Robert I de Peronne

M, #20251, d. circa 1028
FatherBernard (?) comte de Senlis,
ReferenceEDV29 GKJ29
Last Edited8 Nov 2020
     Robert I de Peronne married Adelise (?)
Robert I de Peronne died circa 1028.
     EDV-29 GKJ-29.

Adelise (?)

F, #20252
ReferenceEDV29
Last Edited19 Oct 2020
     Adelise (?) married Robert I de Peronne, son of Bernard (?) comte de Senlis,.
     EDV-29 GKJ-29.

Ivres I de Nesle

M, #20253
FatherRobert I de Peronne d. c 1028
MotherAdelise (?)
ReferenceEDV30
Last Edited8 Nov 2020
     EDV-30.

Family

Child

Beatrice (?)1

F, #20254
FatherBerault (?) Seigneur d'Apchier1
Last Edited25 Nov 2002

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Stuart Earls of Moray Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Pepin I (?) Cte de Senlis, sn de Valois1,2

M, #20255, b. between 845 and 846, d. after 28 January 893
FatherPepin II Quentin (?) Cte de Vermandois, sn de Senlis, de Peronne et de St.Quentin3,2,1 d. a 840
ReferenceGAV32 EDV32
Last Edited18 Apr 2020
     Pepin I (?) Cte de Senlis, sn de Valois married NN de Rennes.4 Pepin I (?) Cte de Senlis, sn de Valois was born between 845 and 846; Genealogy.EU (Carolin 1 page) says b. ca 845; Racines et Histoire says b. ca 845.1,2,4
Pepin I (?) Cte de Senlis, sn de Valois died after 28 January 893.2,1,4
     GAV-32 EDV-32 GKJ-32.

Reference: Leo van de Pas cites: Caroli Magni Progenies Neustadt an der Aisch, 1977. , Siegfried Rosch, Reference 104.2

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Pépin 1er ° ~845 + ~28/01/893 comte de Senlis et de Valois ép. ? de Rennes ° ~860."4

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Carolin 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/carolin/carolin1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Count Pippin: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020491&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Pippin: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020185&tree=LEO
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vermandois, Valois & Vexin, p. 3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Vermandois-Valois-Vexin.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.

Hugues d'Oisy Châtelain de Douai1,2,3

M, #20256, b. circa 1002, d. after 1051
ReferenceEDV29
Last Edited5 Nov 2020
     Hugues d'Oisy Châtelain de Douai married Adela (?) de Cambrai, daughter of Gauthier II (Wauthier) «Le Vieux» (?) de Lens, Châtelain de Cambrai and Ermentrude (?).3,4,2 Hugues d'Oisy Châtelain de Douai was born circa 1002.1
Hugues d'Oisy Châtelain de Douai died after 1051.2,3
     EDV-29 GKJ-29.

; Per Med Lands:
     "HUGUES Châtelain de Douai, son of --- (-before 26 Apr 1051). Châtelain de Douai. "Heustatii comitis, Roheri comitis, Huberti castellani, Hugonis castellani…" signed the charter dated 1024 which records the dedication of the crypt of Saint-Amé de Douai, in the presence of Baudouin V Count of Flanders[308]. "Major minorque advocatus, castellanus…Hugo" confirmed a donation to Saint-Amé by charter dated to [1035][309]. A charter dated to [1031/51] attests the submission of "…castellanus…Hugo…" to the church of Saint-Amé de Douai[310].
     "m ADELA, daughter of [GAUTHIER [II] Châtelain de Cambrai & his wife Ermentrude ---] (-before 1046). Her parentage is deduced from the Chronicon Sancti Andreæ which names "Walterus et pater eius Walterus et nepos eius Hugo"[311], assuming that "nepos" should here be translated as grandson. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage more precisely, and her name, has not been identified. A charter of Gérard Bishop of Cambrai dated 23 May 1081, which reviews the rights and obligations of the church of Saint-Amé de Douai, records donations by "Hugonis castellani et Adeline uxoris eius" and "Gualterus Duacensis castellanus…et Adeline filie eius"[312]."
Med Lands cites:
[308] Brassart (Douai) (1877) Preuves, I, p. 1.
[309] Brassart (Douai) (1877) Preuves, II, p. 4.
[310] Duvivier (1898), p. 182.
[311] Chronicon Sancti Andreæ, Castri Cameracensis I.6, MGH SS VII, p. 528.
[312] Duvivier (1898), p. 198.2


; Per Racines et Histoire (Cambrai): “De nombreuses sources confondent (peut-être à juste titre ?) ces deux générations d’Hugues [i.e. Hugues, father, and Hugues I. son] de Douai faisant de Fastré 1er d’Oisy le fils d’Hugues et d’Adèle de Cambrai.
Translation (by GA Vaut): "Many sources confuse (perhaps rightly?) these two generations of Hugues de Douai [i.e. Hugues, father, and Hugues I. son] making Fastré 1st of Oisy the son of Hugues and Adèle de Cambrai."3

; Per Med Lands:
     "[ADELA (-before 1046). Her parentage is deduced from the Chronicon Sancti Andreæ which names "Walterus et pater eius Walterus et nepos eius Hugo"[82], assuming that "nepos" should here be translated as grandson. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage more precisely, and her name, has not yet been identified.
     "m HUGUES Châtelain de Douai, son of --- (-1051 or after).]"
Med Lands cites:
[82] Chronicon Sancti Andreæ, Castri Cameracensis I.6, MGH SS VII, p. 528.4


; Per Racines et Histoire (Cambrai): “Adela de Cambrai + avant 1046
     ép. Hugues, Châtelain de Douai + ~1051 ou peu après”.3

Citations

  1. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I32502
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#HuguesDouaidied1051. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes & Châtelains de Cambrai, p. 4: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Cambrai.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#AdelaCambraidiedbefore1046
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#HuguesCambraidied1111B

Adela (?) de Cambrai1,2

F, #20257, b. circa 1002, d. before 1046
FatherGauthier II (Wauthier) «Le Vieux» (?) de Lens, Châtelain de Cambrai2,1 d. 1041
MotherErmentrude (?)2,1
ReferenceEDV28
Last Edited15 Oct 2020
     Adela (?) de Cambrai married Hugues d'Oisy Châtelain de Douai.2,1,3 Adela (?) de Cambrai was born circa 1002.4
Adela (?) de Cambrai died before 1046.2,1
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "HUGUES Châtelain de Douai, son of --- (-before 26 Apr 1051). Châtelain de Douai. "Heustatii comitis, Roheri comitis, Huberti castellani, Hugonis castellani…" signed the charter dated 1024 which records the dedication of the crypt of Saint-Amé de Douai, in the presence of Baudouin V Count of Flanders[308]. "Major minorque advocatus, castellanus…Hugo" confirmed a donation to Saint-Amé by charter dated to [1035][309]. A charter dated to [1031/51] attests the submission of "…castellanus…Hugo…" to the church of Saint-Amé de Douai[310].
     "m ADELA, daughter of [GAUTHIER [II] Châtelain de Cambrai & his wife Ermentrude ---] (-before 1046). Her parentage is deduced from the Chronicon Sancti Andreæ which names "Walterus et pater eius Walterus et nepos eius Hugo"[311], assuming that "nepos" should here be translated as grandson. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage more precisely, and her name, has not been identified. A charter of Gérard Bishop of Cambrai dated 23 May 1081, which reviews the rights and obligations of the church of Saint-Amé de Douai, records donations by "Hugonis castellani et Adeline uxoris eius" and "Gualterus Duacensis castellanus…et Adeline filie eius"[312]."
Med Lands cites:
[308] Brassart (Douai) (1877) Preuves, I, p. 1.
[309] Brassart (Douai) (1877) Preuves, II, p. 4.
[310] Duvivier (1898), p. 182.
[311] Chronicon Sancti Andreæ, Castri Cameracensis I.6, MGH SS VII, p. 528.
[312] Duvivier (1898), p. 198.3
EDV-28 GKJ-29.

; Per Med Lands:
     "[ADELA (-before 1046). Her parentage is deduced from the Chronicon Sancti Andreæ which names "Walterus et pater eius Walterus et nepos eius Hugo"[82], assuming that "nepos" should here be translated as grandson. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage more precisely, and her name, has not yet been identified.
     "m HUGUES Châtelain de Douai, son of --- (-1051 or after).]"
Med Lands cites:
[82] Chronicon Sancti Andreæ, Castri Cameracensis I.6, MGH SS VII, p. 528.1


; Per Racines et Histoire (Cambrai): “De nombreuses sources confondent (peut-être à juste titre ?) ces deux générations d’Hugues [i.e. Hugues, father, and Hugues I. son] de Douai faisant de Fastré 1er d’Oisy le fils d’Hugues et d’Adèle de Cambrai.
Translation (by GA Vaut): "Many sources confuse (perhaps rightly?) these two generations of Hugues de Douai [i.e. Hugues, father, and Hugues I. son] making Fastré 1st of Oisy the son of Hugues and Adèle de Cambrai."2

; Per Racines et Histoire (Cambrai): “Adela de Cambrai + avant 1046
     ép. Hugues, Châtelain de Douai + ~1051 ou peu après”.2

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#AdelaCambraidiedbefore1046. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes & Châtelains de Cambrai, p. 4: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Cambrai.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#HuguesDouaidied1051
  4. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I32503
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfracado.htm#HuguesCambraidied1111B

Winimar "le Fleming" (?)1

M, #20258, b. circa 1032, d. after 1086
ReferenceGAV27 EDV27
Last Edited25 Feb 2003
     Winimar "le Fleming" (?) was born circa 1032.1
Winimar "le Fleming" (?) died after 1086.1
     GAV-27 EDV-27 GKJ-28.

Family

Child

Godfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny1

M, #20259, b. circa 1010, d. between 1078 and 1080
FatherGodefroi III (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny1 b. c 995, d. 1050
MotherGisela (?)1
ReferenceGAV26
Last Edited14 Aug 2020
     Godfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny married Hedwige (Hadewide, Avoye, Adélaïde) (?) de Roucy, daughter of Ebles I “Fortis” de Roucy Count of Rheims & Roucy and Beatrix (?) Countess of Hainaut.2 Godfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny was born circa 1010.1
Godfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny died between 1078 and 1080.1
     GAV-26.

Citations

  1. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  2. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I32510
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Florennes & Rumigny, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf
  4. [S2149] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email #2 19 April 2007: "Query: the lords of Morialmé"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 19 April 2007. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email #2 19 April 2007."

Hedwige (Hadewide, Avoye, Adélaïde) (?) de Roucy1

F, #20260
FatherEbles I “Fortis” de Roucy Count of Rheims & Roucy1 b. c 988, d. 11 May 1033
MotherBeatrix (?) Countess of Hainaut1 b. c 998, d. bt 1016 - 1092
ReferenceGAV26
Last Edited14 Aug 2020
     Hedwige (Hadewide, Avoye, Adélaïde) (?) de Roucy married Godfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny, son of Godefroi III (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny and Gisela (?).2
     GAV-26.

Citations

  1. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  2. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I32510
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Florennes & Rumigny, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf
  4. [S2149] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email #2 19 April 2007: "Query: the lords of Morialmé"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 19 April 2007. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email #2 19 April 2007."

Nicolas I de Rumigny1

M, #20261, b. 1055
FatherGodfery IV (?) seigneur de Florennes et Rumigny1 b. c 1010, d. bt 1078 - 1080
MotherHedwige (Hadewide, Avoye, Adélaïde) (?) de Roucy1
ReferenceGAV25
Last Edited18 Jun 2020
     Nicolas I de Rumigny was born in 1055.1
     GAV-25.

Citations

  1. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Nicolas II de Rumigny: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027424&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Florennes & Rumigny, p. 3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Florennes-Rumigny.pdf
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#NicolasRumignydied1153. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

NN (?) de Hainaut, héritière du comté de Lommois1,2,3,4

F, #20262, b. circa 910, d. 952
FatherReginar/Regnier I "Langhals" (?) graf im Hennegau, duc de Lotharingie3,1,5,6 b. c 850, d. bt 25 Oct 915 - 19 Jan 916
MotherAlberade (?) of Mons ()7,1,5,6 b. c 870, d. 916
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited17 Jun 2020
     NN (?) de Hainaut, héritière du comté de Lommois was born circa 910.7 She married Berenguer (?) Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld circa 915.1,8,3,5,9,10,6
NN (?) de Hainaut, héritière du comté de Lommois died in 952.3
     GAV-28.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 68.8

; Per Med Lands: "daughter. Flodoard's Annals refers to the wife of "Berengarius" as "sororem [Gislebertum]" but does not name her[1691]. m BERENGAR Comte de Namur, son of --- (-before 946)."
Med Lands cites: [1691] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.6

; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 2): “Count Berangar in the Lommengouw (Lommagaus) - ca 907, +ca 946; m.ca 915 Symphoronia (+952), dau.of Ct Reginar of Hainaut, heiress of the county of Lomacensis.”


Per Genealogy.EU (Brabant 1): “B3. a daughter; m.Berengar, Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld”.3,11

; Per Racines et Histoire (Brabant): “? (fille) héritière du comté de Lommois (Lomacensis)
     ép. Berengar, graf im Lommegau et im Maifeld (Namur) + avant 946 ”.

; Per Med Lands:
     "BERENGAR, son of --- ([875/85]-before 946). The origins of Count Berengar are unknown. His birth date is estimated on the assumption that he was adult when he is named in the charter dated 907 (see below). Comte in pagus Lommensis. "Hludouucus…rex" confirmed the donation by "bone memoriæ Kisala illustris femina" of the abbey of Fosse "in pago Lominse in comitatu Perengarii" to the church of Liège with the consent of "…Kepeharti…comitis" by charter dated 26 Oct 907 in which among "fidelium nostrum" was listed "Purchart filius Vualahonis"[5]. Ludwig IV "das Kind" King of Germany confirmed a donation of property including "…in pago ac in comitatu Lummensi…cuius nunc adest comes Perengarius" to the church of Tongern at the request of "Kepehardus et Reginharius comites" and with the consent of "Albuini eo tempore illius comitis" by charter dated 18 Jan 908[6]. Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks restored Kloster Süsteren to the abbey of Prüm by charter dated 19 Jan 916 which names "fidelium nostrorum…Widricus comes palatii, Richuuinus comes, Gislebertus, Matfridus, Beringerius comites, Theodericus comes, Reinherus comes, Erleboldus"[7]. "Berengarii comitis Namurcensis" subscribed a charter dated 2 Jun 919 under which Gerard de Stave donated property to the abbey of Brogne[8]. Flodoard's Annals record that "Berengarius" captured "Giselbertum" (referring to the duke of Lotharingia) and only freed him after receiving "filiis Ragenarii fratris ipsius Gisleberti" as hostages, after which Giselbert ravaged the lands of "Berengarii, Ragenariique fratris sui et Isaac comitis"[9]. Count of the castle of Namur. The Vita Gerardi Abbatis Broniense records that "comes Berengarius Nammucensi castro præsidebat" and that he took Gerard under his protection[10].
     "m --- [von Maasgau], daughter of REGINAR [I] "Langhals" Graf `von Maasgau [Comte de Hainaut] & his wife Alberada ---. Flodoard's Annals refer to the wife of "Berengarius" as "sororem [Gislebertum]" but do not name her[11]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[12], she was heiress of "comitatus Lomacensis". Presumably this is suggested because both her father and her husband are recorded as counts "in pago Lominse", and on the assumption that her husband succeeded her father. However, this assumes that the "pagus" is identical with the county, and that each pagus was ruled by only one count at any one time. It is, however, clear from the development of the county structure in Germany that the counties were not geographically coincident with the pagi. References to two or three different comitati within one pagus are frequent in imperial diplomas, as are references to the comitatus of a single comes spreading into more than one pagus. It is not therefore a safe assumption, in the absence of further documentary proof, that Berengar owed his position in "comitatus Lomacensis" to his wife. "
Med Lands cites:
[5] D LK 55, p. 181.
[6] D LK 57, p. 183.
[7] Beyer, H. (ed.) (1860) Urkundenbuch zur Geschichte der, jetzt die Preussischen Regierungsbezirke Coblenz und Trier bildenden Mittelrheinischen Territorien (Coblenz), Vol. I, (“Mittelrheinisches Urkundenbuch I”), 159, p. 222, consulted at (12 Dec 2007).
[8] Rousseau, F. (ed.) (1936) Actes des Comtes de Namur de la Première Race 946-1196 (Brussels) ("Namur"), p. xxii, which refers to doubts about authenticity of this charter because of this geographical attribution which is atypical of the period.
[9] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.
[10] Vita Gerardi Abbatis Broniensis 3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 656.
[11] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.
[12] ES VII 68.10


; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg): “Count Berangar in the Lommengouw (Lommagaus) - ca 907, +ca 946; m.ca 915 Symphoronia (+952), dau.of Ct Reginar of Hainaut, heiress of the county of Lomacensis.”.12

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Brabant 1 page (Dukes of Brabant and Landgraves of Hesse): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/brabant1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Hainault: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120946&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Ducs de Brabant, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Brabant.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Brabant.pdf, p. 2.
  6. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#dauReginarIMBerengarNamur. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  7. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I31825
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Hainault: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120946&tree=LEO
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Berengar: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120945&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#Berengardiedbefore946
  11. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Dukes of Brabant and Landgraves of Hesse: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/brabant1.html
  12. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120947&tree=LEO

Berenguer (?) Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld1,2,3,4

M, #20263, b. between 875 and 878, d. before 946
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited17 Jun 2020
     Berenguer (?) Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld was born between 875 and 878; Genealogy.EU says nb. ca 907; Med Lands says b. 875/85.5,6 He married NN (?) de Hainaut, héritière du comté de Lommois, daughter of Reginar/Regnier I "Langhals" (?) graf im Hennegau, duc de Lotharingie and Alberade (?) of Mons (), circa 915.7,8,3,9,10,6,11
Berenguer (?) Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld died before 946; Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 2 page) says d. ca 946; Genealogics says d. bef 946.3,9,10
     ; Per Racines et Histoire (Brabant): “? (fille) héritière du comté de Lommois (Lomacensis)
     ép. Berengar, graf im Lommegau et im Maifeld (Namur) + avant 946 ”.

