.htm#GautierIValoisdied987. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  6. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 7: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00452396&tree=LEO
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adèle: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139719&tree=LEO
  9. [S812] e-mail address, updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I30670
  10. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Meulan, seigneurs de Beaumont (-Le-Roger) & Earls of Leicester, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Meulan-Beaumont.pdf
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00452395&tree=LEO
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#HuguesMeulanMdauGauthierValois
  13. [S812] e-mail address, updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I10365

Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan1

M, #18851, b. circa 965, d. after 25 August 1005
FatherGaleran/Waleran II de Meulan Comte de Meulan2,1,3,4 b. c 935, d. 18 Dec 967
ReferenceGAV27 EDV27
Last Edited16 Apr 2020
     Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan married Adela/Oda de Vixen, daughter of Gautier II "le Blanc" (?) Comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois et du Vexin and Adèle de Vermandois comtesse de Senlis, dame de Valois.5,6,7,1,8,3,4
Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan was born circa 965 at Meullent, Normandy, France.5
Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan died after 25 August 1005.1,3,4
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 3/4:701A.3

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Hugues 1er de Meulan + après 25/08/1005 (probablement pendant les guerres de Bourgogne) comte de Meulan (998) (souscrit charte 990/91 du roi Robert : don du village de Guiperreux (Hermeray, 78) à Saint-Magloire ; souscrit charte de Bouchard, comte de Paris, Melun et Corbeil : don de terres à Hernicourt (Ponthieu) à l’Abbaye de Saint-Valéry-sur-Somme ; nombreuses chartes royales ~1005 ; cité charte du don en 1035 de la villa de Turstain à l’Abbaye de Préaux par Guillaume fils du comte Robert)
     ép. ? de Valois (fille de Gautier II «Le Blanc» («Albus»), comte d’Amiens, Mantes, Valois et Vexin, et d’Adèle de France) (ce mariage fait de son mari à la fois le neveu d’Hugues Capet et du duc Richard de Normandie.)1"



; Per Wikipédia (Fr.):
     "Hugues Ier fut vicomte de Meulan à la fin du xie siècle.
Biographie
     "Né aux alentours de 965, il succéda à son père Galéran II. Il est cité comme vicomte de Meulan en 998 et pourrait l'avoir été dès 991, selon les Europaïsche Stammtafelm.
     "Il épousa Oda de Vexin, fille de Gautier II, comte de Vexin, d'Amiens et de Valois et d'Adèle, et eut :
** Galéran III († 1068), vicomte puis comte de Meulan
** Hugues II, vicomte de Vexin
** Hellouin, vicomte du Mantois, père d'un Richard de Meulan, cité en 1066.
     "Il mourut peu après le 25 août 1005.
Voir aussi
Articles connexes
** Liste des comtes de Meulan: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_comtes_de_Meulan
Sources
** (de) Detlev Schwennicke, Europäische Stammtafeln, vol. III.4, 1983, p. 700: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europ%C3%A4ische_Stammtafeln
** (fr) Comtes de Meulan [archive]: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Meulan-Beaumont.pdf."9



; Per Med Lands:
     "HUGUES [I] de Meulan (-after 25 Aug 1005). "…Hugo filius Waleranni comitis" are named as present in the charter dated 1035 under which "Willelmus adhuc puerulus…Roberti comitis filius" donated "Turstini villa" to the abbey of Préaux[1449]. Comte de Meulan 998.
     "m --- de Valois, daughter of GAUTHIER [II] "le Blanc" Comte d'Amiens, de Mantes, de Valois et du Vexin & his wife Adela ---. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines refers to the mother of "Waleranni comitis [Mellentini]" as daughter of "Gauterus Albus de Albamarla"[1450]. Yves de Chartres names "Gualterius Albus" as father of "matrem Gualeranni comitis"[1451]."
Med Lands cites:
[1449] Delisle (1867), Pièces justificatives, 12, p. 12, citing Gallia Christiana XI, instr. col. 200.
[1450] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 1062, MGH SS XXIII, p. 793.
[1451] Yves de Chartres, Epistola 45, Patrologia Latina, Tome 162, col. 57.4
GAV-27 EDV-28. Hugues I de Meulan comtre de Meulan was also known as Hugh de Meulan Count of Meulan.5

