Person Page - 408

     John Dynham KG., 1st/7th Lord Dinham married Elizabeth Willoughby de Broke, daughter of Robert Willoughby KG, 1st Lord Willoughby de Broke, 8th/9th Lord Latimer of Corby and Blanche Champernoun,
; his 2nd wife; her 1st husband.^2,5 John Dynham KG., 1st/7th Lord Dinham was born circa 1434.² He married Elizabeth Fitz Walter Baroness FitzWalter, daughter of Walter Fitz Walter 7th Lord Fitz Walter and Elizabeth Chidiock, circa 15 March 1466/67.^6,7,8,9,2

John Dynham KG., 1st/7th Lord Dinham died between 28 January 1500 and 1501.^2,8
      ; van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: XII/2 947.²

; van de Pas cites: The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: XII/2 947.² He was Treasurer of the Exchequer.⁸

.⁶ John Dynham KG., 1st/7th Lord Dinham was also known as John Dinham 1st/7th Lord Dinham.²

     John Radcliffe 9th Lord Fitz Walter was born on 1 January 1451/52.^8,4,3 He married Margaret Whetehill, daughter of Richard Whetehill Esq. and Joan (?), circa 6 July 1475.^8,1,4,3,9

John Radcliffe 9th Lord Fitz Walter died on 24 November 1496 at Calais, France, at age 44; beheaded as a prisoner.^8,4,3
     John Radcliffe 9th Lord Fitz Walter lived at Guildford, co. Surrey, England.⁸ He was Warden and Chief Justice of the King's forests South of Trent.⁸

; van de Pas cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: P 57677.³

; JOHN RADCLIFFE, 9th Lord (Baron) FitzWalter; b 1 Jan 1451/2; Steward Household by 19 Oct 1485, Jt Warden and Ch Justice King's Forests S of Trent 14 Jan 1485/6 and all King's Forests 25 Feb 1485/6; allegedly m 1st Anne, sis of Richard Whetehill, of Calais; m (?)2nd(?) c 6 July 1475 Margaret - (possibly it was she who was dau of Robert Whetehill) and by her had issue; implicated in conspiracy of Perkin Warbeck and attainted of high treason soon after 14 Oct 1495, when his lands and honours became forfeited; imprisoned at Guines, nr Calais, and after an abortive jail break was beheaded at Calais c 24 Nov 1496.¹

; Faris (1999, p. 298): "JOHN RADCLIFFE, Lord Fitz Walter, of Guildford, Surrey, son and heir, was born on 1 Jan. 1451/2. He was appointed Steward of the King's Household before 19 Oct. 1485. On 14 Jan. 1485/6 he was appointed joint Warden and Chief Justice of the King's forests South of Trent, and 25 February following, of all the King's forests, for life. He was summoned to Parliament from 15 Sep. 1485 by writs directed Johanni Radclyff', de Fitz Wauter. He was married, evidently, about 6 July 1475, to MARGARET WHETEHILL, widow, with three children, of Thomas Walden, Gent., Merchant of the Staple of Calais (died 1474), and daughter of Richard Whetehill, Esq., Mayor of Calais, Merchant of the Staple, by his wife Joan. They had one son and five daughters. JOHN RADCLIFFE, Lord Fitz Walter, was attainted of high treason in 1495 as a confederate of Piers (or Perkin) Warbeck, and was beheaded at Calais about 24 Nov. 1496.
C.P. 5:486-487 (1926). Mary Isaac (1955), p. 268-272 (Whetehill arms: Per fesse, azure and or, a pale counterchanged, three lions rampant or). Paget (1977), p. 264. Early Chancery Proceedings 2:151,153." He was Lord (Baron) FitzWalter.^8,1 He was M.P. from 15 September 1485 to.⁸ He was Steward of the King's Household before 19 October 1485.⁸

     Margaret Whetehill married Thomas Walden Gent., of London
; her 1st husband.¹ Margaret Whetehill married John Radcliffe 9th Lord Fitz Walter, son of Sir John Radcliffe Lord Fitz Walter and Elizabeth Fitz Walter Baroness FitzWalter, circa 6 July 1475.^3,4,1,5,2

      ; van de Pas cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald, Reference: P 57678.^3,2 Margaret Whetehill was living on 25 October 1516.¹

     Richard Whetehill Esq. married Joan (?)¹

     Richard Whetehill Esq. lived at Calais, France.¹ He was Merchant of the Staple at Calais, France.¹ He was Mayor of Calais at Calais, France.¹