; Per Med Lands: "daughter. Flodoard's Annals refers to the wife of "Berengarius" as "sororem [Gislebertum]" but does not name her[1691]. m BERENGAR Comte de Namur, son of --- (-before 946)."
Med Lands cites: [1691] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.11

; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 2): “Count Berangar in the Lommengouw (Lommagaus) - ca 907, +ca 946; m.ca 915 Symphoronia (+952), dau.of Ct Reginar of Hainaut, heiress of the county of Lomacensis.”


Per Genealogy.EU (Brabant 1): “B3. a daughter; m.Berengar, Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld”.3,12 GAV-28.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 68.10 Berenguer (?) Gf im Lommegau, Gf im Maifeld was also known as Berengar (?) Comte de Namur.6 He was Count of Namur and Count in the Lommagau and Maifeld.13

; Per Med Lands:
     "BERENGAR, son of --- ([875/85]-before 946). The origins of Count Berengar are unknown. His birth date is estimated on the assumption that he was adult when he is named in the charter dated 907 (see below). Comte in pagus Lommensis. "Hludouucus…rex" confirmed the donation by "bone memoriæ Kisala illustris femina" of the abbey of Fosse "in pago Lominse in comitatu Perengarii" to the church of Liège with the consent of "…Kepeharti…comitis" by charter dated 26 Oct 907 in which among "fidelium nostrum" was listed "Purchart filius Vualahonis"[5]. Ludwig IV "das Kind" King of Germany confirmed a donation of property including "…in pago ac in comitatu Lummensi…cuius nunc adest comes Perengarius" to the church of Tongern at the request of "Kepehardus et Reginharius comites" and with the consent of "Albuini eo tempore illius comitis" by charter dated 18 Jan 908[6]. Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks restored Kloster Süsteren to the abbey of Prüm by charter dated 19 Jan 916 which names "fidelium nostrorum…Widricus comes palatii, Richuuinus comes, Gislebertus, Matfridus, Beringerius comites, Theodericus comes, Reinherus comes, Erleboldus"[7]. "Berengarii comitis Namurcensis" subscribed a charter dated 2 Jun 919 under which Gerard de Stave donated property to the abbey of Brogne[8]. Flodoard's Annals record that "Berengarius" captured "Giselbertum" (referring to the duke of Lotharingia) and only freed him after receiving "filiis Ragenarii fratris ipsius Gisleberti" as hostages, after which Giselbert ravaged the lands of "Berengarii, Ragenariique fratris sui et Isaac comitis"[9]. Count of the castle of Namur. The Vita Gerardi Abbatis Broniense records that "comes Berengarius Nammucensi castro præsidebat" and that he took Gerard under his protection[10].
     "m --- [von Maasgau], daughter of REGINAR [I] "Langhals" Graf `von Maasgau [Comte de Hainaut] & his wife Alberada ---. Flodoard's Annals refer to the wife of "Berengarius" as "sororem [Gislebertum]" but do not name her[11]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[12], she was heiress of "comitatus Lomacensis". Presumably this is suggested because both her father and her husband are recorded as counts "in pago Lominse", and on the assumption that her husband succeeded her father. However, this assumes that the "pagus" is identical with the county, and that each pagus was ruled by only one count at any one time. It is, however, clear from the development of the county structure in Germany that the counties were not geographically coincident with the pagi. References to two or three different comitati within one pagus are frequent in imperial diplomas, as are references to the comitatus of a single comes spreading into more than one pagus. It is not therefore a safe assumption, in the absence of further documentary proof, that Berengar owed his position in "comitatus Lomacensis" to his wife. "
Med Lands cites:
[5] D LK 55, p. 181.
[6] D LK 57, p. 183.
[7] Beyer, H. (ed.) (1860) Urkundenbuch zur Geschichte der, jetzt die Preussischen Regierungsbezirke Coblenz und Trier bildenden Mittelrheinischen Territorien (Coblenz), Vol. I, (“Mittelrheinisches Urkundenbuch I”), 159, p. 222, consulted at (12 Dec 2007).
[8] Rousseau, F. (ed.) (1936) Actes des Comtes de Namur de la Première Race 946-1196 (Brussels) ("Namur"), p. xxii, which refers to doubts about authenticity of this charter because of this geographical attribution which is atypical of the period.
[9] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.
[10] Vita Gerardi Abbatis Broniensis 3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 656.
[11] Flodoardi Annales 924, MGH SS III, p. 373.
[12] ES VII 68.6


; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg): “Count Berangar in the Lommengouw (Lommagaus) - ca 907, +ca 946; m.ca 915 Symphoronia (+952), dau.of Ct Reginar of Hainaut, heiress of the county of Lomacensis.”.5 He was living in 907; mentioned.10

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Brabant 1 page (Dukes of Brabant and Landgraves of Hesse): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/brabant1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Berengar: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120945&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Ducs de Brabant, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Brabant.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  6. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#Berengardiedbefore946. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  7. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Brabant 1 page (Dukes of Brabant and Landgraves of Hesse): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/brabant1.html
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN de Hainault: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120946&tree=LEO
  9. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Brabant.pdf, p. 2.
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Berengar: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120945&tree=LEO
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#dauReginarIMBerengarNamur
  12. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Dukes of Brabant and Landgraves of Hesse: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/brabant1.html
  13. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Milford Haven Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robert: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120947&tree=LEO

Berault (?) Seigneur d'Apchier1

M, #20264
Last Edited25 Nov 2002

Family

Child

Citations

  1. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Stuart Earls of Moray Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.

Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix1

M, #20265, b. circa 1015, d. between 1065 and 1066
FatherLouis I (?) Comte de Chiny2,1,3,4 d. 28 Sep 1025
MotherAdelais/Adélaïde (?)5,1 b. c 1000
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited10 Apr 2020
     Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix married Sophie (?) (?)1,4 Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix was born circa 1015.
Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix died between 1065 and 1066.6
     GAV-28.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.6

; Per Med Lands:
     "LOUIS [II] (-[17 Jan] before 1066). The Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium names "comitem Chisneiensem Ludowvicum, filum Ottonis comitis et patrem alterius Ludovici domni pontificis nostri Alberonis avi, Bullonienses, milites patris eiusdem ducis [=dux et marchio Godefridus, Gozelonis ducis filius]"[576]. Comte de Chiny. The necrology of Verdun Saint-Vanne records the death "XVI Kal Feb" of "Ludouicus comes"[577], which may refer to Louis [II].
     "m SOPHIE, daughter of ---. Europäische Stammtafeln names “Sophie, died 1078” as the wife of Louis [II][578]. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified."
Med Lands cites:
[576] Laurentii Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium 2, MGH SS X, p. 492.
[577] Verdun Saint-Vanne (1902), Necrology, p. 135.
[578] ES VII 42.4

Family

Sophie (?) (?) b. c 1015, d. 1078
Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120865&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120863&tree=LEO
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#OttoChinyB. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#LouisIChinydied1025B
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Katharina: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120864&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis II: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120865&tree=LEO
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnold II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120867&tree=LEO

Sophie (?) (?)

F, #20266, b. circa 1015, d. 1078
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited10 Apr 2020
     Sophie (?) (?) married Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix, son of Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny and Adelais/Adélaïde (?).1,2 Sophie (?) (?) was born circa 1015.
Sophie (?) (?) died in 1078.
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.3

; Per Wikipedia:
     "Louis II (d. before 1066), Count of Chiny (1025–1066), son of Louis I, Count of Chiny and Verdun, and Adélaïde de Saint Varme. He left very few traces in history and nothing is known about his reign.
     "Louis was married to Sophie. They had two children:
** Arnold I, Count of Chiny
** Manasses (d. 1068), a monk at the Church of St. Hubert.

     "Legend has it that Louis held hunting parties in his huge game park. Here, Thibault of Champagne established a hermitage and found a source of holy springs, and Louis built a shrine to the spring's healing powers. The shrine became famous, with many pilgrims who came to implore the grace of Saint-Thibault. Later, monks from Calabria, Italy, founded a monastery nearby at Orval at the invitation of Louis’ son Arnold.
     "Upon Louis' death, his son Arnold became Count of Chiny.
References
** Arlette Laret-Kayser, Entre Bar et Luxembourg : Le Comté de Chiny des Origines à 1300, Bruxelles (éditions du Crédit Communal, Collection Histoire, série in-8°, n° 72), 1986
** Medieval Lands Project, Comtes d’Ivois et Chiny "

[See Note Per Med Lands].4

; Per Wikipedia (Fr.):
     "Louis II de Chiny, fut comte de Chiny à partir de 1025. Il était fils de Louis Ier, comte de Chiny et de Verdun, et d'Adélaïde. Ce comte n'a laissé que très peu de traces dans l'histoire.
Mariage et enfants
     "Son épouse est inconnue. Louis avait eu pour enfants :
** Arnoul Ier, comte de Chiny
** Manassès, qui fut religieux.

Source
** Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), Villeneuve-d'Ascq, éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993, 545 p. (ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6)"

[See Note Per Med Lands].5

; Per Genealogics: "ES is wrong calling her Sophie"

[See Note Per Med Lands].3 GAV-28.

Family

Louis II (?) Count of Chiny & Ivoix b. c 1015, d. bt 1065 - 1066
Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120865&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#LouisIChinydied1025B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, NN: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120866&tree=LEO
  4. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_II,_Count_of_Chiny. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  5. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Louis II de Chiny: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_II_de_Chiny. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnold II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120867&tree=LEO

Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny1

M, #20267, d. 28 September 1025
FatherOtto/Otton I de Vermandois Comte de Chiny, Comte d'Ivois2,3,4 b. c 956, d. a 983
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited10 Apr 2020
     Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny married Adelais/Adélaïde (?) after 1014.5,6,4
Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny died on 28 September 1025; murdered.1,4
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.6

; NB: There is disagreement about the parentage of Louis I, Comte de Chiny (murdered 28 Sep 1025)
     Genealogics shows this Louis I as the son of Otto I, Comte de Chiny, Ermengarde, his wife. Genealogics cites:
Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.)7:42.

     Med Lands shows this Louis I as the son of Odo/Otto, Comte d’Ivois [Vermandois] & his unnamed wife. Med Lands cites:
-- Laurentii Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium 2, MGH SS X, p. 492.
-- Verdun Saint-Vanne (1902), Necrology, p. 146.
-- Verdun Saint-Vanne, 1898, XXXVII, p. 442-3.

     The English and French versions of Wikipedia both show Louis as the son of Odo/Otto, Comte d’Ivois [Vermandois]. These two entries cite:
-- Vanderkindere, Léon, La Formation territoriale des principautés belges au Moyen Âge, Bruxelles, H. Lamertin, 1902
-- Settipani, Christian, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, Villeneuve d'Ascq, éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993

For the present, I am pretty ambivalent on this, but have elected to follow the lineage as proposed by Med Lands. GA Vaut

[See Note Per Med Lands].6,4,7,2,3

; Per Med Lands
     "LOUIS [I], son of OTTO Comte d’Ivois [Vermandois] & his wife --- (-murdered 29 Sep 1025). The Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium names "comitem Chisneiensem Ludowvicum, filum Ottonis comitis et patrem alterius Ludovici domni pontificis nostri Alberonis avi, Bullonienses, milites patris eiusdem ducis [=dux et marchio Godefridus, Gozelonis ducis filius]"[571]. Comte de Chiny. The Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium records that Rambert Bishop of Verdun appointed "comitem Chisneiensem Ludovicum, filium Ottonis comitis" as count of the town of Verdun, presumably after the resignation of Friedrich, but that Gozelon Duke of Lower Lotharingia (brother of Friedrich) invaded the town with Baudouin Count of Flanders and murdered Louis[572]. The necrology of Verdun Saint-Vanne records the death "IV Kal Oct" of "Ludovicus ex comite monachus pro cuius anima habemus V mansos apud Geronis villam"[573].
     "m ADELAIS, daughter of --- (-after 1025). "Domina Adelaydis comitissa uxor quondam Hludovici comitis" donated property to Verdun Saint-Vanne by undated charter, subscribed by "Gislebertus comes"[574]. The subscription by Giselbert Comte de Looz suggests that Adelais may have been his close relative, maybe his sister. "Adelaydis comitissa uxor quondam…Ludouici comitis" donated property "per manum Gozelonis ducis atque Godefridi…et pro eius amore Dominique Frederici prefati ducis fratris" to Verdun Saint-Vanne by charter dated to [1038/40], subscribed by "dux Gozelo et eius filius Godefridus"[575]."
Med Lands cites:
[571] Laurentii Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium 2, MGH SS X, p. 492.
[572] Laurentii Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium 2, MGH SS X, p. 492.
[573] Verdun Saint-Vanne (1902), Necrology, p. 146.
[574] Verdun Saint-Vanne, 1898, XXXVII, p. 442.
[575] Verdun Saint-Vanne, 1898, XXXVII, p. 443.4
GAV-29.

Family

Adelais/Adélaïde (?) b. c 1000
Child

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120863&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis,_Count_of_Verdun. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  3. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Louis Ier de Chiny: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ier_de_Chiny. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#OttoChinyB. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Katharina: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120864&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120863&tree=LEO
  7. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 10 April 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120865&tree=LEO
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#LouisIChinydied1025B

Adelais/Adélaïde (?)1,2

F, #20268, b. circa 1000
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited10 Apr 2020
     Adelais/Adélaïde (?) was born circa 1000. She married Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny, son of Otto/Otton I de Vermandois Comte de Chiny, Comte d'Ivois, after 1014.3,4,1
     GAV-29.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.5 Adelais/Adélaïde (?) was also known as Katharina (?)3

Family

Louis I (?) Comte de Chiny d. 28 Sep 1025
Child

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#OttoChinyB. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Louis Ier de Chiny: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ier_de_Chiny. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Katharina: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120864&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120863&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Katharina: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120864&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis II: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120865&tree=LEO

Otto I (?) Comte de Chiny1,2

M, #20269, b. circa 942, d. 1013
FatherCount Arnold I (?)4,1 d. 982
MotherMathilde (?) Comtesse de Chiny3,1 d. 992
Last Edited3 May 2020
     Otto I (?) Comte de Chiny was born circa 942.2 He married Ermengarde de Namur, daughter of Albert I (?) Cte de Namur, Ct in the Lommengouw and Adelaide/Ermengarde (?) of Lorraine.5,1,2
Otto I (?) Comte de Chiny died in 1013.1,2
     ; NB: There is disagreement about the parentage of Louis I, Comte de Chiny (murdered 28 Sep 1025)
     Genealogics shows this Louis I as the son of Otto I, Comte de Chiny, Ermengarde, his wife. Genealogics cites:
Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.)7:42.

     Med Lands shows this Louis I as the son of Odo/Otto, Comte d’Ivois [Vermandois] & his unnamed wife. Med Lands cites:
-- Laurentii Gesta Episcoporum Virdunensium 2, MGH SS X, p. 492.
-- Verdun Saint-Vanne (1902), Necrology, p. 146.
-- Verdun Saint-Vanne, 1898, XXXVII, p. 442-3.