Citations

  1. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Meulan, seigneurs de Beaumont (-Le-Roger) & Earls of Leicester, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Meulan-Beaumont.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#GaleranMeulandiedbefore985. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00452395&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#HuguesMeulanMdauGauthierValois
  5. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I30670
  6. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Gautier II de Vexin: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautier_II_de_Vexin. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  7. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 7: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Valois: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00452396&tree=LEO
  9. [S4742] Wikipédia (FR), online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Hugues Ier de Meulan: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugues_Ier_de_Meulan
  10. [S812] e-mail address, updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I10365

Galeran/Waleran II de Meulan Comte de Meulan1

M, #18852, b. circa 935, d. 18 December 967
FatherGaleran/Waleran I de Chartres Comte de Meulan1 d. b 11 Nov 987
MotherLiegardis (?) Comtesse de Meulan et de Mantes,1 d. bt 12 Nov 990 - 991
ReferenceGAV28 EDV29
Last Edited16 Apr 2020
     Galeran/Waleran II de Meulan Comte de Meulan married an unknown person
; GAV28 EDV29. He was born circa 935.2
Galeran/Waleran II de Meulan Comte de Meulan died on 18 December 967.2
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "GALERAN [II] de Meulan (-10 Apr ----). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Comte de Meulan. The necrology of Saint-Nicaise de Meulan records the death "IV Id Apr" of "secundus Galerannus comes Mellenti benefactor noster"[1448].
     "m ---. The name of Galéran's wife is not known."
Med Lands cites: [1448] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Prieuré de Saint-Nicaise de Meulan, p. 239.1
; Per Racines et Histoire: "Raoul 1er de Cambrai +X 944 comte de Valois et Vexin
     ép. 2) Liégarde, comtesse de Meulan et de Mantes (veuve, elle ép. 2) Galeran 1er ."3

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#GaleranMeulandiedbefore985. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I30672
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin & Chaumont-en-Vexin, Ham, Saint-Simon, Sohier-Walincourt,, p. 6: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Meulan, seigneurs de Beaumont (-Le-Roger) & Earls of Leicester, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Meulan-Beaumont.pdf
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00452395&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#HuguesMeulanMdauGauthierValois

Amadeus de Grandson Sire de Grandson1

M, #18853, d. 1300
FatherPierre I de Grandson Seigneur de Grandson2,3 b. b 1195, d. bt 1263 - 1268
MotherAgnes (?) de Neuchâtel4 b. c 1205, d. a 31 Aug 1263
Last Edited6 Mar 2020
     Amadeus de Grandson Sire de Grandson married Benoite de la Tour de Gerenstein.

Amadeus de Grandson Sire de Grandson died in 1300.
Amadeus de Grandson Sire de Grandson died in 1300.1
     Amadeus de Grandson Sire de Grandson was also known as Amadeus Sire de Grandson.

Family

Benoite de la Tour de Gerenstein

Citations

  1. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I29544
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Pierre I de Grandson: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197132&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgkvaud.htm#PierreGrandsondied1257B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnès von Neuenburg: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00197133&tree=LEO

Robert Bourchier 1st Lord Bourchier1

M, #18854, d. 1349
FatherSir John de Bourchier Knt.1,2 d. 1329
MotherHelen (?)1
ReferenceGKJ18
Last Edited19 Apr 2003
     Robert Bourchier 1st Lord Bourchier married Margaret Prayers, daughter of Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible Hedingham, Essex and Anne de Essex.1,2

Robert Bourchier 1st Lord Bourchier died in 1349; died of plague.1
      ; ROBERT BOURCHIER, 1st LORD (Baron) BOURCHIER or BURGCHIER (E), so cr by writ of summons to Parl 20 Nov 1348; MP Essex 1329, 1330, 1332 and 1339; fought Battles of Cadsant 1337 and Crécy 1346 in Hundred Years War (envoy conducting peace talks 1347 and 1349), Ld Chllr 1340-41; m Margaret, dau of Sir Thomas Prayers, of Sible Hedingham, Essex, and d of plague 1349, leaving.1