     Joan (?) married Richard Whetehill Esq.¹

      .¹

     Lady Elizabeth Stafford Lady Fitz Walter married Robert Radcliffe KB, KG, 10th Lord Fitz Walter, 1st Earl of Sussex, son of John Radcliffe 9th Lord Fitz Walter and Margaret Whetehill, after 23 July 1505
; his 1st wife.^4,5,6,1,2,3
Lady Elizabeth Stafford Lady Fitz Walter died before 11 May 1532.^4,1,2
      ; van de Pas cites: 1.The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: XII 517
2. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 500
3. Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 119,891.^7,1

     Sir Henry Fitz Alan KG, PC, 19th/12th Earl of Arundel married Lady Catherine Grey, daughter of Thomas Grey KB, KG, Lord Ferrers of Groby, 2nd Marquess of Dorset and Margaret Wotton,
; his 1st wife.^1,3 Sir Henry Fitz Alan KG, PC, 19th/12th Earl of Arundel was born on 23 April 1512.^2,3 He married Mary Arundell Countess of Sussex, daughter of Sir John Arundell Knt, KB, of Lanherne, Cornwall and Jane (Katherine) Grenville, on 19 December 1545
; his 2nd wife; her 2nd husband.^5,3,6,7,8
Sir Henry Fitz Alan KG, PC, 19th/12th Earl of Arundel was buried after 24 February 1580 at Arundel, co. Sussex, England.³
Sir Henry Fitz Alan KG, PC, 19th/12th Earl of Arundel died on 24 February 1579/80 at London, City of London, Greater London, England, at age 67.^9,3
     He was 19th/12th Earl of Arundel.²

; HENRY Fitz ALAN, 19th/12th Earl of Arundel, KG (1544), PC (1546); b 23 April 1512 (HENRY VIII stood sponsor); educ Cambridge; Page of Hon to HENRY VIII; called up to Ho Lds 5 Feb 1532/3 vp as LORD (Baron) MAUTRAVERS; Dep Govr Calais 1540-44; Marshal of the Field against French in Boulogne Campaign which ended in the capture of that town; Ld Chamberlain 1546-Jan 1549/50; Ld Steward Household 1553; had ambition to marry ELIZABETH I but on her turning him down he threw up all his appointments 1564; abetted his s-in-law 4th Duke of Norfolk's designs on the hand in marriage of MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS, for which imprisoned; m 1st Lady Catharine Grey, dau of 2nd Marquess of Dorset and aunt of LADY JANE GREY; m 2nd 19 Dec 1545 Mary, dau of Sir John Arundell, of Lanherne, Cornwall, and widow of 10th Lord (Baron) FitzWalter (qv), and dspms 24 Feb 1579/80, when the male line of the Fitz Alans expired, having had no issue by her but having had by his 1st w.²

.⁹

     Ralph Neville 2nd Earl of Westmorland, 5th Baron Nevill of Raby was born on 17 September 1406 or 22 September 1406.^3,2 He married Elizabeth Percy, daughter of Henry "Hotspur" de Percy Knt., KB KG, Lord and Lady Elizabeth Mortimer, between 7 May 1426 and 30 August 1426
; her 2nd husband, his 1st wife; contract dated 7 May 1426; licesne dated 20 July 1426.^{6,3,7,8,1,9,2} Ralph Neville 2nd Earl of Westmorland, 5th Baron Nevill of Raby married Margaret Cobham, daughter of Sir Reynold de Cobham, before February 1442
; his 2nd wife.^3,2
Ralph Neville 2nd Earl of Westmorland, 5th Baron Nevill of Raby died on 3 November 1484.^6,1,2
     He was 2nd Earl of Westmorland of the 1397 cr.^6,3,10

; RALPH NEVILL(E), 2nd EARL OF WESTMORLAND; b 17 or 22 Sept 1406/7; ktd 19 May 1426 in the Parl at Leicester by the infant HENRY VI, Commr to keep the truce with Scotland 1426, 1430 and 1437/8, commr of array in the N and Capt in the Marches towards Scotland 1436, commr of array in the N to resist the rebellion 1459 of his unc-by-marriage (see below) Richard 3rd Duke of York (ggs of EDWARD III and the Yorkist claimant to the throne till his death 1460) and to oppose the Scots and HENRY VI 1461; m 1st between 7 May and 30 Aug 1426 Elizabeth (d 26 Oct 1437), dau of Sir Henry ('Harry Hotspur') Percy, s of 1st and last Earl of Northumberland of the 1377 cr (see NORTHUMBERLAND, D) and widow of 7th Lord (Baron) Clifford (see DE CLIFFORD, B); m 2nd c Feb 1441/2 Margaret (dsps before 1461), dau and heiress of Sir Reynold de Cobham, and d 3 Nov 1484, having had issue by his 1st wife.³