     The English and French versions of Wikipedia both show Louis as the son of Odo/Otto, Comte d’Ivois [Vermandois]. These two entries cite:
-- Vanderkindere, Léon, La Formation territoriale des principautés belges au Moyen Âge, Bruxelles, H. Lamertin, 1902
-- Settipani, Christian, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, Villeneuve d'Ascq, éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993

For the present, I am pretty ambivalent on this, but have elected to follow the lineage as proposed by Med Lands. GA Vaut

[See Note Per Med Lands].6,7,8,9,10

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.11

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Ermengarde de Namur ° ~957 + ~1010
     ép. Otto 1er de Chiny ° ~942 + 1013."12

; Per Genealogy.EU: "C4. Ermengarde, *ca 957, +ca 1010; m.Otto I of Chiny (*ca 942 +1013.)13"

Family

Ermengarde de Namur b. c 957, d. c 1010

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120861&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Mathilde: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120860&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnold I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120859&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ermengarde: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120862&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Louis I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120863&tree=LEO
  7. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#OttoChinyB. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 10 April 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  9. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis,_Count_of_Verdun. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  10. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Louis Ier de Chiny: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ier_de_Chiny. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120861&tree=LEO
  12. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Namur, p. 3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Namur.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  13. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html

Ermengarde de Namur1,2

F, #20270, b. circa 957, d. circa 1010
FatherAlbert I (?) Cte de Namur, Ct in the Lommengouw2,3 b. bt 959 - 970, d. b 1011
MotherAdelaide/Ermengarde (?) of Lorraine2,4 b. c 980, d. a 1012
Last Edited3 May 2020
     Ermengarde de Namur was born circa 957.2 She married Otto I (?) Comte de Chiny, son of Count Arnold I (?) and Mathilde (?) Comtesse de Chiny.1,5,2
Ermengarde de Namur died circa 1010.2
     ; Ermengarde, *ca 957, +ca 1010; m.Otto I of Chiny (*ca 942 +1013.)2

; Per Med Lands: "ERMENGARDE de Namur . The Vita Arnulfi names "Lugerdam, Godam, Ermengardam" as the three sisters of "Albertus comes Namurcensis"[63]."
Med Lands cites: [63] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.3

;      NB: Genealogy.EU and Racines et Histoire identify this Ermengarde who m. Otto I de Chiny as a dau. of Albert I and Ermengarde/Aleide. Genealogics shows this Ermengarde as marrying Otto I de Chiny, but shows no parents for her. The birthdate proposed by Genealogy.EU (0957) is too early for her to have been a dau. of Albert I (b. ca 959) and Ermengarde/Aleide (b. ca 980). Med Lands shows a dau. named Ermengarde for Alber I and Ermengarde/Aleide, but shows no dates or marriage for her.
     Conclusion: I have left Ermengarde as the dau. of Albert I and his wife for now, while I investigate further. GA Vaut.6,7,8,4,3

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VII 42.6

; Per Racines et Histoire: "Ermengarde de Namur ° ~957 + ~1010
     ép. Otto 1er de Chiny ° ~942 + 1013."4

; Per Genealogy.EU: "C4. Ermengarde, *ca 957, +ca 1010; m.Otto I of Chiny (*ca 942 +1013.)7"

Family

Otto I (?) Comte de Chiny b. c 942, d. 1013

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ermengarde: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120862&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2 page (The Luxemburg Family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#AlbertIdied1011B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Namur, p. 3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Namur.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120861&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ermengarde: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120862&tree=LEO
  7. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 2: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg2.html
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 3 May 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."

Sophia (?) von Rheineck, heiress of Bentheim1,2

F, #20271, b. circa 1115, d. 26 September 1176
FatherOtto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine3,2,4,5,6 b. 1059, d. b 12 Nov 1150
MotherGertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland2,4,3,7,6 d. b 1165
ReferenceEDV24
Last Edited1 Nov 2020
     Sophia (?) von Rheineck, heiress of Bentheim was born circa 1115.2 She married Dirk/Dietrich VI (?) Count of Holland, son of Florens/Floris II "the Fat" (?) Graaf van Holland and Geertruid/Petronilla (?) of Lorraine, before 1137; Leo van de Pas says m. 1137; Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4 page) says m. bef 1135.2,8,9,10,4,3
Sophia (?) von Rheineck, heiress of Bentheim died on 26 September 1176 at Jerusalem, Palestine.2,4,3
Sophia (?) von Rheineck, heiress of Bentheim was buried after 26 September 1176 at House of the Teutonic Order, Jerusalem, Palestine.2


     ; Per Genealogy.EU (Holland 1): “F1. Ct Dirk VI of Holland (1121-57), *The Hague ca 1114, +5.8.1157; m.before 1137 Sophie of Luxemburg, heiress of Bentheim (*ca 1117 +26.9.1176)”


Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4): “B2. Sophie, heiress of Bentheim, *ca 1115, +Jerusalem 26.9.1176, bur House of Theutonic Order, Jerusalem; m.before 1135 Ct Dietrich VI of Holland (+1157)”.8,11

; Per Med Lands:
     "DIRK ([1114]-5 Aug 1157, bur Egmond). The Annales Egmundani name "filios pusillos Theodericum, Florentium, Simonem" as the three sons of "Florentius crassus comes filius Theoderici" and his wife Petronilla[390]. The Chronologia Johannes de Beke names "Theodricum, Florencium, Simonem ac Hadewigim virginem" as the children of Count Floris & his wife[391]. He succeeded his father in 1121 as DIRK VI Count of Holland, under the regency of his mother during his minority. Beke's Egmondsch Necrologium records that "Lotharius imperator avunculus Theoderici" took "comitatus de Ostergon et Westergon" from the church of Utrecht and granted them to the county of Holland in [1126][392]. The Annales Egmundani record that "Theodericus comes Hollandensis" made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1138[393]. "Thedricus Hollandensium comes…cum conjuge mea Sophia comitissa et filio nostro Florentio" exchanged property with Epternach by charter dated 1156[394]. The Annales Egmundani record the death "1157 Non Aug" of "Theodericus comes filius Florentii crassi comitis"[395]. The Chronologia Johannes de Beke records the death "1157 Non Aug" of Count Dirk VI and his burial at Egmond[396].
     "m (before 1137) SOPHIE von Rheineck heiress of Bentheim, daughter of OTTO von Salm Pfalzgraf bei Rhein Graf von Rheineck und Bentheim & his wife Gertrud von Northeim (-Jerusalem 26 Sep 1176, bur Jerusalem, in church later called church of the Teutonic Knights). The Chronologia Johannes de Beke records the marriage of Count Dirk VI and "Sophiam filiam Ottonis de Rinegh comitis palatini"[397]. The Annales Egmundani name "palatinus…comes Otto de Rineke" as brother of "comitissæ Sophiæ Hollandensis"[398]. "Thedricus Hollandensium comes…cum conjuge mea Sophia comitissa et filio nostro Florentio" exchanged property with Epternach by charter dated 1156[399]. The Annales Egmundani record the visit to Jerusalem in 1173 of "Sophia comitissa Hollandensis et filio suo Ottone" and her death in 1176[400]. The Chronologia Johannes de Beke records that "Sophia comitissa" visited Jerusalem after her husband died and died there "VI Kal Oct" and was buried "ad hospitale Teutonicorum in Iherusalem"[401]. Beke's Egmondsch Necrologium records the burial "VI Kal Oct" of "Sophia…mater Florencii comitis" at Jerusalem[402]."
Med Lands cites:
[390] Annales Egmundani 1121, MGH SS XVI, p. 451.
[391] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 49a, p. 93.
[392] Beka's Egmondsch Necrologium, in Oppermann, O. (1933) Fontes Egmundenses (Utrecht), p. 108.
[393] Annales Egmundani 1138, MGH SS XVI, p. 455.
[394] Oorkondenboek Holland (1866), 133, p. 85.
[395] Annales Egmundani 1157, MGH SS XVI, p. 461.
[396] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 56, p. 117.
[397] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 52, p. 101.
[398] Annales Egmundani 1143, MGH SS XVI, p. 455.
[399] Oorkondenboek Holland (1866), 133, p. 85.
[400] Annales Egmundani 1173 and 1176, MGH SS XVI, p. 468.
[401] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 56, p. 117.
[402] Beka's Egmondsch Necrologium, in Oppermann, O. (1933) Fontes Egmundenses (Utrecht), p. 109.10


; This is the same person as:
”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_of_Rheineck” at Wikipedia and as
”Sofia di Rheineck” at Wikipedia (IT.)12,13

Reference: Genealogics cites: Genealogie der Graven van Holland Zaltbommel, 1969. , Dr. A. W. E. Dek, Reference: 13.3 EDV-24.

; Per Med Lands:
     "SOPHIE von Rheineck (-26 Sep 1176, bur Jerusalem, in church later called church of the Teutonic Knights). The Chronologia Johannes de Beke records the marriage of Count Dirk VI and "Sophiam filiam Ottonis de Rinegh comitis palatini"[1402]. The Annales Egmundani name "palatinus…comes Otto de Rineke" as brother of "comitissæ Sophiæ Hollandensis"[1403]. Heiress of Bentheim. The Annales Egmundani record the visit to Jerusalem in 1173 of "Sophia comitissa Hollandensis et filio suo Ottone" and her death in 1176[1404]. The Chronologia Johannes de Beke records that "Sophia comitissa" visited Jerusalem after her husband died and died there "VI Kal Oct" and was buried "ad hospitale Teutonicorum in Iherusalem"[1405]. Beke's Egmondsch Necrologium records the burial "VI Kal Oct" of "Sophia…mater Florencii comitis" at Jerusalem[1406].
     "m (before 1137) DIRK VI Count of Holland, son of FLORIS II "the Fat" Count of Holland & his wife Gertrude [Petronella] de Lorraine ([1114]-Jerusalem 5 Aug 1157, bur Egmond)"
Med Lands cites:
[1402] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 52, p. 101.
[1403] Annales Egmundani 1143, MGH SS XVI, p. 455.
[1404] Annales Egmundani 1173 and 1176, MGH SS XVI, p. 468.
[1405] Chronologia Johannes de Beke 56, p. 117.
[1406] Beka's Egmondsch Necrologium, in Oppermann, O. (1933) Fontes Egmundenses (Utrecht), p. 109.4

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophia von Rheineck: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00018668&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophia von Rheineck: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00018668&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#SophieRheineckdied1176. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104724&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#OttoSalmRheineckdied1150
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gertrude von Northeim: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104725&tree=LEO
  8. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Holland 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/holland/holland1.html
  9. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Holland 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/holland/holland1.html
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/HOLLAND.htm#DirkVIdied1157
  11. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html#SS
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_of_Rheineck. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  13. [S4765] Wikipedia - L'enciclopedia libera, online https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_principale, Sofia di Rheineck:. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (IT).
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto IV: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00036670&tree=LEO
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophia: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104714&tree=LEO
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Dirk "Pelgrim": http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104710&tree=LEO
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Floris III: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00015379&tree=LEO
  18. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/HOLLAND.htm#FlorisIIIdied1190
  19. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Boudewijn: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104711&tree=LEO
  20. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Dirk of Holland: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104712&tree=LEO
  21. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Robrecht van Holland: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104713&tree=LEO

Otto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine1,2,3

M, #20272, b. 1059, d. before 12 November 1150
FatherHerman I (?) German King, Emperor elect, Graf von Salm and Luxemburg1,3,4,5 b. c 1035, d. 28 Sep 1088
MotherSophie (?) von Formbach1,3,5,6 b. c 1035, d. a 23 Sep 1088
ReferenceEDV27
Last Edited19 Nov 2020
     Otto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine was born in 1059; Genealogics says b. ca 1058; Genealogy.EU says b. 1059; Med Lands says b. 1070/75.2,3 He married Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland, daughter of Heinrich "der Fette" (?) von Northeim, Markgraf in Friesland, Duke of Saxony and Gertrud (?) von Meissen, circa 1115;
Her 2nd husband.7,2,8,9,1,3
Otto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine died before 12 November 1150 at Burg Schönburg; Murdered.7,2,1,3
     ; Per Genealogics:
     “Otto was the son of Hermann, emperor-elect, Graf von Salm, and his wife Sophie. About 1115 he married Pfalzgräfin Gertrude von Northeim, heiress of Friesland, widow of Siegfried von Ballenstedt, Graf von Orlamünde, Pfalzgraf von Lothringen, and daughter of Heinrich 'der Fette' von Northeim, Markgraf in Friesland, and Gertrud von Meissen. Gertrude was the sister of Richenza von Northeim, wife of Emperor Lothar von Supplinburg. Otto and Gertrude had a son and two daughters; both daughters would have progeny.
     “Otto built the castle of Rheineck and around 1124 he called himself Otto von Rheineck after it. After the death in 1140 of his stepson Wilhelm, Pfalzgraf von Lothringen, son of Siegfried von Ballenstedt, Otto claimed the Rhine Palatinate for himself, but Konrad III, elected King of the Romans in 1138, took the Palatinate as a fief and gave it to Hermann von Stahleck, who was devoted to him. Otto was able to hold the castles of Treis and Rheineck until about 1148, when open warfare broke out. The castle of Treis was taken over by the archbishopric of Trier, and the castle of Rheineck was destroyed by King Konrad in 1151. Otto died in 1150.”.1

Reference: Genealogics cites: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, 4 volumes, Marburg, 1953, 1975., W. K. Prinz von Isenburg, Reference: III 134.1 EDV-27.

; This is the same person as ”Otto I, Count of Salm” at Wikipedia and as ”Otto I. von Salm” at Wikipedia (DE).10,11

; Per Med Lands:
     "OTTO von Salm, son of HERMANN [I] Graf von Salm King of Germany & his wife Sophia --- ([1070/75]-murdered Burg Schönburg 1150 before 12 Nov). The Annales Sancti Diibodi name "Otto palatinus comes de Rineke" as son of "Hermannus [rex]"[1385]. “Domina Sophya Herimanni regis relicta” donated property to Göttweig by charter dated 23 Sep 1088, witnessed by “Otto filius eiusdem regine...”[1386]. "...Herimanno Salmucensi comite et fratre eius Ottone…" subscribed a charter dated 3 Oct 1104 which confirmed the donation to Stablo made by "Rigoldus de Alfunza"[1387]. Pfalzgraf 1115. Graf von Rheineck und Bentheim 1126. Lothar King of Germany confirmed property of Duisburg by charter dated 8 May 1129 witnessed by "…Comites: Gerhardus Longus de Gelere, Arnoldus de Cliue, Hermannus de Caluerlage, Hermannus de Salmene, Otto de Rinecke, Florentius de Hollande, Gerhardus de Hostad, Bernhardus de Hildenesheim, Godefridus et Hermannus de Cuch, Adolfus de Berge…"[1388]. Emperor Lothar donated property to Epternach by charter dated 24 Apr 1131 witnessed by "…Otto comes de Rinecke fraterque suus Hermannus comes de Salmis…"[1389]. The Gesta Alberonis Archiepiscopi names "comes Otto de Reneka" when recording that he was sent to Italy in 1137 by the king together with "fratribus duobus Guarnero et Iohanni de Nantesburch"[1390]. He succeeded in 1140 as OTTO Pfalzgraf von Lothringen. Arnold [I] Archbishop of Köln settled a dispute involving Köln St Pantaleon by charter dated 1144 witnessed by "Otto comes de Rinegge, Herimannus advocatus, Amelricus de Wurmerstorph, Walterus de Kesle, Richwinus et frater eius Herimannus…"[1391]. "Otto comes de Rinhechen, Otto filius eius…" signed the charter dated 1147 under which Arnold Archbishop of Köln confirmed a donation to Kloster St Martin, Köln[1392]. He was strangled[1393].
     "m ([1115]) as her second husband, GERTRUD von Northeim, widow of SIEGFRIED Graf von Orlamünde, daughter of HEINRICH "der Fette" Graf von Northeim & his wife Gertrud von Braunschweig (-[1154/65]). The Annalista Saxo names "Richenzam postea inperaticem et Gertrudem palatinam comitissam" as the two daughters of Heinrich & his wife Gertrud[1394]. A charter dated 1134, under which her son-in-law Emperor Lothar donated property to the monastery of St Marie at Brunswick, names "Gertrudis marchionissa, filia Ekeberti marchionis" as founder and also names "coniuge nostra Rikensa, eiusdem marchionisse filia…[et] filii sui Ottonis et filiarum, Richenze coniugis nostre et Gertrude Palatine comitisse"[1395]. "Clementia comitissa de Glizberg cum meis nepotibus Ottone et Wilhelmo" confirmed the foundation of Schiffenberg, with the consent of "domne Gertrudis palatine…[et] Adela filia eiusdem palatine", by charter dated 1141[1396]. Gräfin von Bentheim. A charter dated to [1150/54] names "Gertrude comitissa Benthemiensi" and refers to "morte mariti sui Ottonis Palatini"[1397]. Friedrich Bishop of Münster and "comitissa Gertrudis de Benthem" donated property to the Benedictines by charter dated 1154[1398]. "
Med Lands cites:
[1385] Annales Diibodi 1082, MGH SS XVI, p. 8.
[1386] Monumenta Boica, Vol. XXIX, Pars altera, Codex Pataviensis, p. 55.
[1387] Simon, J. (1865) Die Geschichte des reichständischen Hauses Ysenburg und Büdingen, Band III Das Ysenburg und Büdingensche Urkundenbuch (Frankfurt) ("Isenburg Urkundenbuch"), III, p. 4.
[1388] Niederrheins Urkundenbuch, Band I, 305, p. 200.
[1389] Trier Diplomatica (Hontheim), Tome I, CCCXLIII, p. 516.
[1390] Gesta Alberonis Archiepiscopi Trevirorum 15, MGH SS VIII, p. 251.
[1391] Niederrheins Urkundenbuch, Band I, 352, p. 241.
[1392] Ennen, L. & Eckertz, G. (eds.) (1860) Quellen zur Geschichte der Stadt Köln, Band I (Köln) ("Köln Quellen"), 59, p. 527.
[1393] ES I.2 182.
[1394] Annalista Saxo 1101.
[1395] Jungio, J. H. (1774) (Hannover) Historiæ antiquísima comitatus Benthemiensis, Codex diplomatum et documentorum variorum pro Historia Benthemiensi ("Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi"), V, p. 9.
[1396] Heinemann, O. van (ed.) (1867) Codex Diplomaticus Anhaltinus (Dessau), Teil I, 285, p. 211.
[1397] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VII, p. 13.
[1398] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VIII, p. 19.3


; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4): “A2. "Otto von Salm, Ct Palatine of the Rhine (1140-50), Gf von Bentheim, Gf von Rheineck, *1059, +1150; m.ca 1115 Gertrud, heiress of Frisia (+ca 1165) dau.of Gf Heinrich "der Fette" von Northeim."2
; Per Med Lands:
     "GERTRUD von Northeim (-[1154/65]). The Annalista Saxo names "Richenzam postea imperatricem et Gertrudem palatinam comitissam" as the two daughters of Heinrich and his wife Gertrud[1525]. Emperor Heinrich V confirmed an exchange of property acquired by Kloster Reinhardsbrunn from, among others, "palatinum comitem Sigifridum eiusque coniugem Gertrudem" by charter dated 27 Aug 1111[1526]. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified. Heiress of Friesland. A charter dated 1134, under which Emperor Lothar donated property to the monastery of St Marie at Brunswick, names "Gertrudis marchionissa, filia Ekeberti marchionis" as founder and also names "coniuge nostra Rikensa, eiusdem marchionisse filia…[et] filii sui Ottonis et filiarum, Richenze coniugis nostre et Gertrude Palatine comitisse"[1527]. "Clementia comitissa de Glizberg cum meis nepotibus Ottone et Wilhelmo" confirmed the foundation of Schiffenberg, with the consent of "domne Gertrudis palatine…[et] Adela filia eiusdem palatine", by charter dated 1141[1528]. Gräfin von Bentheim. A charter dated to [1150/54] names "Gertrude comitissa Benthemiensi" and refers to "morte mariti sui Ottonis Palatini"[1529]. Friedrich Bishop of Münster and "comitissa Gertrudis de Benthem" donated property to the Benedictines by charter dated 1154[1530].
     "m firstly (before 27 Aug 1111) SIEGFRIED Graf von Orlamünde Pfalzgraf von Lothringen, son of ADALBERT Graf von Ballenstedt [Askanier-Brandenburg] & his wife Adelheid von Weimar heiress of Orlamünde ([1075]-killed in battle 3 Sep 1113, bur Springirsbach).
     "m secondly ([1115]) OTTO von Salm, son of HERMANN [I] Graf von Salm [Luxembourg] King of Germany & his [second] wife --- (-murdered Burg Schönburg 1150 before 12 Nov). Pfalzgraf 1115. Graf von Rheineck und von Bentheim 1126. Pfalzgraf von Lothringen 1140."
Med Lands cites:
[1525] Annalista Saxo 1101.
[1526] Mainz Urkunden 12th Century, 5, p. 7.
[1527] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, V, p. 9.
[1528] Codex Diplomaticus Anhaltinus, Teil I, 285, p. 211.
[1529] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VII, p. 13.
[1530] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VIII, p. 19.9

; NB: Racines et Histoire (Enghien) says "Hedwige de Bentheim ° ~1120 (fille d’Otto, comte palatin du Rhin, et de Gertrud von Norheim)." Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4) also shows a dau. Hedwige for Otto and Gertrude and that this Hedwig "m. Hughues d Enghien." However, neither Genealogics nor Med Lands lists a daughter named Hedwig for Otto and Gertrude. There is generally disagreement concerning the wives of Huwes/Hugues d'Enghien, and Hedwige could be an error, or the attribution of parents might be an error.
Conclusion: I have chosen to leave Hed as a dau. of Otto and Gertrude for now. GA Vaut.12,13,1,3,14 He was Count Palatine of the Rhine/Pfalzgraf bei Rhein between 1140 and 1150.2,11

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104724&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#OttoSalmRheineckdied1150. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hermann: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104729&tree=LEO
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Maison de Luxembourg, p. 4: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Luxembourg.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophie: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104730&tree=LEO
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104724&tree=LEO
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gertrude von Northeim: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104725&tree=LEO
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXON%20NOBILITY.htm#GertrudNortheimdied1165
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_I,_Count_of_Salm. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  11. [S4759] Wikipedia - Die freie Enzyklopädie, online https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Hauptseite, Otto I. von Salm: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_I._von_Salm. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (DE).
  12. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Maison d’ Enghien, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Enghien.pdf
  13. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, House of Ascania (Ascan 1): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/ascania/ascan1.html
  14. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 21 Aug 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104726&tree=LEO
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrix von Rheineck: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104728&tree=LEO
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophia von Rheineck: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00018668&tree=LEO
  18. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#SophieRheineckdied1176

Arnold II/V (?) Graf von Looz und Rieneck1

M, #20273, b. 1080, d. after 1125
FatherArnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz1,2,3 b. bt 1050 - 1060, d. bt 1125 - 1135
MotherAgnes (?) of Mainz1,3,2,4
ReferenceGAV26
Last Edited17 Apr 2020
     Arnold II/V (?) Graf von Looz und Rieneck was born in 1080.1 He married Adelheid/Aleide (?) in 1100; Med Lands and Wikipedia call her Aleide, while Genealogy.EU names her as Adelheid von Rieneck.1,2,3
Arnold II/V (?) Graf von Looz und Rieneck died after 1125; Med Lands says Arnaud, d. aft 1125, m. Aleide (of unknown parentage). Genealogy.EU says Arnold II (V), d. bef 1141, m. Agnes von Mainz. Wikipedia says Arnold II, d. bef 1146, m. Aleide.1,2,3
     ; NB There seems to be a disagreement about the ancestry of Ludwig I; including the number of generations back to Emmo, and the names of his ancestors' wives.
Genealogics shows:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold I, d. 1135, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Med Lands shows and extra generation between Ludwig and Emmo:
     1. Ludwig (Louis) I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnaud, d. aft 1125, m. Aleide (of unknown parentage) and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnaud I, d. aft 1125, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Genealogy.EU also shows this second Arnold:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II (V), d. bef 1141, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I (IV), d. 1135, m. Adelheid von Rieneck/of Holland, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Wikipedia (various pages with various sources) the same four generations as Med Lands and Genealogy.EU
     1. Louis, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II, d. bef 1146, m. Aleide, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I, d. ca 1130, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo, d. bef 17 Jan 1078
I have chosed to follow the ancestry with two Arnolds. G. Vaut.5,3,1,6,2,7,8,9



; Per Genealogy.EU: "Gf Arnold II (V) von Looz und Rieneck, *1080, +before 1141; m.1100 Agnes of Mainz."1



; Per Med Lands: "ARNAUD (-after 1125). "Comes Arnulfus de Los et filius eius Arnolfus" witnessed a charter of Adalbéron Bishop of Liège dated 1125[840]. [same person as…? ARNAUD [II] ([1095/1105]-11 Apr, after 1136). Comte de Looz. As noted above, Daris suggests that there were two comtes de Looz named Arnaud, basing his argument on chronology which appears to be cogent[841]. "…Comitis Arnulfi [comte de Looz], Arnulfi de Arescloth…" witnessed the charter dated 1131, before 18 Mar, under which Alexander Bishop of Liège donated property to Flône[842]. "…Arnoldus Moguntinus comes…" witnessed the charter dated 1132, after 13 Sep, under which Adalbert Archbishop of Mainz donated property "in pago…Weitereibia…in comitatu Sigefridi comitis de Nuringes" to Mainz cathedral[843]. "Arnoldus…comes de Los cum Lodovico filio meo" founded Averboden abbey by charter dated 1135[844]. Alexander Bishop of Liège confirmed the foundation of Averboden abbey by "comes Ernulfus de Los assensu…Ernulfi de Arscot, Ernulfi de Dist, Cunonis de Repe…" by undated charter, dated to [1136][845]. "Arnoldus…comes de Los cum Lodovico filio meo" donated property to Averboden abbey, which they had founded, by undated charter, dated to [1136][846]. Alexander Bishop of Liège confirmed the foundation of Averboden abbey by "comes Ernulfus de Los", with the consent of "Ernulfi de Arscot, Ernulfi de Dist, Cunonis de Repe", by undated charter, dated to [1136][847]. "Comes de Claromonte Lambertus" granted the right to take wood from his forests in "predicti castelli" to the monks of Flône by charter dated 1136, witnessed by "comes Arnulfus de Los, comes Gislebertus de Duras, Walterus advocatus de Barz…"[848]. m ALEIDE, daughter of ---. Her marriage is confirmed by the spurious charter dated 23 Jun 1180 under which her supposed grandson "Robertus de Ghoer miles, dominus in Bierlos et Castri Stephani in Corswarem" donated revenue from property which supplemented th[e donation made by "Arnoldo comite de Los et Aleide avis meis", for the souls of "patris mei Johannis de Los domini de Ghoer…"[849]. Borman suggests that this charter, whose authenticity was first doubted in 1808, was written in [1720] in an attempt to convince the Corswarem family of their alleged descent from the comtes de Looz[850]. While the existence of her alleged son and grandson Jean and Robert cannot be verified by other sources, it is possible that the forger of the document used the correct name of the wife of Arnaud [II] Comte de Looz to support the authenticity of his production. No primary source has yet been identified which confirms that this speculation is correct.]
Comte Arnaud [II] & his wife had [five] children:
a) LOUIS [I] ([1125/30]-11 Aug 1171).
b) GERARD (-after 1138). Graf von Rieneck 1136/1139.
c) GOTTSCHALK (-after 1138).
d) IMAGINE . Abbess of Süsteren 1174.
e) JEAN de Looz"
Med Lands cites:
[840] Daris ´Comtes de Looz´ (1867), p. 98 (no citation reference for the full document).
[841] Daris ´Comtes de Looz´ (1867), p. 98 (no citation reference for the full document).
[842] Flône, VI, p. 291.
[843] Codex diplomaticus Nassoicus, Band I, Part 1, 188, p. 128.
[844] Miraeus (1723), Tome I, XC, p. 100.
[845] Miraeus (1723), Tome I, XCII, p. 101.
[846] Wouters (1849), Annexes, 1, p. 79.
[847] Wouters (1849), Annexes, 2, p. 81.
[848] Flône, VIII, p. 294.
[849] Codex Diplomaticus Lossensis, 116, p. 59.
[850] Borman, C. de ´Chartes apocryphes publiées par Foppens´, Bulletin de la Commission Royale d´Histoire, Tome LXXXII (Brussels, 1913), pp. 198-99, 207-08 (available for download at Internet Archive), reference provided by Comte Baudouin d´Ursel in a private email to the author dated 26 Dec 2010.3
GAV26 EDV25 GKJ-25.

; Per Wikipedia:
     "Arnold II (or Arnulf, Arnoul) (died 1146), Count of Looz, son of Arnold I, Count of Looz, and Agnes von Mainz, daughter of Gerhard I, Count of Rieneck, and Helwig von Bliescastel. He is distinguished from his father of the same name by historians who note records for counts named Arnold or Arnulf between 1179 and 1141. The first Arnold must have died between 1125 when Count Arnold appears in a record with his son also named Arnold, and 1135, when a new Count Arnold appears with his own son and successor Louis.[1]
     "Between these two dates, in 1129, Gislebert, Count of Duras, sought to seize the property of the Abbey of Sint-Truiden. (Giselbert was a cousin, the grandson of his namesake Giselbert, Count of Looz.) A war developed between Giselbert and the supporters of the abbot Radulphe, whose allies included Arnold (possibly Arnold I was still alive), Théoger, Bishop of Metz, Alexander I of Jülich, Bishop of Liege, and Waleran II, Duke of Lower Lorraine. Gislebert’s supporters included his brother-in-law Godfrey the Bearded, Count of Louvain, and Thierry of Alsace, Count of Flanders. The decisive battle took place on August 7, 1129 at Wilderen where Gislebert and his allies were defeated, but peace did not return in 1131.
     "He founded the Abbey of Averbode, giving home to the Order of Canons Regular of Prémontré that St. Norbert had created.
     "Arnold had an outstanding reputation among his contemporaries, frequently being the arbiter in disputes between neighbors. In particular, he succeeded in bringing about a reconciliation between Dirk VI, Count of Holland, and Giselbert’s son Otto II, to get Herman van Horne, grandson of Emmo, Count of Looz, recognized as Bishop of Utrecht. He was welcomed with great distinction at the court of the emperors of Germany, and his name frequently appears among the witnesses mentioned in the charters granted by Emperors Henry IV, Henry V and Lothair II, and King of Germany Conrad III.
     "According to a document which is possibly spurious, Arnold married Aleide.[2] Arnold is proposed to have had five children:
** Louis I, Count of Looz
** Gerard (d. after 1138), Count of Rieneck
** Gottschalk (d. after 1138)
** Imagine, Abbess of Susteren in 1174
** Jean de Looz, Seigneur de Ghoer, married to Sophie.
     "Arnold was succeeded as Count of Looz by his son Louis.
Sources
1. See for example Baerten. Verdonk also shows other evidence such as the changed position these two Arnolds took in witness lists, implying things about their ages relative to other known counts in their region.
2. Borman, C. de ´Chartes apocryphes publiées par Foppens´, Bulletin de la Commission Royale d´Histoire, Tome LXXXII (Brussels, 1913), pp. 198-99, 207-08 (available for download at Internet Archive).
** Baerten, Jean (1969), Het Graafschap Loon (11de - 14de eeuw) (PDF)
** J.-J. Thonissen, "Arnoul Ier et Arnoul II", Biographie nationale de Belgique, vol. 1 (Brussels, 1866) link
** Verdonk, Henk (2005) Graaf Arnold van Loon (eind 11de-begin 12de eeuw): Was er één of waren er twee?; "Tesi samanunga vvas edele unde scona. Liber Amicorum Theo Coun", Limburg – Het Oude Land van Loon 84, pp. 73-81."2

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_II,_Count_of_Looz. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#AgnesMainzMArnaudLooz
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00106429&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  6. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_I,_Count_of_Loon.
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_I,_Count_of_Loon.
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmo_of_Loon
  9. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 18 Dec 2019; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139A

Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz1

M, #20274, b. between 1050 and 1060, d. between 1125 and 1135
FatherEmmo von Looz Graf von Looz1,2,3 b. a 1030, d. 17 Jan 1078
MotherSuanehildis (?)4,5 d. 31 Mar 1100
ReferenceGAV26 EDV26
Last Edited17 Apr 2020
     Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz was born between 1050 and 1060.1,6 He married Agnes (?) of Mainz, daughter of Gerard (?) Burggraf von Mainz and Helwide (?) von Bleiskastel, circa 1100.1,7,6,8,9,10
Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz died between 1125 and 1135; Genealogics says Arnold I, d. 1135. Med Lands says Arnaud I, d. aft 1125. Genealogy.EU also ssays Arnold I (IV), d. 1135. Wikipedia says Arnold I, d. ca 1130.1,8,6,7
     ; NB There seems to be a disagreement about the ancestry of Ludwig I; including the number of generations back to Emmo, and the names of his ancestors' wives.
Genealogics shows:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold I, d. 1135, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Med Lands shows and extra generation between Ludwig and Emmo:
     1. Ludwig (Louis) I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnaud, d. aft 1125, m. Aleide (of unknown parentage) and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnaud I, d. aft 1125, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Genealogy.EU also shows this second Arnold:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II (V), d. bef 1141, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I (IV), d. 1135, m. Adelheid von Rieneck/of Holland, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Wikipedia (various pages with various sources) the same four generations as Med Lands and Genealogy.EU
     1. Louis, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II, d. bef 1146, m. Aleide, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I, d. ca 1130, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo, d. bef 17 Jan 1078
I have chosed to follow the ancestry with two Arnolds. G. Vaut.11,6,1,12,13,7,4,14



Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 6:60.8

; Per Med Lands:
     "ARNAUD [I] de Looz, son of EMMO Comte de Looz & his wife [Suanehildis of Holland] ([1050/60]-after 1 Apr 1125). The Vita Arnulfi names "Arnulfum comitem de Lo et Sophiam ducissam de Hungaria…et ducissam de Hui" as the children of Emmo Comte de Looz[824]. The Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium names "nepote suo [=Gislebertus] comite Arnulfo de Los"[825], although another passage names "Arnulfus comes de Los, nepos Ghislberti comitis de Durachio"[826] suggesting that the former also refers to Count Arnaud's cousin not his grandfather. Comte de Looz. Vogt of St Pierre, Liège 1086. “Comites Cono, Arnuldus de Loz, Reinerus, advocatus...” subscribed the charter dated to [25 Dec 1094/23 Sep 1095] under which Otobert Bishop of Liège donated “allodium de Hildenesen in Taxandria...et unum mansum in Herlechen” to the chapter of the Holy Cross, Liège[827]. "...Comes Arnoldus de Lon, frater eius Theodericus..." witnessed the charter dated 1096 under which "Ida...filii mei ducis Godefridi" donated property to Münster-Bilsen abbey[828]. "…Arnulfus comes de Loz…" witnessed the charter dated 1091 under which Henri de Verdun Bishop of Liège approved the foundation of Flône[829]. “...Comes Gerardus, comes de Los, Arnulfus, et frater eius Theodericus, Gislebertus filius comitis Ottonis, Heinricus de Chui, Reinerus advocatus, Wilelmus de Dolchen, Arnulphus de Roden, Wigerus de Tudino, Mainerus de Cortereces...” witnessed the charter dated 1 Jun 1101 under which Emperor Heinrich IV confirmed the rights of “Albertus comes Namucensium” over the church of Andenne[830]. Stadtgraf und Vogt von Mainz: “Arnoldus Urbanus Comes...” witnessed the charter dated 11 May 1108 under which Archbishop of Mainz confirmed the foundation of Kloster Disibodenberg[831]. "Arnulfus comes Lonensis et frater eius Theodericus" subscribed the charter dated 1111 under which "Otbertus…Leodiensis episcopus" declared that the church of Lixhe belonged to Liège Saint-Paul[832]. "Comes Arnoldus, comes Emicho, comes Berhtolfus, Embricho camerarius et filii eius Salman et Embricho…" witnessed the charter dated 1112 under which Ceizolf Provost of St Johann at Mainz donated property[833]. Graf von Rieneck 1115. "Ludowicus de Turingia comes, Arnoldus urbis comes, Sigehardus comes, Bertolfus comes, Ludewicus comes, Gozwinus comes…" witnessed the charter dated 20 Jun 1118 under which Adalbert Archbishop of Mainz donated property "in placito Ludwici comitis" to Kloster St Johannes auf dem Bischofsberge, after the death of "Hildrudis vidue Wulferici ministerialis nostri"[834]. "Arnoldus comes, Gerlahus comes, Embricho vicedominus…" witnessed the charter dated 1119, before 15 Aug, under which Adalbert Archbishop of Mainz granted property to Stift St Maria at Mainz[835]. “...Arnoldus urbis prefectus...” witnessed the charter dated 1124 under which Adalbert Archbishop of Mainz confirmed the foundation of a monastery of Gerode in Eichsfeld[836]. "...Arnulfo comite de Los, advocato Sancti Jacobi...Theodericus frater comitis Arnulphi..." witnessed the charter dated 1 Apr 1125 under which Emperor Heinrich V confirmed a donation to Liège Saint-Jacques made by "Guda mulier nobilis"[837]. "Comes Arnulfus de Los et filius eius Arnolfus" witnessed a charter of Adalbéron Bishop of Liège dated 1125[838]. Daris suggests that this is the last known mention of Comte Arnaud [I] and that the other later sources which name Comte Arnaud refer to his son Comte Arnaud [II] (see below)[839]. He bases his speculation on the career of Arnaud [I], whose first mention he dates to 27 Mar 1082 (no source cited), which he assesses to have been too long if he had survived until after 1136. This suggestion is consistent with the chronology of the succeeding generations of the Looz family which, as can be seen below, appears more cogent with an additional generation inserted between Arnaud [I] and Louis [I].
     "m AGNES von Mainz, daughter of GERHARD Graf von Mainz & his wife Hedwig von Bliescastel. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified, although it is indicated in the sources quoted above in which her husband is named as Graf von Mainz."
Med Lands cites:
[824] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
[825] Rodulfi, Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium X.2, MGH SS X, p. 291.
[826] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1086, MGH SS X, p. 386.
[827] Oorkondenboek Noord-Brabant, II, Eerste stuk, nr. 893, p. 29.
[828] Ernst (1847), Tome VI, XXIX, p. 113.
[829] Flône, I, p. 282.
[830] Andenne, Part I, 1, p. 1.
[831] Gudenus, V. F. de (1743) Codex Diplomaticus Moguntiaca (Goettingen), Tome I, XVIII, p. 37
[832] Liège Saint-Paul, p. 2.
[833] Menzel, K. & Sauer, W. (eds.) (1885) Codex diplomaticus Nassoicus, Band I, Part 1 (Wiesdaden), 164, p. 94.
[834] Codex diplomaticus Nassoicus, Band I, Part 1, 168, p. 97.
[835] Codex diplomaticus Nassoicus, Band I, Part 1, 169, p. 98.
[836] Gudenus (1743), Tome I, XXVI, p. 60.
[837] Ernst (1847), Tome VI, XXXVII, p. 124.
[838] Daris, J. ´Notes chronologiques sur les Comtes de Looz´, Bulletin de la Société scientifique et littéraire du Limbourg, Tome VIII (Tongres, 1867), p. 98 (no citation reference for the full document).
[839] Daris ´Comtes de Looz´ (1867), p. 98 (no citation reference for the full document).6


; Per Wikipedia:
     "Arnold I (approx 1050 - approx 1130), Count of Looz (Loon) (from approx 1079), son of Emmo, Count of Loon, and Suanhildis, daughter of Dirk III, Count of Holland, and his wife Othelandis.
     "He was an ally of Henry of Verdun and Otbert, both bishops of Liège. In 1078, he endowed the Collegiate Church of Huy and that of St. John at Liège.
     "In 1088, he spoke on the request of Bishop Henry of Verdun to end a conflict in the Abbey of St. Truiden where the bishop and emperor Henry IV had both appointed a successor abbot. As a result of his diplomacy, the emperor transferred the authority of the abbey of Sint-Truiden from Henry I, Duke of Lower Lorraine, to Arnold. Arnold forced Henry and his ally Godfrey of Bouillon, to withdraw from the monastery. The domain of Arnold expanded with the County of Rieneck by his marriage to Agnes.
     "Arnold married Agnes von Mainz, daughter of Gerhard I, Count of Rieneck, and Helwig von Bliescastel. Sources disagree on their number of children, but are believed to include:
** Gerard? (d. 1103, but probably did not exist). Count of Loon for a brief period according to the old Belgian National Biography, pointing to a charter of 1101. Baerten (1969 p.40 footnote 2) describes this as a mistake caused by modern edition with a wrongly placed comma, and gives references to the literature.
** Arnold II, Count of Looz. He is distinguished from his father of the same name by historians who note records for counts named Arnold or Arnulf between 1179 and 1141, which seems too long to be one person. The first Arnold must have died between 1125 when Count Arnold appears in a record with his son also named Arnold, and 1135, when a new Count Arnold appears with his own son and successor Louis.[1]
** Gertrude van Loon (1100-1154), married to Hugo XI, Count of Dagsburg. Their son was Hugo XII, Count of Dagsburg, who married Luitgarde, widow of Godfrey II, Count of Louvain. She was daughter of Berengar II of Sulzbach, and sister of Gertrude von Sulzbach, wife of Conrad III of Germany, and Bertha, wife of Manuel I Comnenus, the emperor of Byzantium. Their granddaughter was Gertrude of Dagsburg, wife of Theobald I, King of Navarre.
** Agnes van Loon (b. ca 1100), married Gerhard IV, Count of Jülich
** Beatrix van Loon (d. after 1132), married Arnout III, Count of Aarschot and had issue.

     "While the confusion about the non-existent "Gerard" remains, Arnold is now understood to have been succeeded by his son Arnold as Count of Looz upon his death.
Sources
1. See for example Baerten
** J.-J. Thonissen, "Arnoul Ier et Arnoul II", Biographie nationale de Belgique, vol. 1 (Brussels, 1866) link
** Vanderlinden, H., "Le tribunal de la paix de Henri de Verdun (1082) et la transformation de la principauté de Liège", in Mélanges Henri Pirenne, 1926
** Baerten, Jean (1969), Het Graafschap Loon (11de - 14de eeuw) (PDF)
External links
** Medieval Lands Project, Comtes de Looz: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078
** Medieval Lands Project, Grafen von Egisheim und Dagsburg (Moha): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALSACE.htm#_Toc390537948."13



; Per Genealogy.EU: "Gf Arnold I (IV) von Looz, became Gf von Rieneck, *1060, +1135; m.Adelheid von Rieneck (*1065)/Adelheid of Holland."1

GAV-26 EDV-26 GKJ-26. Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz was also known as Arnaud de Looz Comte de Looz.6

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmo/Immo: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106441&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078A. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmo_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_I,_Count_of_Loon.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnold I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106443&tree=LEO
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes von Mainz: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106444&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#AgnesMainzMArnaudLooz
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00106429&tree=LEO
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_I,_Count_of_Loon.
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_II,_Count_of_Looz.
  14. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 18 Dec 2019; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  15. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139A

Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz1,2,3

M, #20275, b. after 1030, d. 17 January 1078
FatherGiselbert von Looz Graf von Looz4,3,2,5 b. 985, d. bt 1044 - 1046
MotherLuitgarde (?) de Namur4,2
ReferenceGAV28
Last Edited22 Aug 2020
     Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz married Ermengarde (?) of Hornes.4,3 Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz married Suanehildis (?), daughter of Dirk III Hierosolymita (?) Count of Holland and Othelindis (?) von der Nordmark.6 Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz was born after 1030.4
Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz died on 17 January 1078.4
     ; NB There seems to be a disagreement about the ancestry of Ludwig I; including the number of generations back to Emmo, and the names of his ancestors' wives.
Genealogics shows:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold I, d. 1135, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Med Lands shows and extra generation between Ludwig and Emmo:
     1. Ludwig (Louis) I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnaud, d. aft 1125, m. Aleide (of unknown parentage) and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnaud I, d. aft 1125, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Genealogy.EU also shows this second Arnold:
     1. Ludwig I, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II (V), d. bef 1141, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I (IV), d. 1135, m. Adelheid von Rieneck/of Holland, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo/Immo, d. 1078
Wikipedia (various pages with various sources) the same four generations as Med Lands and Genealogy.EU
     1. Louis, d. 1171, son of
     -- 2. Arnold II, d. bef 1146, m. Aleide, and was son of
     -- -- 3. Arnold I, d. ca 1130, m. Agnes von Mainz, and was son of
     -- -- -- 4. Emmo, d. bef 17 Jan 1078
I have chosed to follow the ancestry with two Arnolds. G. Vaut.7,8,4,9,10,11,12,13



; Per Wikipedia:
     "Count Emmo or Emmon (d. before 17 Jan 1078) is one of the first known Counts of Loon. Before him one more count is known with confidence, Giselbert of Loon, but it is not certain that Giselbert was his father. Verhelst for example has proposed that he was his uncle, and that Giselbert's brother Count Arnulf was father of Emmo and also a count of Loon.
     "More securely, his mother is named clearly as Luitgarde of Namur, a sister of Count Albert of Namur, in a work about the life of her cousin, Bishop Arnulf of Soissons.[1]
     "Unusually, Emmo and his brother Otto were sometimes jointly referred to as Counts of Loon, though Otto's descendants became Counts of neighboring Duras, perhaps through his marriage to the heiress. Emmo's family was probably descended from the 10th century families who held counties in the local Hesbaye region, which were eventually replaced by Loon and Duras. In 966 the lord of Gelmen was a Count Immo.
     "Emmo married Suanhildis, who was possibly the daughter of Dirk III Hierosolymita, Count of Holland, and Othelandis of Nordmarck. Emmo and Suanhildis had four children:
** Sophie (d. 1065) married Géza I, King of Hungary. It is uncertain whether the subsequent dynasty of Kings of Hungary were the descendants of Sophie or Géza’s second wife.
** Arnold I, Count of Looz
** Thierry (Dirk) de Looz (d. after April 1125), Count of Horn.
** Mechthilde, Abbess of Munsterbilzen[2]
** Renaud, advocate of Fosses-la-Ville, mentioned in a forged document?[citation needed]

     "Emmo was succeeded as Count of Looz by his son Arnold upon his death.
References
1. Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis, MGH SS 15.2, Holder-Egger ed. (Hannover 1888) 879.
2. See pedigree p.149 Vaes, Jan (2016), De Graven van Loon. Loons, Luiks, Limburgs, ISBN 9789059087651
Sources
** Jean Baerten, Het graafschap Loon (11de-14de eeuw), Assen,1969 (link)
** Souvereyns; Bijsterveld (2008), "Deel 1: De graven van Loon", Limburg - Het Oude Land van Loon (link)
** Vanderkindere, Léon (1902), La formation territoriale des principautés belges au Moyen Age (link), Vol.2, Ch. 9, p. 128
** Verdonk, "De herkomst van de heren van Herlaer" link
** Verhelst, Karel (1985), "Een nieuwe visie op de omvang en indeling van de pagus Hasbania (part 2)", Handelingen van de Koninklijke Zuidnederlandsche Maatschappij voor Taal- en Letterkunde en Geschiednis, 39
External links
** Medieval Lands Project, Comtes de Looz: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078.12 "



; NB There is uncertainty concerning the wife of Emmo and the mother of Emmo's children.
     Genealogy.EU (Looz 1) and Genealogics call her Irmingard of Hoorne.
     Med Lands and Wikipedia say she was (or probably was) Suanehildis, possibly a dau. of Dirk III.
I have chosen to show both marriages, but to show Suanehildis as the mother of Emmo's children. G A Vaut.2,6,12,4,3,14

GAV-28.