; "Robert de Bourchier, who in the 4th Edward III. (1330-1), obtained a royal charter for holding a court leet at Halsted and in the 10th of the same monarch, had permission to impark his woods there. In four years afterwards this eminent person was constituted Lord Chancellor of England, with £500 a-year above the customary fees, for his suitable maintenance; and in the next year he had license to make a castle of his mansion-house at Halstead. Uniting the civic and military characters, his lordship was subsequently distinguished in arms, particularly at the battle of Cressy, where he was attached to the division of the army under the immediate command of the Black Prince. He m. Margaret, dau. and sole heiress of Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible-Hedingham, co. Essex, by Anne, dau. and heiress of Hugh de Essex, descended from a younger son of Henry de Essex, Baron of Raleigh, standard-bearer of England, and had issue,
John, his successor.
William, m. Eleanor, dau. and heiress of Sir John de Louvaine, and dying in 1365, left,
William, who was made constable of the Tower of London and created Earl of Ewe, in Normandy, by Henry V. His lordship m. Anne Plantagenet, widow of Edward, Earl of Stafford, and dau., and eventually sole heiress of Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester, son of King Edward III., and left at his decease four sons and a dau., viz.,
Henry, Earl of Ewe, of who hereafter, as Earl of Essex.
Thomas, bishop of Ely, and subsequently archbishop of Canterbury
William, Lord Fitz-Warine, see that dignity.
Anne, m. to John Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk.
Lord Bourchier, who had been summoned to parliament from 25 February, 1342, to 10 March, 1349, d. in the latter year, and was s. by his elder son, Sir JOhn Bourchier, Knt..."2 GKJ-18. He was 1st Lord (Baron) Bourchier on 25 February 1342.2

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Margaret Prayers1,2

F, #18855
FatherSir Thomas Prayers of Sible Hedingham, Essex1,2
MotherAnne de Essex2
ReferenceGKJ18
Last Edited19 Apr 2003
     Margaret Prayers married Robert Bourchier 1st Lord Bourchier, son of Sir John de Bourchier Knt. and Helen (?).1,2

      ; "Margaret, dau. and sole heiress of Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible-Hedingham, co. Essex, by Anne, dau. and heiress of Hugh de Essex, descended from a younger son of Henry de Essex, Baron of Raleigh, standard-bearer of England."2 GKJ-18.

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Nocher III (?) Comte de Bar-Sur-Aube1,2,3

M, #18856, d. circa 1040
FatherNocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube2 b. c 952, d. a 1019
MotherAdelise/Aelis (?) de Soissons4,2 b. c 980
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Nocher III (?) Comte de Bar-Sur-Aube died circa 1040; Genealogics and Wikipedia say d. ca 1040; Med Lands says d. 1019/1040.2,5,3
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 729a.2

; Per Med Lands:
     "NOCHER [II], son of NOCHER [I] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube & his wife Adelisa --- (-[1019/40]). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, names "alius Nocherius, Wido…clericus, frater eius" as the two sons of "Nocherius comes Suessionem"[16]. His parentage is confirmed by the charter dated 1011 under which "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny, subscribed by "…Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse"[17]. Comte de Bar-sur-Aube.
     "m ---. The name of Nocher’s wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[16] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[17] Flavigny 42, p. 106.3
GAV-29.
; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.6,7,5,8

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Valois 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/valois1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141446&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIIBarAubedied1019. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelise: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141444&tree=LEO
  5. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Aelis: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139713&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#AelisBarAubedied1053

Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible Hedingham, Essex1

M, #18857
ReferenceGKJ19
Last Edited19 Apr 2003
     Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible Hedingham, Essex married Anne de Essex, daughter of Hugh de Essex of North Weald, Essex.2

     GKJ-19.