Reference: van de Pas cites:
     1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 394
     2. Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 1013
     3. The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: XII/2 549
     4. Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 1999 , Reference: Page 15.^6,2

     Elizabeth Clifford married Robert Plumpton, son of Sir William Plumpton Knt. and Elizabeth/Agnes Stapleton, on 10 August 1446
; her 1st husband; date of contract.^6,2 Elizabeth Clifford married Sir William Plumpton Knt., of of Knaesborough, Torkshire, son of Sir William Plumpton Knt. and Elizabeth/Agnes Stapleton, circa 1453
; her 2nd husband; date of dispensation.^7,1,2 Elizabeth Clifford married John Hamerton after 1461
; her 3rd husband.²
      ; van de Pas cites: Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 830.^1,8 Elizabeth Clifford was living between 1 February 1479 and 1480.²

     Sir William Plumpton Knt., of of Knaesborough, Torkshire was born in 1435.¹ He married Elizabeth Clifford, daughter of Thomas Clifford 8th Lord Clifford and Joan Dacre, circa 1453
; her 2nd husband; date of dispensation.^4,5,1
Sir William Plumpton Knt., of of Knaesborough, Torkshire died on 29 March 1461 at Battle of Towton Field, Ferrybridge (Towton, Selby District), North Yorkshire, England.¹
      .⁴

     Sir Lancelot Threlkeld Knt., of Threlkeld, Cumberland married Margaret Bromflete, daughter of Sir Henry Bromflete Knt., 1st Baron de Vesci and Eleanor/Alianore Fitz Hugh, before 14 May 1467
; her 2nd husband.^3,4,1,2,5,6
Sir Lancelot Threlkeld Knt., of Threlkeld, Cumberland died before 12 April 1493.²
     Sir Lancelot Threlkeld Knt., of Threlkeld, Cumberland lived at Threlkeld, co. Cumberland, England.³

     Elizabeth Clifford married Sir Robert Aske of Aughton, Yorks, son of Sir John Aske of Aughton, Yorks and Elizabeth Bigod, in 1482.^5,6,1

      .⁵

     Sir Robert Aske of Aughton, Yorks was born before 1465.¹ He married Elizabeth Clifford, daughter of Lord John Clifford 9th Lord Clifford and Margaret Bromflete, in 1482.^2,1,3

Sir Robert Aske of Aughton, Yorks died in 1531.¹
      .⁴

     Florence Pudsey married Sir Thomas Talbot Knt., of Bashall in Craven
; her 1st husband.^4,5,1,3 Florence Pudsey married Lord Richard Grey, son of Thomas Grey KB, KG, 1st Marquess of Dorset, 8th Lord Ferrers of Groby, Lord Astley and Cecily Bonville Baroness Harington and Bonville,
; her 3rd husband; per Verity "Lady Florence had a third marriage arranged for her by Henry VIII to Lord Richard Grey, younger son of the 1st Marquess of Dorset."^4,5,1,2,3 Florence Pudsey married Henry 'the Shepherd Lord' Clifford Knt., KB, 10th Lord Clifford, KB, son of Lord John Clifford 9th Lord Clifford and Margaret Bromflete, before 11 July 1511
; her 2nd husband; his 2nd wife.^8,5,1,9,2,3
Florence Pudsey died in 1558.⁵
      ; van de Pas cites: Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage, London, Reference: 759.²

.⁸

     Anne Clifford was born between 1495 and 1496.⁵ She married Robert Clifton Esq., of Clifton, Nottinghamshire, son of Sir Gervase Clifton of Clifton, Nottinghamshire and Agnes Clifton, before 1515
; per Verity: "had one son (born March 1516) and one daughter."^5,2,6 Anne Clifford married Ralph Melford Esq., of Arnold, Nottinghamshire circa 1520
; her 2nd husband.^7,5,1,2
Anne Clifford died before 1546.⁵
      .⁷

     Ralph Melford Esq., of Arnold, Nottinghamshire married Anne Clifford, daughter of Henry 'the Shepherd Lord' Clifford Knt., KB, 10th Lord Clifford, KB and Anne Saint John, circa 1520
; her 2nd husband.^2,1,3,4
Ralph Melford Esq., of Arnold, Nottinghamshire died before 22 April 1546.^1,4
Ralph Melford Esq., of Arnold, Nottinghamshire was buried on 22 April 1546 at Arnold, Nottinghamshire, England.⁴
      .²