; Per Genealogy.EU: "Emmo III von Looz, *after 1030; +17.1.1078; m.Irmingard of Hoorne (*1040.)4"



Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 6:60.3 Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz was also known as Immo Graf von Looz.3

; Per Med Lands:
     "EMMO [Immo], son of [GISELBERT Comte de Looz] & his wife [Liutgarde de Namur] (-17 Jan 1078). The Vita Arnulfi names "Emmonem et Ottonem fratrem eius" as sons of Liutgarde, daughter of Albert [I] Comte de Namur[790]. From a chronological point of view, it is not possible for Emmo and his brother to have been the children of Otto de Looz who, as stated above, is recorded in another source as the husband of Liutgarde de Namur. No primary source has been identified which confirms that Emmo and Otto were the sons of Comte Giselbert, although this suggested parentage would fit the chronology of the family. Comte de Looz. “...Ottonis advocati et fratris eius Emmonis comitis de Los, Alberti comitis de Musal...” signed the charter dated 1059 under which “Fredericus...Lothariencium dux” donated a serf to Saint-Trond[791]. The necrology of Liège Saint-Lambert records the death "XVII Kal Feb" of "Emononis comitis"[792].
     "m ---. The identity of the wife of Comte Emmo has not been established beyond doubt. The Annalista Saxo names "Bertrada, soror Suanehildis comitisse de castro quod dicitur Lon in Hasbania, cuius filius fuit Arnoldus comes Mogotiensis prefectus" as wife of Graf Dietrich (identified as Dietrich I Graf von Katlenburg)[793]. As noted in the document HOLLAND, no primary source has been identified which indicates that Bertrada was the daughter of Dirk III Count of Holland. Nevertheless, from a chronological point of view Count Dirk is the most likely father, assuming that Bertrada was a member of that family. "Arnoldus comes Mogotiensis prefectus" in this passage must be identified as Arnaud [I] Comte de Looz, who is recorded as the son of Emmo Comte de Looz. If that is correct, the wife of Emmo was Suanehildis of Holland, daughter of Dirk III "Hierosolymita" Count of Holland & his wife Othelindis [von Haldensleben] (-31 Mar [1100]). From a chronological point of view, the suggestion is feasible: the birth of the children of Count Dirk III must be dated to [1010/35], while Comte Emmo´s children were probably born in [1040/60]. The necrology of Liège Saint-Jacques points to this being the correct solution when it records the death 31 Mar of “Spannehildis comitissima de Los” and her donation[794]. Verdonk indicates that she died in 1100 on a pilgrimage to Rome[795]. [The Vita Andreæ, first abbot of Averboden, in the Chronicle written by Nicolas Hogeland Abbot of Middelburg, records that "comitis Arnoldi Lossensis" descended "ex parte matris" from "Cliviæ comitibus"[796], which would be inconsistent with this hypothesis but, as pointed out below, Klaversma notes that this source is a 17th century forgery and is therefore unreliable[797].] The dubious late-18th century Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas indicates that Comte Emmo married “Ermingarde, fille héritière de Conrard sire de Hornes et de Machtilde de Juliers, laquelle fit de belles donations à St. Barthelemi de[ Liège et à notre Dame de Hui”[798]. No primary source is cited to confirm this statement and no reliable reference has been found to any such early family of Heren van Horne (see the document DUTCH NOBILITY). Possibly the statement is linked to the 17th century forgery which suggests that Horne was inherited by Emmo’s son Thierry, as noted below. The reference to the “donations à St. Barthelemi de Liège” suggests that this person was identified as "Ermengardis comitissa" whose donation is dated 1078[799], and presumably also as "Ermengardis" who made similar donations to the churches of Sainte-Marie et Saint-Lambert de Liège by charter dated 5 Feb 1078[800]. No primary source has been found which links Ermengarde to Looz while Daris, in his mid-19th century Histoire de Looz, indicated that the idea had no foundation[801]. It is suggested elsewhere in the present document that the donor in question was the widow of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu.]"
Med Lands cites:
[790] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
[791] Saint-Trond, XIII, p. 18.
[792] Saint-Lambert Liège Obituaire, p. 10.
[793] Annalista Saxo 1056.
[794] Berlière, U. ‘Fragment d’un nécrologe de l’abbaye de Saint-Jacques à Liège’, Bulletin de la Commission Royale d’Histoire, Vol. XVC (Brussels, 1931), p. 231, quoted in Verdonk, H. ‘De Herkomst van de Heren van Herlaer’, De Brabantse Leeuw (2000), p. 138. [information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 2 Dec 2011]
[795] Verdonk ‘De Herkomst van de Heren van Herlaer’, p. 138, citing Kahnsnitz (1992) Die Grunde von Lauch und Sayn, Fürstenbündnisse des 13. Jahrhunderts (Nürnberg), p. 90, and Bogler, T. (1983) Abdijkerk Maria-Laach (München), p. 3. [information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 2 Dec 2011]
[796] Wouters, M. J. (1849) Notice historique sur l´ancienne abbaye d´Averboden (Gand), Annexes, Vita B. Andreæ primi abbatis Averbodiensis monasterii, XIII, p. 147.
[797] Klaversma, T. ´De geschlachten van Altena en Horne tot ca. 1300´, Publications de la Société Historique et Archéologique dans le duché de Limbourg (“PSAHL”), tome 114 (1978), p. 38 footnote 155 (information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 27 Sep 2011).
[798] Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas (Rotterdam, 1775), p. 322.
[799] Foppens, J. F. (1748) Diplomatum Belgicorum nova collectio, sive supplementum ad opera diplomatica Auberti Miræi (Brussels), Tome IV, Pars IV, V, p. 505.
[800] Liège Saint-Lambert, Tome I, XXVI, p. 38.
[801] Daris, J. (1864) Histoire de la bonne ville, de l’église et des comtes de Looz (Liège), Tome I, p. 394.3

; NB: There is some disagreement as to whether the Sophie von Looz who m. Geza I was the dau. of Giselbert per Genealogics (citing: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 2:154), and Genealogy.EU (Looz 1), or the dau. of Emmo, Giselbert's son, (per Med Lands).15,16,17

Family 1

Ermengarde (?) of Hornes d. 1040

Family 2

Suanehildis (?) d. 31 Mar 1100
Children

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmo/Immo: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106441&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Giselbert: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106439&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/HOLLAND.htm#SuanehildisMEmmoLooz
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00106429&tree=LEO
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139
  9. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_I,_Count_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_II,_Count_of_Looz.
  11. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_I,_Count_of_Loon.
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmo_of_Loon
  13. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 18 Dec 2019; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Irmengard: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106442&tree=LEO
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophie of Looz: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139747&tree=LEO
  16. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078A
  17. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html#SG

Ermengarde (?) of Hornes

F, #20276, d. 1040
Last Edited23 Dec 2019
     Ermengarde (?) of Hornes married Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz, son of Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz and Luitgarde (?) de Namur.1,2
Ermengarde (?) of Hornes died in 1040.1
     ; NB There is uncertainty concerning the wife of Emmo and the mother of Emmo's children.
     Genealogy.EU (Looz 1) and Genealogics call her Irmingard of Hoorne.
     Med Lands and Wikipedia say she was (or probably was) Suanehildis, possibly a dau. of Dirk III.
I have chosen to show both marriages, but to show Suanehildis as the mother of Emmo's children. G A Vaut.3,4,5,1,2,6


; Per Med Lands:
     "EMMO [Immo], son of [GISELBERT Comte de Looz] & his wife [Liutgarde de Namur] (-17 Jan 1078). The Vita Arnulfi names "Emmonem et Ottonem fratrem eius" as sons of Liutgarde, daughter of Albert [I] Comte de Namur[790]. From a chronological point of view, it is not possible for Emmo and his brother to have been the children of Otto de Looz who, as stated above, is recorded in another source as the husband of Liutgarde de Namur. No primary source has been identified which confirms that Emmo and Otto were the sons of Comte Giselbert, although this suggested parentage would fit the chronology of the family. Comte de Looz. “...Ottonis advocati et fratris eius Emmonis comitis de Los, Alberti comitis de Musal...” signed the charter dated 1059 under which “Fredericus...Lothariencium dux” donated a serf to Saint-Trond[791]. The necrology of Liège Saint-Lambert records the death "XVII Kal Feb" of "Emononis comitis"[792].
     "m ---. The identity of the wife of Comte Emmo has not been established beyond doubt. The Annalista Saxo names "Bertrada, soror Suanehildis comitisse de castro quod dicitur Lon in Hasbania, cuius filius fuit Arnoldus comes Mogotiensis prefectus" as wife of Graf Dietrich (identified as Dietrich I Graf von Katlenburg)[793]. As noted in the document HOLLAND, no primary source has been identified which indicates that Bertrada was the daughter of Dirk III Count of Holland. Nevertheless, from a chronological point of view Count Dirk is the most likely father, assuming that Bertrada was a member of that family. "Arnoldus comes Mogotiensis prefectus" in this passage must be identified as Arnaud [I] Comte de Looz, who is recorded as the son of Emmo Comte de Looz. If that is correct, the wife of Emmo was Suanehildis of Holland, daughter of Dirk III "Hierosolymita" Count of Holland & his wife Othelindis [von Haldensleben] (-31 Mar [1100]). From a chronological point of view, the suggestion is feasible: the birth of the children of Count Dirk III must be dated to [1010/35], while Comte Emmo´s children were probably born in [1040/60]. The necrology of Liège Saint-Jacques points to this being the correct solution when it records the death 31 Mar of “Spannehildis comitissima de Los” and her donation[794]. Verdonk indicates that she died in 1100 on a pilgrimage to Rome[795]. [The Vita Andreæ, first abbot of Averboden, in the Chronicle written by Nicolas Hogeland Abbot of Middelburg, records that "comitis Arnoldi Lossensis" descended "ex parte matris" from "Cliviæ comitibus"[796], which would be inconsistent with this hypothesis but, as pointed out below, Klaversma notes that this source is a 17th century forgery and is therefore unreliable[797].] The dubious late-18th century Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas indicates that Comte Emmo married “Ermingarde, fille héritière de Conrard sire de Hornes et de Machtilde de Juliers, laquelle fit de belles donations à St. Barthelemi de[ Liège et à notre Dame de Hui”[798]. No primary source is cited to confirm this statement and no reliable reference has been found to any such early family of Heren van Horne (see the document DUTCH NOBILITY). Possibly the statement is linked to the 17th century forgery which suggests that Horne was inherited by Emmo’s son Thierry, as noted below. The reference to the “donations à St. Barthelemi de Liège” suggests that this person was identified as "Ermengardis comitissa" whose donation is dated 1078[799], and presumably also as "Ermengardis" who made similar donations to the churches of Sainte-Marie et Saint-Lambert de Liège by charter dated 5 Feb 1078[800]. No primary source has been found which links Ermengarde to Looz while Daris, in his mid-19th century Histoire de Looz, indicated that the idea had no foundation[801]. It is suggested elsewhere in the present document that the donor in question was the widow of Gozelon Comte de Montaigu.]"
Med Lands cites:
[790] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
[791] Saint-Trond, XIII, p. 18.
[792] Saint-Lambert Liège Obituaire, p. 10.
[793] Annalista Saxo 1056.
[794] Berlière, U. ‘Fragment d’un nécrologe de l’abbaye de Saint-Jacques à Liège’, Bulletin de la Commission Royale d’Histoire, Vol. XVC (Brussels, 1931), p. 231, quoted in Verdonk, H. ‘De Herkomst van de Heren van Herlaer’, De Brabantse Leeuw (2000), p. 138. [information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 2 Dec 2011]
[795] Verdonk ‘De Herkomst van de Heren van Herlaer’, p. 138, citing Kahnsnitz (1992) Die Grunde von Lauch und Sayn, Fürstenbündnisse des 13. Jahrhunderts (Nürnberg), p. 90, and Bogler, T. (1983) Abdijkerk Maria-Laach (München), p. 3. [information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 2 Dec 2011]
[796] Wouters, M. J. (1849) Notice historique sur l´ancienne abbaye d´Averboden (Gand), Annexes, Vita B. Andreæ primi abbatis Averbodiensis monasterii, XIII, p. 147.
[797] Klaversma, T. ´De geschlachten van Altena en Horne tot ca. 1300´, Publications de la Société Historique et Archéologique dans le duché de Limbourg (“PSAHL”), tome 114 (1978), p. 38 footnote 155 (information provided by Ed von Gohren in a private email to the author dated 27 Sep 2011).
[798] Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas (Rotterdam, 1775), p. 322.
[799] Foppens, J. F. (1748) Diplomatum Belgicorum nova collectio, sive supplementum ad opera diplomatica Auberti Miræi (Brussels), Tome IV, Pars IV, V, p. 505.
[800] Liège Saint-Lambert, Tome I, XXVI, p. 38.
[801] Daris, J. (1864) Histoire de la bonne ville, de l’église et des comtes de Looz (Liège), Tome I, p. 394.2
Ermengarde (?) of Hornes was also known as Irmengard (?)6

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 6:60.6

Family

Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz b. a 1030, d. 17 Jan 1078

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmo/Immo: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106441&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/HOLLAND.htm#SuanehildisMEmmoLooz
  5. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmo_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Irmengard: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106442&tree=LEO

Agnes (?) of Mainz1,2

F, #20277
FatherGerard (?) Burggraf von Mainz3,4,5 d. a 1106
MotherHelwide (?) von Bleiskastel6,2,7
ReferenceGAV27
Last Edited30 Jan 2020
     Agnes (?) of Mainz married Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz, son of Emmo von Looz Graf von Looz and Suanehildis (?), circa 1100.1,8,9,10,4,11
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 6:60.4

; Per Med Lands: "AGNES von Mainz. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified, although it is indicated in the sources quoted in the document LOWER LOTHARINGIA NOBILITY in which her husband is named as Graf von Mainz. m ([1100]) ARNAUD [I] Comte de Looz, son of EMMO Comte de Looz & his wife [Suanehildis of Holland] (-after 1125). Graf von Mainz."11 GAV-27 EDV-25 GKJ-25.

Family

Arnold I/IV (?) Graf von Looz b. bt 1050 - 1060, d. bt 1125 - 1135
Children

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes von Mainz: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106444&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gerhard: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106445&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes von Mainz: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106444&tree=LEO
  5. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#GerhardMainzdiedafter1106. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hedwig von Blieskastel: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106446&tree=LEO
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(UPPER)%20NOBILITY.htm#HelwideBlieskastelMGerhardMainz
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_I,_Count_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnold I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106443&tree=LEO
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#AgnesMainzMArnaudLooz
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#ArnoldILoozdied1139A
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_II,_Count_of_Looz.

Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland1,2,3,4

F, #20278, d. before 1165
FatherHeinrich "der Fette" (?) von Northeim, Markgraf in Friesland, Duke of Saxony5,3,4,6,7 b. c 1051, d. 10 Apr 1101
MotherGertrud (?) von Meissen8,3,4 b. c 1060, d. 9 Dec 1117
ReferenceEDV25
Last Edited29 Oct 2020
     Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland married Siegfried I von Ballenstedt Graf von Weimar-Orlamünde, Pfalzgraf von Lothringen, son of Adalbert II von Ballenstedt Graf von Ballenstedt, Graf im Nordthuringgau and Adelheid von Orlamünde Heiress of Orlamünde, before 27 August 1111;
Her 1st husband.9,3,4,10,11 Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland married Otto I von Salm Graf von Rheineck, Count Palatine of the Rhine, son of Herman I (?) German King, Emperor elect, Graf von Salm and Luxemburg and Sophie (?) von Formbach, circa 1115;
Her 2nd husband.12,1,3,4,13,14
Gertrude (?) von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein, Heiress of Friesland died before 1165; Genealogics says d. bef 1165; Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4) says d. ca 1165; Med Lands says d. 1154/65.1,3,4
     ; Per Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4): “A2. "Otto von Salm, Ct Palatine of the Rhine (1140-50), Gf von Bentheim, Gf von Rheineck, *1059, +1150; m.ca 1115 Gertrud, heiress of Frisia (+ca 1165) dau.of Gf Heinrich "der Fette" von Northeim."1

; Per Med Lands:
     "OTTO von Salm, son of HERMANN [I] Graf von Salm King of Germany & his wife Sophia --- ([1070/75]-murdered Burg Schönburg 1150 before 12 Nov). The Annales Sancti Diibodi name "Otto palatinus comes de Rineke" as son of "Hermannus [rex]"[1385]. “Domina Sophya Herimanni regis relicta” donated property to Göttweig by charter dated 23 Sep 1088, witnessed by “Otto filius eiusdem regine...”[1386]. "...Herimanno Salmucensi comite et fratre eius Ottone…" subscribed a charter dated 3 Oct 1104 which confirmed the donation to Stablo made by "Rigoldus de Alfunza"[1387]. Pfalzgraf 1115. Graf von Rheineck und Bentheim 1126. Lothar King of Germany confirmed property of Duisburg by charter dated 8 May 1129 witnessed by "…Comites: Gerhardus Longus de Gelere, Arnoldus de Cliue, Hermannus de Caluerlage, Hermannus de Salmene, Otto de Rinecke, Florentius de Hollande, Gerhardus de Hostad, Bernhardus de Hildenesheim, Godefridus et Hermannus de Cuch, Adolfus de Berge…"[1388]. Emperor Lothar donated property to Epternach by charter dated 24 Apr 1131 witnessed by "…Otto comes de Rinecke fraterque suus Hermannus comes de Salmis…"[1389]. The Gesta Alberonis Archiepiscopi names "comes Otto de Reneka" when recording that he was sent to Italy in 1137 by the king together with "fratribus duobus Guarnero et Iohanni de Nantesburch"[1390]. He succeeded in 1140 as OTTO Pfalzgraf von Lothringen. Arnold [I] Archbishop of Köln settled a dispute involving Köln St Pantaleon by charter dated 1144 witnessed by "Otto comes de Rinegge, Herimannus advocatus, Amelricus de Wurmerstorph, Walterus de Kesle, Richwinus et frater eius Herimannus…"[1391]. "Otto comes de Rinhechen, Otto filius eius…" signed the charter dated 1147 under which Arnold Archbishop of Köln confirmed a donation to Kloster St Martin, Köln[1392]. He was strangled[1393].
     "m ([1115]) as her second husband, GERTRUD von Northeim, widow of SIEGFRIED Graf von Orlamünde, daughter of HEINRICH "der Fette" Graf von Northeim & his wife Gertrud von Braunschweig (-[1154/65]). The Annalista Saxo names "Richenzam postea inperaticem et Gertrudem palatinam comitissam" as the two daughters of Heinrich & his wife Gertrud[1394]. A charter dated 1134, under which her son-in-law Emperor Lothar donated property to the monastery of St Marie at Brunswick, names "Gertrudis marchionissa, filia Ekeberti marchionis" as founder and also names "coniuge nostra Rikensa, eiusdem marchionisse filia…[et] filii sui Ottonis et filiarum, Richenze coniugis nostre et Gertrude Palatine comitisse"[1395]. "Clementia comitissa de Glizberg cum meis nepotibus Ottone et Wilhelmo" confirmed the foundation of Schiffenberg, with the consent of "domne Gertrudis palatine…[et] Adela filia eiusdem palatine", by charter dated 1141[1396]. Gräfin von Bentheim. A charter dated to [1150/54] names "Gertrude comitissa Benthemiensi" and refers to "morte mariti sui Ottonis Palatini"[1397]. Friedrich Bishop of Münster and "comitissa Gertrudis de Benthem" donated property to the Benedictines by charter dated 1154[1398]. "
Med Lands cites:
[1385] Annales Diibodi 1082, MGH SS XVI, p. 8.
[1386] Monumenta Boica, Vol. XXIX, Pars altera, Codex Pataviensis, p. 55.
[1387] Simon, J. (1865) Die Geschichte des reichständischen Hauses Ysenburg und Büdingen, Band III Das Ysenburg und Büdingensche Urkundenbuch (Frankfurt) ("Isenburg Urkundenbuch"), III, p. 4.
[1388] Niederrheins Urkundenbuch, Band I, 305, p. 200.
[1389] Trier Diplomatica (Hontheim), Tome I, CCCXLIII, p. 516.
[1390] Gesta Alberonis Archiepiscopi Trevirorum 15, MGH SS VIII, p. 251.
[1391] Niederrheins Urkundenbuch, Band I, 352, p. 241.
[1392] Ennen, L. & Eckertz, G. (eds.) (1860) Quellen zur Geschichte der Stadt Köln, Band I (Köln) ("Köln Quellen"), 59, p. 527.
[1393] ES I.2 182.
[1394] Annalista Saxo 1101.
[1395] Jungio, J. H. (1774) (Hannover) Historiæ antiquísima comitatus Benthemiensis, Codex diplomatum et documentorum variorum pro Historia Benthemiensi ("Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi"), V, p. 9.
[1396] Heinemann, O. van (ed.) (1867) Codex Diplomaticus Anhaltinus (Dessau), Teil I, 285, p. 211.
[1397] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VII, p. 13.
[1398] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VIII, p. 19.14


Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, Reference: VIII 132.
2. Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, 4 volumes, Marburg, 1953, 1975., W. K. Prinz von Isenburg, Reference: III 134.
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry Baltimore, 1975. , Lt.Col. W. H. Turton, Reference: 20.3
EDV-25.