Sir Thomas Prayers of Sible Hedingham, Essex lived at Sible Hedingham, co. Essex, England.1

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons1,2

M, #18858, b. after 955, d. after 13 June 989
FatherAdalbert/Albert I "The Pious" (?) Comte de Vermandois3,4 b. c 915, d. 8 Sep 987
MotherGerberga (?) de Lorraine3,4 b. c 935, d. a 7 Sep 978
ReferenceGAV27
Last Edited20 Apr 2020
     Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons married Adelaide (?) de Soissons, daughter of Giselbert (?) Count de Soissons.1
Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons was born after 955.3
Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons died after 13 June 989.1
     GAV-27 EDV-29 GKJ-29.

; NB: There is disagreement as to the parents of Gui I de Vermandois (ca955-989), m. Adelise/Aelis de Soissons: Was he the son of Heribert II or Heribert's grandson (son of Heribert's son Adalbert I)?
     Genealogy.EU and Racines et Histoire both show Gui as the son of Adalbert I. Neither of these cite sources.
     Med Lands shows Gui as the son of Heribert II (brother of Adalbert I). Med Lands cites:
-- RHGF, Tome IX, XXIV, p. 634, 654
-- Gallia Christiana, Tome X, Instrumenta, col. 359.
-- Gerbert, 40, p. 38.

     Genealogics Shows a "Gui, Come de Soisson", without parents (m. Adliese, Comtesse de Soisson). Genealogics cites:
-- Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.)
3:729a

Given the proposed dates for Gui I, I have chosen to follow the Genealogy.EU and Racines et Histoire lineage for him. GA Vaut [See Note Per Med Lands].4,5,6,7,8

; Per Med Lands:
     "GUY [I], son of [HERIBERT [II] Comte de Vermandois & his wife Adela [Capet]] (-after [986]). Dormay, in his Histoire de la ville de Soissons, records that "M. Renaut…dit avoir vu un manuscrit de Sainte-Croix d’Offemont, lequel ne se trouve plus" in which "Guy Comte de Soissons est appellé fils de Heribert Comte de Vermandois"[647]. Comte de Soissons. "…Wido comes…" confirmed the charter dated Jun 974 under which Lothaire King of the West Franks confirmed the privileges of the monastery of Saint-Thierry near Reims[648]. Lothaire King of the West Franks confirmed the privileges of the monastery of Saint-Eloy de Noyon, established by "piæ memoriæ nepos noster Lyudulfus Noviomanorum episcopus…assentientibus fratribus suis nepotibus nostris Alberto Viromandensi comite et Guidone", by charter dated to [980/986], signed by "Alberti Viromandensis comitis, Guidonis fratris eius…"[649]. "Adalbertus comes, Heriberti comitis, Vidonis comitis…" subscribed the charter dated to [980] under which "Adalbertus comes…in meo Virodumensi comitatu" founded the abbey of Mont-Saint-Quentin near Péronne[650]. He visited Rome in the mid-980s: Gerbert requested "Stephano Romanæ æcclesiæ diacono" to return books to him by "Guidonem Suessonicum comitem", dated to late 984[651].
     "m as her first husband, ADELISA, daughter of GILBERT/GISELBERT Comte & his wife ---. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Nocherius seu Nocherus, Achardi f[ilius" married in 992 "Alaidem comitissam Suessionensem, filiam comitis Gilberti, viduam Guidonis Viromanduensis, et matrem Rainaudi comitis Suessionensem"[652]. If this is correct, she married secondly (992) Nocher [I] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube. However, according to Europäische Stammtafeln[653], the wife of Comte Nocher was the daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons, although the primary source on which this is based is unknown. The identity of Adelisa’s supposed father has not been traced.] "
Med Lands cites:
[647] Dormay (1664), Vol. II, Livre V, Chap. I, p. 3.
[648] RHGF, Tome IX, XXIV, p. 634.
[649] RHGF, Tome IX, XLI, p. 654.
[650] Gallia Christiana, Tome X, Instrumenta, col. 359.
[651] Gerbert, 40, p. 38.
[652] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[653] ES III 729 A.9


; Per Genealogy.EU: "G2. Cte Gui I, *after 955, +after 13.6.989; m.Adelaide de Soissons (+1047 ??)3"

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Gui 1er ° après 955 + après 13/06/989 comte de Soissons
     ép. Adélaïde de Soissons + 1047."4

Family

Adelaide (?) de Soissons b. c 922, d. 1047
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  2. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 4: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  6. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfravalver.htm#GuySoissonsdiedafter986. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gui: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141445&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 10 April 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#GuySoissonsdiedafter986
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelise: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141444&tree=LEO

Adelaide (?) de Soissons1

F, #18859, b. circa 922, d. 1047
FatherGiselbert (?) Count de Soissons2 b. c 892
ReferenceGAV29 EDV29
Last Edited20 Apr 2020
     Adelaide (?) de Soissons married Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons, son of Adalbert/Albert I "The Pious" (?) Comte de Vermandois and Gerberga (?) de Lorraine.1
Adelaide (?) de Soissons was born circa 922.
Adelaide (?) de Soissons died in 1047.1
      ; Per Genealogy.EU: "G2. Cte Gui I, *after 955, +after 13.6.989; m.Adelaide de Soissons (+1047 ??)3"

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Gui 1er ° après 955 + après 13/06/989 comte de Soissons
     ép. Adélaïde de Soissons + 1047."4 GAV-29 EDV-29 GKJ-29. Her married name was de Vermandois.

Family

Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons b. a 955, d. a 13 Jun 989
Child

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#GuySoissonsdiedafter986. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 4: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

Giselbert (?) Count de Soissons

M, #18860, b. circa 892
ReferenceGAV30 EDV30
Last Edited20 Apr 2020
     Giselbert (?) Count de Soissons was born circa 892.
     GAV-30 EDV-30 GKJ-30.

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#GuySoissonsdiedafter986. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Nocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube1

M, #18861, b. circa 952, d. after 1019
FatherNocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube1,2,3 d. a 1011
MotherAdelaide (?)3 b. c 925, d. 1047
ReferenceGAV30
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Nocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube married Adelise/Aelis (?) de Soissons, daughter of Gui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons and Adelaide (?) de Soissons.4,1,5
Nocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube was born circa 952.
Nocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube died after 1019.6
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 729a.7 GAV-30.

; This is the same person as ”Nocher II, Count of Soissons” at Wikipedia.8

; Per Racines et Histoirce: "Adelisa de Soissons comtesse de Soissons
     ép. Nocher II, comte de Bar-sur-Aube (fils de Nocher 1er de Bar.)9"

; Per Med Lands:
     "NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, son of ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube & his wife [Achardia ---] (-after 1011). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Achardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[9]. Comte de Bar-sur-Aube. "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny by charter dated 1011, subscribed by " Fulco episcopus Sessionis civitatis, Beraldi nepotis eius, Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse"[10].
     "m ([992]) [as her second husband,] ADELISA, [widow of GUY Comte de Soissons,] daughter of [GILBERT/GISELBERT Comte & his wife ---]. "…Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse" subscribed the charter dated 1011 under which "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny[11]. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Nocherius seu Nocherus, Achardi filius" married in 992 "Alaidem comitissam Suessionensem, filiam comitis Gilberti, viduam Guidonis Viromanduensis, et matrem Rainaudi comitis Suessionensem"[12]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[13], she was Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons & his wife ---. It is uncertain which version is correct, but as noted below under Renaud Comte de Soissons there are indications that the Acta Sanctorum version provides a more credible explanation of events."
Med Lands cites:
[9] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[10] Flavigny, 42, p. 106.
[11] Flavigny 42, p. 106.
[12] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[13] ES III 729 A.10


; Per Genealogy.EU: "H1. Css Aelis de Soissons; m.Nocher II de Bar-sur-Aube (+after 1019.)11"
; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.12,13,8,14 He was living in 1005.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141443&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141441&tree=LEO
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540698. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelise: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141444&tree=LEO
  6. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher II: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141443&tree=LEO
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  9. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Soissons, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Soissons.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011
  11. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  12. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  13. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  14. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141446&tree=LEO
  16. [S1841] Leo van de Pas, "van de Pas email 24 Nov 2004 "Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 24 Nov 2004. Hereinafter cited as "van de Pas email 24 Nov 2004."