; Per Med Lands:
     "GERTRUD von Northeim (-[1154/65]). The Annalista Saxo names "Richenzam postea imperatricem et Gertrudem palatinam comitissam" as the two daughters of Heinrich and his wife Gertrud[1525]. Emperor Heinrich V confirmed an exchange of property acquired by Kloster Reinhardsbrunn from, among others, "palatinum comitem Sigifridum eiusque coniugem Gertrudem" by charter dated 27 Aug 1111[1526]. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified. Heiress of Friesland. A charter dated 1134, under which Emperor Lothar donated property to the monastery of St Marie at Brunswick, names "Gertrudis marchionissa, filia Ekeberti marchionis" as founder and also names "coniuge nostra Rikensa, eiusdem marchionisse filia…[et] filii sui Ottonis et filiarum, Richenze coniugis nostre et Gertrude Palatine comitisse"[1527]. "Clementia comitissa de Glizberg cum meis nepotibus Ottone et Wilhelmo" confirmed the foundation of Schiffenberg, with the consent of "domne Gertrudis palatine…[et] Adela filia eiusdem palatine", by charter dated 1141[1528]. Gräfin von Bentheim. A charter dated to [1150/54] names "Gertrude comitissa Benthemiensi" and refers to "morte mariti sui Ottonis Palatini"[1529]. Friedrich Bishop of Münster and "comitissa Gertrudis de Benthem" donated property to the Benedictines by charter dated 1154[1530].
     "m firstly (before 27 Aug 1111) SIEGFRIED Graf von Orlamünde Pfalzgraf von Lothringen, son of ADALBERT Graf von Ballenstedt [Askanier-Brandenburg] & his wife Adelheid von Weimar heiress of Orlamünde ([1075]-killed in battle 3 Sep 1113, bur Springirsbach).
     "m secondly ([1115]) OTTO von Salm, son of HERMANN [I] Graf von Salm [Luxembourg] King of Germany & his [second] wife --- (-murdered Burg Schönburg 1150 before 12 Nov). Pfalzgraf 1115. Graf von Rheineck und von Bentheim 1126. Pfalzgraf von Lothringen 1140."
Med Lands cites:
[1525] Annalista Saxo 1101.
[1526] Mainz Urkunden 12th Century, 5, p. 7.
[1527] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, V, p. 9.
[1528] Codex Diplomaticus Anhaltinus, Teil I, 285, p. 211.
[1529] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VII, p. 13.
[1530] Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi, VIII, p. 19.4


; Per Genealogy.EU (Ascan 1): “C2. Siegfried I, Gf von Orlamünde, Pfalzgraf bei Rhein (1095-1113), *ca 1075, +k.a.9.3.1113; m.Gertrud von Northeim, Pfalzgräfin bei Rhein (+1154/65)”.15

; Per Med Lands:
     "SIEGFRIED von Ballenstedt, son of ADALBERT Graf von Ballenstedt [Brandenburg] & his wife Adelheid von Weimar ([1075]-killed in battle 3 Sep 1113, bur Springirsbach). The Annalista Saxo names "Ottonem comitem et Sigefridum palatinum comitem" as sons of Adalbert & his wife Adelheid[722]. He was adopted by his stepfather Pfalzgraf Heinrich von Laach[723], whom he succeeded in 1095 as SIEGFRIED Pfalzgraf von Lothringen. Vogt of Trier Cathedral in 1097. Vogt of Springirsbach and Maria Laach. He founded Kloster Herrenbreitungen in 1112[724]. He succeeded as Graf von Orlamünde, presumably on the death of his mother in 1100. "Sifridus…comes palatinus" confirmed the foundation of Kloster Laach by "predecessor et dominus meus Henricus comes palatinus…uxore sua Athelheide…matre mea" by charter dated 1112[725]. The Annales Corbeienses record that "Sifridus palatinus" was killed in 1113[726]. A memorial in Kloster Herrnbreitungen records the death "VII Id Mar 1114" of "Syfrid palatinus comes de Orlamunde fundator istius ecclesiæ"[727].
     "m (before 27 Aug 1111) as her first husband, GERTRUD von Northeim, daughter of HEINRICH "dem Fetten" Graf von Northeim & his wife Gertrud von Braunschweig (-[1154/65]). The Annalista Saxo names "Richenzam postea imperatricem et Gertrudem palatinam comitissam" as the two daughters of Heinrich & his wife Gertrud[728]. Emperor Heinrich V confirmed an exchange of property acquired by Kloster Reinhardsbrunn from, among others, "palatinum comitem Sigifridum eiusque coniugem Gertrudem" by charter dated 27 Aug 1111[729]. The primary source which confirms that Gertrud, wife of Pfalzgraf Siegfried, was the daughter of Markgraf Heinrich has not yet been identified. Heiress of Friesland. She married secondly ([1115]) Otto von Salm, Graf von Rheineck und Bentheim in 1126, Pfalzgraf von Lothringen in 1140. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified. A charter dated 1134, under which Emperor Lothar donated property to the monastery of St Marie at Brunswick, names "Gertrudis marchionissa, filia Ekeberti marchionis" as founder and also names "coniuge nostra Rikensa, eiusdem marchionisse filia…[et] filii sui Ottonis et filiarum, Richenze coniugis nostre et Gertrude Palatine comitisse"[730]. "Clementia comitissa de Glizberg cum meis nepotibus Ottone et Wilhelmo" confirmed the foundation of Schiffenberg, with the consent of "domne Gertrudis palatine…[et] Adela filia eiusdem palatine", by charter dated 1141[731]."
Med Lands cites:
[722] Annalista Saxo 1062.
[723] ES I.2 182.
[724] ES I.2 182.
[725] Mittelrheinisches Urkundenbuch Band I, 425, p. 487.
[726] Annales Corbeienses, Bibliotheca Rerum Germanicarum, Tome I, p. 42.
[727] Reitzenstein, C. von (1871) Regesten der Grafen von Orlamünde (Bayreuth) ("Orlamünde Regesten"), p. 27.
[728] Annalista Saxo 1101.
[729] Mainz Urkunden 12th Century, 5, p. 7.
[730] Jungio, J. H. (1774) (Hannover) Historiæ antiquísima comitatus Benthemiensis, Codex diplomatum et documentorum variorum pro Historia Benthemiensi ("Codex diplomatum Benthemiensi"), V, p. 9.
[731] Heinemann, O. van (ed.) (1867) Codex Diplomaticus Anhaltinus (Dessau), Teil I, 285, p. 211.11

; NB: Racines et Histoire (Enghien) says "Hedwige de Bentheim ° ~1120 (fille d’Otto, comte palatin du Rhin, et de Gertrud von Norheim)." Genealogy.EU (Luxemburg 4) also shows a dau. Hedwige for Otto and Gertrude and that this Hedwig "m. Hughues d Enghien." However, neither Genealogics nor Med Lands lists a daughter named Hedwig for Otto and Gertrude. There is generally disagreement concerning the wives of Huwes/Hugues d'Enghien, and Hedwige could be an error, or the attribution of parents might be an error.
Conclusion: I have chosen to leave Hed as a dau. of Otto and Gertrude for now. GA Vaut.16,15,13,14,17

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html
  2. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Ascan 1 page - House of Ascania: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/ascania/ascan1.html
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gertrude von Northeim: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104725&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXON%20NOBILITY.htm#GertrudNortheimdied1165. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Luxemburg 4 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/luxemburg/luxemburg4.html
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Heinrich von Northeim: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00060576&tree=LEO
  7. [S2052] Douglas Richardson, "Richardson email 27 Mar 2006: "Ducal Kinsfolk: Duke Henry of Bavaria & Saxony's kinsman, Friedrich II, Count Palatine of Saxony"," e-mail message from e-mail address (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/Bwy-wiR4HzY/m/_WjBWUor01IJ) to e-mail address, 26 Mar 2006, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/Bwy-wiR4HzY/m/_WjBWUor01IJ. Hereinafter cited as "Richardson email 26 Mar 2006."
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gertrud von Meissen: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00060577&tree=LEO
  9. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Ascan 1 page - House of Ascania: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/ascania/ascan1.html
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Siegfried von Ballenstedt: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00330255&tree=LEO
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/THURINGIAN%20NOBILITY.htm#SiegfriedIOrlamundedied1113
  12. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104724&tree=LEO
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104724&tree=LEO
  14. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#OttoSalmRheineckdied1150
  15. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, House of Ascania (Ascan 1): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/ascania/ascan1.html
  16. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Maison d’ Enghien, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Enghien.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  17. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 21 Aug 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  18. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Otto: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104726&tree=LEO
  19. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Beatrix von Rheineck: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00104728&tree=LEO
  20. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm#SophieRheineckdied1176
  21. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophia von Rheineck: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00018668&tree=LEO
  22. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Enghien.pdf, p. 2.

Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz1

M, #20279, b. 985, d. between 1044 and 1046
FatherOtto (?)2 d. b 1016
ReferenceGAV29
Last Edited22 Aug 2020
     Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz married Erlende de Jodoigne; NB Per Wikipedia: "Giselbert's wife is not known with any certainty. A wife named Erlende is sometimes mentioned in genealogies, including the Europaische Stammtafeln. As explained by Baerten (1965 part I) this is no longer accepted."3,4 Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz was born in 985.1 He married Luitgarde (?) de Namur, daughter of Albert I (?) Cte de Namur, Ct in the Lommengouw and Adelaide/Ermengarde (?) of Lorraine; NB See the Wikipedia and Med Lands entries discussions of who might have been the wife of Giselbert and mother of his children. Most seem to settle on Luitgarde de Namur a the most reasonable candidate. Only Genealogics, quoting the Europaische Stammtafeln, differs.1,4,5,6
Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz died between 1044 and 1046.1,7
     ; Per Wikipedia:
     "Giselbert van Loon (c. 980 – c. 1045) is probably the first, and certainly the first definitely known count of the County of Loon, a territory which to roughly correspond to the modern Belgian province of Limburg, and generations later became a part of the Prince-bishopric of Liège. Very little is known about him except that he had two brothers, one of whom, Bishop Balderic II of Liège, is much better attested in historical records.
     "It is not certain when Giselbert started his rule, but his brother Balderic became Bishop by 1008. The Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia implies that Giselbert did not become count until about 1021, after his brother Balderic died in 1018, and it says there were some years between his father's death and him taking up the position. Records from Liège on the other hand seem to indicate that Giselbert was already an adult and count during his brother's reign.
     "Giselbert apparently died around 1045, because in 1044 a charter of St. Barthélémy of Liége mentions a count Giselbert, probably (but not certainly) him, and in May 1046 the next generation of counts, the brothers Emmo and Otto, appear as counts of Loon.[1]
     "Giselbert's county was based in Borgloon, originally simply called Loon. The castle, probably built by his grandson, was a motte-and-bailey, with a hall and a chapel in the front court.[2] The area forms the core of the modern town. The castle itself was destroyed some generations later and the hill on which it stood was excavated in the 19th century.
     "Giselbert's parents are not known for sure but it was proposed by Léon Vanderkindere that he is likely to be an descendant of Count Nevelong, who is known to have married a Regnarid, bringing together two important families in the region with the right types of influence to put the brothers into their various positions. Two specific modern hypotheses have been published: that he was a son of Count Rudolf, Count of Betuwe (Nevelong's son), or Otto, Count of Looz, which would make Giselbert Nevelong's grandson.[3] The 14th century writer of the Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382 says that the parents of Giselbert and Balderic were Count Otto of Loon and his wife Lutgarde, daughter of Countess Ermengarde of Namur, who was a daughter of Duke Otto of Lower Lotharingia. But there are doubts about this late source.
     "Concerning the ancestry of Giselbert and his two brothers, Bishop Balderic II of Liège, about which more is written than his brothers, was said to be a kinsman of both Lambert I, Count of Louvain and Arnoul of Valenciennes, a grandson of Nevelong and his Regnarid wife.[4] He also shared blood with two clerics who, like the Balderics but unlike the Regnarids, seem to have been kinsmen of the Ottonian dynasty in Germany, Gerard of Florennes, and Bishop Arnulf (archbishop of Reims).[5] Nevelong's family, furthermore, are called the "Balderics" because they had two bishops with this name in generations before Balderic II: Nvelong's brother Balderic was Bishop of Utrecht and Nevelong's son Balderic was the first Bishop of Liège with that name.
     "Balderic was able to donate his personal possessions at Pannerden in Batavia (Betuwe), as area associated with the family of Nevelong, to the church in Liège. More difficult to interpret, and also related to the same general northern river delta area, just before the Battle of Vlaardingen, where Balderic died of sickness on campaign, he was accused of wanting to spare a blood-relative, which implies a close relationship to Count Dirk III of Holland.[6]
     "Giselbert's brother Arnulf (or Arnoul, or Arnold) was apparently described in 1040 as count of a county named Haspinga, in the land of Haspingow, a reference which has caused many different interpretations.[7] It is probable that when Haspinga was donated to the Prince-bishopric of Liège, Loon, itself a fief of Haspinga, became a fief of Liege. In any case when the male line of the Counts died out, the Bishop claimed the county successfully.
     "Giselbert was the first known guardian of the goods (voogd, advocatus) of the Saint-Jacobs-Abbey Liege, founded by his brother Balderic.
     "Giselbert was succeeded as Count of Loon by:
** Count Emmo (d. before 1078), probably his son
** Count Otto, who may have shared his brother's rule in some way.