Adelise/Aelis (?) de Soissons1,2

F, #18862, b. circa 980
FatherGui 1 de Vermandois Cte de Soissons1,2,3 b. a 955, d. a 13 Jun 989
MotherAdelaide (?) de Soissons1 b. c 922, d. 1047
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Adelise/Aelis (?) de Soissons married Nocher II (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube, son of Nocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube and Adelaide (?).1,4,2
Adelise/Aelis (?) de Soissons was born circa 980.
      ; Per Racines et Histoirce: "Adelisa de Soissons comtesse de Soissons
     ép. Nocher II, comte de Bar-sur-Aube (fils de Nocher 1er de Bar.)5"

; Per Med Lands:
     "NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, son of ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube & his wife [Achardia ---] (-after 1011). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Achardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[9]. Comte de Bar-sur-Aube. "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny by charter dated 1011, subscribed by " Fulco episcopus Sessionis civitatis, Beraldi nepotis eius, Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse"[10].
     "m ([992]) [as her second husband,] ADELISA, [widow of GUY Comte de Soissons,] daughter of [GILBERT/GISELBERT Comte & his wife ---]. "…Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse" subscribed the charter dated 1011 under which "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny[11]. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Nocherius seu Nocherus, Achardi filius" married in 992 "Alaidem comitissam Suessionensem, filiam comitis Gilberti, viduam Guidonis Viromanduensis, et matrem Rainaudi comitis Suessionensem"[12]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[13], she was Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons & his wife ---. It is uncertain which version is correct, but as noted below under Renaud Comte de Soissons there are indications that the Acta Sanctorum version provides a more credible explanation of events."
Med Lands cites:
[9] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[10] Flavigny, 42, p. 106.
[11] Flavigny 42, p. 106.
[12] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[13] ES III 729 A.6


; Per Med Lands:
     "[ADELISA de Soissons . According to the Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of St Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, the wife of Nocher [I] Comte de Bar-sur-Seine was the widow of Guy Comte de Soissons who married Nocher as her second husband "en 992"[654]. However, according to Europäische Stammtafeln[655], the wife of Nocher was the daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons, although the primary source on which this is based is not known. It is uncertain which version is correct, but as noted below under Renaud Comte de Soissons there are indications that the Acta Sanctorum version provides a more credible explanation of events.
     "m NOCHER [I] Comte de Bar-sur-Aube, son of ACHARD & his wife [Achardia ---].]"
Med Lands cites:
[654] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[655] ES III 729 A.7


Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 729a.8 GAV-29.

; Per Genealogy.EU: "H1. Css Aelis de Soissons; m.Nocher II de Bar-sur-Aube (+after 1019.)9"
; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.10,11,12,13

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelise: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141444&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#GuySoissonsdiedafter986. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141443&tree=LEO
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Soissons, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Soissons.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#AdelisaSoissonsMNocherIIBarAube
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelise: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141444&tree=LEO
  9. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  13. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141446&tree=LEO
  15. [S1841] Leo van de Pas, "van de Pas email 24 Nov 2004 "Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 24 Nov 2004. Hereinafter cited as "van de Pas email 24 Nov 2004."

Nocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube1,2

M, #18863, d. after 1011
FatherArchard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube3,4,1,2 b. c 892, d. a 950
MotherAchardia (?)3,5,1,2
ReferenceGAV31
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Nocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube married Adelaide (?) in 992
;
Her 2nd husband.2
Nocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube died after 1011.2
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 729a.1

; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.6,7,8,9 GAV-31.

; Per Med Lands:
     "NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, son of ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube & his wife [Achardia ---] (-after 1011). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Achardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[7]. Comte de Bar-sur-Aube. "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny by charter dated 1011, subscribed by " Fulco episcopus Sessionis civitatis, Beraldi nepotis eius, Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse"[8].
     "m ([992]) [as her second husband,] ADELISA, [widow of GUY Comte de Soissons,] daughter of [GILBERT/GISELBERT Comte & his wife ---]. "…Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse" subscribed the charter dated 1011 under which "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny[9]. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Nocherius seu Nocherus, Achardi filius" married in 992 "Alaidem comitissam Suessionensem, filiam comitis Gilberti, viduam Guidonis Viromanduensis, et matrem Rainaudi comitis Suessionensem"[10]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[11], she was Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons & his wife ---. It is uncertain which version is correct, but as noted below under Renaud Comte de Soissons there are indications that the Acta Sanctorum version provides a more credible explanation of events."
Med Lands cites:
[7] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[8] Flavigny, 42, p. 106.
[9] Flavigny 42, p. 106.
[10] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[11] ES III 729 A.10
He was living in 1003.1

Family

Adelaide (?) b. c 925, d. 1047
Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141441&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540698. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011A
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de la Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141440&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  9. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141443&tree=LEO

Adelaide (?)

F, #18864, b. circa 925, d. 1047
ReferenceGAV30 EDV29
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Adelaide (?) was born circa 925. She married Nocher I (?) Comte de Bar-sur-Aube, son of Archard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube and Achardia (?), in 992
;
Her 2nd husband.1
Adelaide (?) died in 1047.
      ; Per Med Lands:
     "NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, son of ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube & his wife [Achardia ---] (-after 1011). The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Rodulpho (Simonis genitori)" married three wives, firstly "Adela, Nocheri Barrensis ad Albam comitis filia, Notheri comitis Suessionum neptis, Achardi proneptis" who had previously married "Rainaldum de Sinemuro, Rainardum comitem de Jooniaco, Rotgerium de Wangionis ripa"[7]. Comte de Bar-sur-Aube. "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny by charter dated 1011, subscribed by " Fulco episcopus Sessionis civitatis, Beraldi nepotis eius, Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse"[8].
     "m ([992]) [as her second husband,] ADELISA, [widow of GUY Comte de Soissons,] daughter of [GILBERT/GISELBERT Comte & his wife ---]. "…Notcherii comitis, Notcherii filii eius, Adelise comitisse" subscribed the charter dated 1011 under which "Fulchone Suessionis episcopo ac comite Notcherio fratribus" supported a donation by "Vualterius Eduorum…episcopus" of property to the abbey of Flavigny[9]. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, records that "Nocherius seu Nocherus, Achardi filius" married in 992 "Alaidem comitissam Suessionensem, filiam comitis Gilberti, viduam Guidonis Viromanduensis, et matrem Rainaudi comitis Suessionensem"[10]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[11], she was Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons & his wife ---. It is uncertain which version is correct, but as noted below under Renaud Comte de Soissons there are indications that the Acta Sanctorum version provides a more credible explanation of events."
Med Lands cites:
[7] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[8] Flavigny, 42, p. 106.
[9] Flavigny 42, p. 106.
[10] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[11] ES III 729 A.2
GAV-30 EDV-29.

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540698. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011

Archard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube1

M, #18865, b. circa 892, d. after 950
FatherRogenald (?)2
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited24 Dec 2020
     Archard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube married Achardia (?)3,1,4
Archard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube was born circa 892.
Archard (?) de la Ferté-sur-Aube died after 950.
     ; NB: There is a difference between the lineages for Nocher I as shown by Genealogics and by Med Lands.
A. Genealogics inserts one generation (highlighted) with an additional Nocher:
A.1 Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube m. Acharda
....A.2 Nocher I, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
........A.3 Nocher II, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube et de Soissons m. Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons
............A.4 Nocher III, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
................A.5 Aelis, Comtesse de Bar-sur-Aube
B. Med Lands omits generation A.2 (above):
B.1 ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube m. [ACHARDIA]
....B.2 NOCHER [I] de la Ferté-sur-Aube, Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. ADELISA
........B.3 NOCHER [II], Comte de Bar-sur-Aube m. NN
............B.4 AELIS, Ctss de Bar-sur-Aube
Conclusion: Med Lands reports a confusion over the wife of Nocher [I], saying some name her as the "widow of Guy Comte de Soissons", and others as "Adelisa Ctss de Soissons, daughter of Guy Comte de Soissons." This supposed confusion is clarified by the Genealogics descent which shows "Adelise, Comtesse de Soissons," dau. of Gui, Comte de Soissons, as the wife of Nocher II. Med Lands also places the date of death of B.3 Nocher [II] as 1019/1040, while Wikipedia states that Nocher II d. 1019 and Genealogics (as well as Wikipedia) state that Nocher III d. 1040.
     I have chosen to follow the lineage proposed by Genealogics. GA Vaut.5,6,7,8

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: III 729a.9 GAV-29.