     "Otto's son Giselbert II, Count of Duras, married Oda, daughter of Otto II, Count of Chiny. Giselbert later battled Arnold II, Count of Looz, the grandson of Emmo, over the Abbey of Sint-Truiden.
     "Giselbert's wife is not known with any certainty. A wife named Erlende is sometimes mentioned in genealogies, including the Europaische Stammtafeln. As explained by Baerten (1965 part I) this is no longer accepted. The Vita Arnulfi describes Lutgarde of Namur as mother of both Emmo Count of Loon, who was father of Count Arnulf of Loon and his sister Sophia, and also Otto, who was father of Count Gislebert of Duras. This Lutgarde is described as a sister of Count Albert of Namur. Her husband is not named there.[8] But the Gesta of St Trudo appears to say that the same Lutgarde was the mother of Bishop Balderic II, the brother of Emmo's supposed father Gilbert.[9] This implies that Gilbert was a brother to Emmo. On the other hand, these sources are in conflict with each other and at least one of them seems to be misinterpreting the facts.
Notes
1. Verhelst (1984) believes it is not him in 1044, but a Gilbert who was advocate of the Abbey of St Truiden, and a member of the comital family of Duras in 1023. He also doubts that Giselbert of Loon was the father of Emmo and Otto. There is no medieval source which says Giselbert was father of the next counts, the brothers Emmo and Otto. The 1044 charter is analyzed in Bormans (1861) "Notice d'un manuscrit intitulé Cartulaire de Van den Berch, conservé aux archives de l'État, à Liège" Bulletin de la Commission royale d'Histoire 3rd series 2 p.280 [1]. The 1046 charter is reproduced in Miraeus (Foppens ed.) Opera diplomatica et historica III p.303
2. Vaes p.129
3. Rudolf is the proposal of Vanderkindere, accepted as most likely also by Baerten. Otto is proposed in two different ways. J.M. Winter proposed that Otto was a son of Rudolf, and Jongbloed of Nevelong's daughter Bertha.
4. That bishop Balderic II of Liège had common ancestry with Count Arnoul, who modern historians believe to mean Arnoul of Valenciennes, grandson of Nevelong, is mentioned in his biography the Vita Balderici Ep. Leodensis link. That bishop Balderic II had common ancestry with Lambert Count of Louvain is stated in the Gesta episcoporum Cameracensium, lib. III, ch. 5, M.G.H., SS., t. vii, p. 467-468.
5. For the 2 clerics, Kupper refers to the Catalogus codicum hagiographicorum Bibliothecae regiae bruxellensis, Part I, Vol. 2 p.486 (1008-1012)
6. Vita Balderici p.735.
7. Latin: "comitatum Arnoldi comitis nomine Haspinga in pago Haspingowi", in a grant of this county by Emperor Henry III to Saint Lambert's Cathedral, Liège. See MGH DD H III 35 p.45
8. Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
9. Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382
References
** Baerten (1965), "Les origines des comtes de Looz et la formation territoriale du comté", Revue belge de philologie et d'histoire, 43 (2): link
** Baerten, Jean (1969), Het Graafschap Loon (11de - 14de eeuw) link
** Jongbloed (2008), "Flamenses in de elfde eeuw", Bijdragen en Mededelingen Gelre
** Kupper, Jean-Louis. (1981) Liège et l’Église impériale aux XIe-XIIe siècles [en línea]. Liége: Presses universitaires de Liège link. ISBN 9782821828681. doi:10.4000/books.pulg.1472.
** Kupper, Jean-Louis (2013), "La donation de la comtesse Ermengarde à l'Église de Liège (1078)" (PDF), Bulletin de la Commission royale d'Histoire Année, 179: 5–50
** Vaes, Jan (2016), De Graven van Loon. Loons, Luiks, Limburgs, ISBN 9789059087651
** Vanderkindere, Léon (1902), La formation territoriale des principautés belges au Moyen Age (PDF), 2, p. 128
** J.M. Van Winter (1981) "De voornaamste adelijke geslachten in de Nederlanden in de 10de en 11de eeuw" in Blok, Algemene geschiedenis der Nederlanden
** Verhelst (1984 and 1985) "Een nieuwe visie op de omvang en indeling van de pagus Hasbania" Handelingen van de Koninklijke Zuidnederlandsche Maatschappij voor Taal- en Letterkunde en Geschiednis."4


Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 6:60.7

; NB There is disagreement about the parents of Giselbert:

     Genealogics shows Giselbert to be the son of Rudolf, citing Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.)
6:60.

     Med Lands shows him to be the son of Rudolf's brother, Otto. Med Lands says:
"His relationship to the Looz family is confirmed by the Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium which names "Baldricus secundus…frater Ghiselbertus", when recording the former's installation as Bishop of Liège, read together with another part of the same passage which names "Baldricus secundus…filius Ottonis comitis de Los ex Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ…"[776]. As noted above, no other reference has been found to the father of Giselbert and Baldric being named Otto. Europäische Stammtafeln shows Giselbert and his brothers as sons of Rudolf[777], although from a chronological point of view this seems unlikely to be correct."

Med Lands cites:
[776] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.
[777] ES XVIII 56.


     Wikipedia (Gilbert of Loon) says:
"Giselbert's parents are not known for sure but it was proposed by Léon Vanderkindere that he is likely to be an descendant of Count Nevelong, who is known to have married a Regnarid, bringing together two important families in the region with the right types of influence to put the brothers into their various positions. Two specific modern hypotheses have been published: that he was a son of Count Rudolf, Count of Betuwe (Nevelong's son), or Otto, Count of Looz, which would make Giselbert Nevelong's grandson.[3] The 14th century writer of the Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382 says that the parents of Giselbert and Balderic were Count Otto of Loon and his wife Lutgarde, daughter of Countess Ermengarde of Namur, who was a daughter of Duke Otto of Lower Lotharingia. But there are doubts about this late source."

Wikipedia cites:
** Note 4. Rudolf is the proposal of Vanderkindere, accepted as most likely also by Baerten. Otto is proposed in two different ways. J.M. Winter proposed that Otto was a son of Rudolf, and Jongbloed of Nevelong's daughter Bertha.
** Monumenta Germaniae historica: https://books.google.be/books?id=gRAaxM2uGjIC&pg=PA382#v=onepage&q&f=false
** Vanderkindere, Léon (1902), La formation territoriale des principautés belges au Moyen Age (PDF), 2, p. 128
** J.M. Van Winter (1981) "De voornaamste adelijke geslachten in de Nederlanden in de 10de en 11de eeuw" in Blok, Algemene geschiedenis der Nederlanden


     Wikipedia (Rudolf, son of Nevelong) says:
"Because of the incomplete records available, there is considerable uncertainty as to whether Giselbert, Count of Looz, was the son of Rudolf, which no old record suggests, or the son of an otherwise unknown person named in one much later record as Otto, Count of Looz."



     Genealogy.EU (Looz 1) places Giselbert as the son of Rudolf, without comment or citing sources.

For the present, I have chosen to place Gisebert as the son of Otto, Rudolf's brother. G A Vaut.7,5,4,8,1,9


; Per Genealogy.EU: "Giselbert von Looz, *985, +1044; m.Luitgard de Namur."1
GAV-29 EDV-28 GKJ-28.

; Per Med Lands:
     "GISELBERT, son of [Comte OTTO & his wife ---] (-[1044/46]). His relationship to the Looz family is confirmed by the Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium which names "Baldricus secundus…frater Ghiselbertus", when recording the former's installation as Bishop of Liège, read together with another part of the same passage which names "Baldricus secundus…filius Ottonis comitis de Los ex Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ…"[776]. As noted above, no other reference has been found to the father of Giselbert and Baldric being named Otto. Europäische Stammtafeln shows Giselbert and his brothers as sons of Rudolf[777], although from a chronological point of view this seems unlikely to be correct. Comte de Looz. “Gislebertus et Arnulfus comites fratres mei, Wigerus advocatus, Godefridus de Florines...” witnessed the charter dated 1015 of Baldric Bishop of Liège relating to Hanret and Celles[778]. "Baldricus…Leodiensis ecclesiæ sacerdos" founded the abbey of Liège Saint-Jacques, in the presence of "fratribus meis Gisleberto…comite de Los et Arnulfo", by charter dated 1016, witnessed by "…Arnulfus comes frater comitis Gisleberti"[779]. [“Comitibus hiis: Hecelone, Henrico, Gisilberto, Sibodone, Arnulfo” subscribed the charter dated 1029 under which Poppo Archbishop of Trier deplored damage caused to monasteries and donated “ecclesiam Longuion” to the abbey of Notre-Dame-des-Martyrs[780]. It is not certain whether “Gisilberto” was Giselbert Comte de Duras or Giselbert Comte de Looz.] A charter dated 1031, which records that "Godeschalkus præpositus" founded the church of Saint-Barthélemy near Liège, states that “Baldricus episcopus” had granted “allodium de Butines...de Aila” to “fratris sui Gisleberti comtiis de Lon”[781]. "Chonradus…Romanorum imperator augustus" confirmed property "in Alsatia et in comitatibus Gisilberti et Wezilonis comitum" to Kloster Peterlingen by charter dated 1027[782]. "Domina Adelaydis comitissa uxor quondam Hludovici comitis" donated property to Verdun Saint-Vanne by undated charter, subscribed by "Gislebertus comes"[783].
     "m ---. The identity of the wife of Comte Giselbert has not been established beyond doubt. The Vita Arnulfi names "Lugerdam, Godam, Ermengardam" as the three sisters of "Albertus comes Namurcensis", and adds that Liutgarde was the mother of "Emmonem et Ottonem fratrem eius", although without naming Liutgarde´s husband[784]. From a chronological point of view, it appears likely that Emmo and Otto were the sons of Giselbert, although no primary source has so far been found which names their father. If this is correct, Giselbert´s wife was Liutgarde de Namur, daughter of Albert [I] Comte de Namur & his wife Ermengardis of Lower Lotharingia [Carolingian]. As discussed above, another version is provided by the Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium which names "Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ" as wife of "Ottonis comitis de Los" and the couple as parents of "Baldricus secundus"[785]. However, as discussed above, this appears chronologically impossible. Until more information comes to light, it appears preferable to assume that Liutgarde was the mother of Emmo and Otto which, if correct, means that she was probably the wife of Giselbert."
Med Lands cites:
[776] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.
[777] ES XVIII 56.
[778] Borman & Poncelet (1925), Tome II, p. 123.
[779] Foppens (1734), Tome III, Pars II, XVII, p. 297.
[780] Orval, I, p. 1.
[781] Miraeus (1723), Tome II, VIII, p. 809.
[782] D K II 87, p. 118.
[783] Verdun Saint-Vanne (1898), XXXVII, p. 442.
[784] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
[785] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.5

; NB: There is some disagreement as to whether the Sophie von Looz who m. Geza I was the dau. of Giselbert per Genealogics (citing: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 2:154), and Genealogy.EU (Looz 1), or the dau. of Emmo, Giselbert's son, (per Med Lands).10,11,12

Family 1

Erlende de Jodoigne

Family 2

Luitgarde (?) de Namur
Children

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#RudolfBetuwedied967orafter. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Erlende de Jodoigne: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106440&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giselbert_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#GislebertLoozdied1044A
  6. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#LiutgardeEmmaMOttoGislebertLooz
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Giselbert: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106439&tree=LEO
  8. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 19 Dec 2019; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  9. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf,_son_of_Nevelong.
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Sophie of Looz: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139747&tree=LEO
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078A
  12. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html#SG
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Emmo/Immo: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106441&tree=LEO
  14. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078

Luitgarde (?) de Namur1,2

F, #20280
FatherAlbert I (?) Cte de Namur, Ct in the Lommengouw3,4 b. bt 959 - 970, d. b 1011
MotherAdelaide/Ermengarde (?) of Lorraine2,5,6 b. c 980, d. a 1012
ReferenceGAV28 EDV28
Last Edited22 Aug 2020
     Luitgarde (?) de Namur married Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz, son of Otto (?); NB See the Wikipedia and Med Lands entries discussions of who might have been the wife of Giselbert and mother of his children. Most seem to settle on Luitgarde de Namur a the most reasonable candidate. Only Genealogics, quoting the Europaische Stammtafeln, differs.1,7,8,2
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "GISELBERT, son of [Comte OTTO & his wife ---] (-[1044/46]). His relationship to the Looz family is confirmed by the Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium which names "Baldricus secundus…frater Ghiselbertus", when recording the former's installation as Bishop of Liège, read together with another part of the same passage which names "Baldricus secundus…filius Ottonis comitis de Los ex Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ…"[776]. As noted above, no other reference has been found to the father of Giselbert and Baldric being named Otto. Europäische Stammtafeln shows Giselbert and his brothers as sons of Rudolf[777], although from a chronological point of view this seems unlikely to be correct. Comte de Looz. “Gislebertus et Arnulfus comites fratres mei, Wigerus advocatus, Godefridus de Florines...” witnessed the charter dated 1015 of Baldric Bishop of Liège relating to Hanret and Celles[778]. "Baldricus…Leodiensis ecclesiæ sacerdos" founded the abbey of Liège Saint-Jacques, in the presence of "fratribus meis Gisleberto…comite de Los et Arnulfo", by charter dated 1016, witnessed by "…Arnulfus comes frater comitis Gisleberti"[779]. [“Comitibus hiis: Hecelone, Henrico, Gisilberto, Sibodone, Arnulfo” subscribed the charter dated 1029 under which Poppo Archbishop of Trier deplored damage caused to monasteries and donated “ecclesiam Longuion” to the abbey of Notre-Dame-des-Martyrs[780]. It is not certain whether “Gisilberto” was Giselbert Comte de Duras or Giselbert Comte de Looz.] A charter dated 1031, which records that "Godeschalkus præpositus" founded the church of Saint-Barthélemy near Liège, states that “Baldricus episcopus” had granted “allodium de Butines...de Aila” to “fratris sui Gisleberti comtiis de Lon”[781]. "Chonradus…Romanorum imperator augustus" confirmed property "in Alsatia et in comitatibus Gisilberti et Wezilonis comitum" to Kloster Peterlingen by charter dated 1027[782]. "Domina Adelaydis comitissa uxor quondam Hludovici comitis" donated property to Verdun Saint-Vanne by undated charter, subscribed by "Gislebertus comes"[783].
     "m ---. The identity of the wife of Comte Giselbert has not been established beyond doubt. The Vita Arnulfi names "Lugerdam, Godam, Ermengardam" as the three sisters of "Albertus comes Namurcensis", and adds that Liutgarde was the mother of "Emmonem et Ottonem fratrem eius", although without naming Liutgarde´s husband[784]. From a chronological point of view, it appears likely that Emmo and Otto were the sons of Giselbert, although no primary source has so far been found which names their father. If this is correct, Giselbert´s wife was Liutgarde de Namur, daughter of Albert [I] Comte de Namur & his wife Ermengardis of Lower Lotharingia [Carolingian]. As discussed above, another version is provided by the Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium which names "Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ" as wife of "Ottonis comitis de Los" and the couple as parents of "Baldricus secundus"[785]. However, as discussed above, this appears chronologically impossible. Until more information comes to light, it appears preferable to assume that Liutgarde was the mother of Emmo and Otto which, if correct, means that she was probably the wife of Giselbert."
Med Lands cites:
[776] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.
[777] ES XVIII 56.
[778] Borman & Poncelet (1925), Tome II, p. 123.
[779] Foppens (1734), Tome III, Pars II, XVII, p. 297.
[780] Orval, I, p. 1.
[781] Miraeus (1723), Tome II, VIII, p. 809.
[782] D K II 87, p. 118.
[783] Verdun Saint-Vanne (1898), XXXVII, p. 442.
[784] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.
[785] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.8


; Per Med Lands: " [LIUTGARDE [Emma] de Namur . The Genealogica ex Stirpe Sancti Arnulfi names "Hadewidem et Emmam de Los" as the two daughters of "Ermengardis [filiæ Karoli ducis]"[57]. The primary sources are contradictory regarding the identify of Liutgarde´s husband. The Gesta Abbatem Trudonensium names "Lutgarde filia Hermegardis Namurcensis comitissæ, Ottonis prefati ducis filie" as wife of "Ottonis comitis de Los", and the couple as parents of Baldric [II] Bishop of Liège[58]. From a chronological point of view, it is impossible for a daughter of Albert I Comte de Namur and his wife Ermengarde (married in 990) to have been the mother of Baldric Bishop of Liège (installed as bishop in 1008). Another version is provided by the Vita Arnulfi which names "Lugerdam, Godam, Ermengardam" as the three sisters of "Albertus comes Namurcensis", adding that Liutgarde was the mother of "Emmonem et Ottonem fratrem eius"[59]. No primary source has so far been found which names the father of the brothers Emmo and Otto. From a chronological point of view, it is possible that their father was Giselbert, son of Otto. If this is correct, it is possible that Liutgarde´s husband was Giselbert Comte de Looz. [m OTTO Comte [de Looz], son of [RUDOLF & his wife ---] (-[before 1016]).] [m GISELBERT Comte de Looz, son of OTTO Comte [de Looz] & his wife --- (-[1044/46]).]"
Med Lands cites:
[57] Genealogica ex Stirpe Sancti Arnulfi descendentium Mettensis 4, MGH SS XXV, p. 383.
[58] Gestorum Abbatem Trudonensium Continuatio Tertia 1007, MGH SS X, p. 382.
[59] Vita Arnulfi Episcopi Suessioniensis I.3, MGH SS XV.2, p. 879.2
GAV-28 EDV-28 GKJ-28.

Family

Giselbert von Looz Graf von Looz b. 985, d. bt 1044 - 1046
Children

Citations

  1. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Looz 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/small/looz1.html
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#LiutgardeEmmaMOttoGislebertLooz. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S812] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=bferris, Jr. William R. Ferris (unknown location), downloaded updated 4 Apr 2002, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bferris&id=I25021
  4. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#AlbertIdied1011B
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NAMUR.htm#AlbertIdied1011A
  6. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Namur, p. 3: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Namur.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giselbert_of_Loon. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#GislebertLoozdied1044A
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.htm#EmmoLoozdied1078