; Per Med Lands:
     "ACHARD de la Ferté-sur-Aube . The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois, based on an undated manuscript of the abbey of Saint-Claude, names "Achardi" as the ancestor of the comtes de Bar-sur-Aube who are set out below, stating that he was "genere Normannum" and that he founded "Firmitatis ad Albam" [136].
     "m [ACHARDIA], daughter of ---. The Acta Sanctorum commentary on the life of Saint-Simon de Valois names "Achardia" as the wife of "Achardi"[137]. The name is improbable, as it appears to be the feminine version of her husband’s name."
Med Lands cites:
[136] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.
[137] Acta Sanctorum, September VIII, p. 720.4
He was living in 925.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de la Ferté-sur-Aube: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I44337
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141440&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#NocherIBarAubediedafter1011A. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de La Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=5
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540703
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocher_II,_Count_of_Soissons. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 24 Dec 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Achard de la Ferté-sur-Aube: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141439&tree=LEO
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nocher I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00141441&tree=LEO
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambarsein.htm#_Toc478540698

Sir Thomas Bourgchier Knt.1,2

M, #18866, d. 26 October 1491
FatherSir Henry Bourgchier Knt., KG, 1st Earl of Essex, 2nd Earl of Ewe1,2,3 b. 1406, d. 1483
MotherIsabel (?) of York1,2,3 b. 1409, d. 2 Oct 1484
Last Edited4 Jan 2009
     Sir Thomas Bourgchier Knt. married Isabelle Barre, daughter of Sir John Barre Knt. and Idoine Hotoft, circa 1472
; her 2nd husband.1,4,2 Sir Thomas Bourgchier Knt. married Anne Andrews, daughter of John Andrews Esq., of Baylham, Suffolk and Elizabeth Stratton, after 1488
; her 2nd husband; his 2nd wife.5,3
Sir Thomas Bourgchier Knt. died on 26 October 1491.2,3
     He was Constable of Leeds Castle at Leeds Castle, co. Kent, England.3

; van de Pas cites: Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 895.2

Family 1

Isabelle Barre d. 1 Mar 1488

Family 2

Anne Andrews d. 25 Jul 1520

Citations

  1. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 66. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Thomas Bourchier: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00321424&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Ludlow 13.ii: pp. 475-476. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Isabelle Barre: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00326748&tree=LEO
  5. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), LUDLOW 7, pp. 228-229. Hereinafter cited as Faris [1999] - Plantagenet Ancestry.

John Bourchier KG, KB, 2nd Lord Bourchier1,2

M, #18867, d. 21 May 1400
FatherRobert Bourchier 1st Lord Bourchier1,2 d. 1349
MotherMargaret Prayers1,2
Last Edited19 Apr 2003
     John Bourchier KG, KB, 2nd Lord Bourchier married Elizabeth Coggeshall, daughter of Sir John Coggeshall.1,2

John Bourchier KG, KB, 2nd Lord Bourchier died on 21 May 1400.1,2
      ; JOHN BOURCHIER, 2nd LORD (Baron) BOURCHIER, KG (1392), KB by 1380; fought in Hundred Years War Battle of Auray 1364, Govr in Ch Flanders 1384; m Elizabeth, dau of Sir John Coggeshall, and d 21 May 1400.1 He was 2nd Lord (Baron) Bourchier.2

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Rogenald (?)1

M, #18868
ReferenceGAV32
Last Edited2 Dec 2004
     GAV-32.

; a viking.1

Family

Child

Elizabeth Coggeshall1,2

F, #18869
FatherSir John Coggeshall1,2
Last Edited19 Apr 2003

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Sir John Coggeshall1

M, #18870
Last Edited19 Apr 2003

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Berners Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  2. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), p. 65. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.