     Margery Clifton married Sir Edward Hastings Knt, 8th Lord Hastings, son of Sir Hugh de Hastings Knt., of Elsing and Gressenhall and Anne le Despenser, before 1432
; his 2nd wife; her 1st husband.^3,1 Margery Clifton married Sir John Wymondham/Wyndhyam of Felbridge and Runton, Norfolk in 1440
; her 2nd husband.^2,1,4
Margery Clifton died in 1456.^2,1
      .³

     Elizabeth Hastings was born before 1440; Faris says "prob bef 1440."^8,4 She married Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire, son of Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire and Katherine de la Hay, before 1460
; eleven sons and three daughters.^9,1,3,10
     Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard. 167.
2. Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-century Colonists 1996, Baltimore, 1st Edition, Faris, David. 109.
3. Plantagenet Ancestry of seventeenth-century Colonists 1999, 2nd Edition, Faris, David. 328.⁴

; Elizabeth Hastings[14],[7]
----------------------------------------

'Elsabeth wyff to Sir Robert Hyllyard'[HSP 16:154-156, Vis. of
Yorkshire: pedigree of Hastynges[7]]

reference to her being married to Robert Hildyard in will of
father-in-law Sir Robert Hildyard, 13 March 1485/86: reference
to sums in hands of her brother Hugh Hastings, willed to her
husband for use as marriage gifts [maritagia] for his/their
daughters:
' Roberto Hillyard, filio meo, xx li., quae sunt in manibus
Hugonis Hastynges militis, mihi debitas, ad maritagium filiarum
suarum...' [Testa. Eboracensia 53:11-13[15]]

Genealogics # I00135231[16]

Spouse: Sir Robert Hildyard of Winestead, co. Yorks. [17],[7]
Death: 21 May 1501[3]
Father: Robert Hildyard (-<1489)
Mother: Katherine de la Hay (-<1485)

Children: Peter Hildyard, of Winestead(-1501)
Katherine, m. William Girlington (-<1540)
Robert
Margery
Thomas
John
William
Adam
Edward
Hugh
Ralph
Stephen (->1535)
Anne
Henry
Denise


Ravilious cites:
7. "The Visitation of Yorkshire," Harleian Soc., William Flower, Esquire, Norroy King of Arms, Harleian Series, Vol. 16, Mitchell and Hughes, Printers, London, 1881, pp. 154-156: pedigree of Hastings of Elsing ('Hastynges..' of Fenwick, co. Yorks.), 'The Visitation of Yorkshire in the Years 1563 and 1564'.
10. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
14. "Visitations of the North, Part III," Publications of the Surtees Society,Vol. CXLIV, Northumberland Press Ltd., Newcastle, 1930, 78 et seq.
15. "Testamenta Eboracensia [Selection of Wills, Reg. at York]," The Surtees Society, Andrews & Co., Durham (J. B. Nichols & Sons, London), Vol. IV, Pt. I: 1869
17. George Poulson, Esq., "The History and Antiquities of the Seigniory of Holderness," Hull: Thomas Topping, and W. Pickering, 1840 (Vol I) 1841 (Vol II), pp. 197-198, pedigree of Hilton of Swine.⁶

.¹¹

     Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire was born circa 1435.^7,4 He married Elizabeth Hastings, daughter of John Hastings Esq., of Elsing, Norfolk, 9th Lord Hastings and Anne Morley, before 1460
; eleven sons and three daughters.^8,2,3,4
Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire died on 21 May 1501; Burke's Peerage says "d 1492"; Faris says "died testate."^1,2,5,4
     Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire lived at Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire, England.⁷

; SIR ROBERT HILDYARD, an important personage in the reigns of HENRY VI and EDWARD IV, was knighted at the coronation of RICHARD III. In 1469, he, with Sir John Conyers, and others, headed an insurrection in the North in favour of the Lancastrians, and defeated the Earl of Pembroke at Edgcote in Oxford, one of the Knights who met HENRY VII in his progress towards York; m Elizabeth, dau of Sir John Hastings, of Fenwick, by his wife Anne, dau of 5th Baron Morley (see BURKE'S Extinct Peerage, 1883 edn, p. 382), and d 1492.²

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. Q 112246.
2. The Genealogist [of London] new series . 30:111.
3. Acclom of Moreby, The Visitation of Yorkshire 1584/5 by Robert Glover, printed 1875, Foster, Joseph. 51.
4. Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry, London, 1939. 1112.
5. The American Genealogist . 69:131-2.⁴

.⁹ Sir Robert Hildyard Knt., of Winestead, East Riding, Yorkshire was also known as Sir Robert Hilliard Knt.¹⁰ He was knighted on the field of Selford by the Earl of Northumberland on 22 August 1482.

     Mary de Brewes married Sir Ralph de Cobham Lord Cobham of Norfolk, son of Sir John de Cobham and Joan de Septvans,
; her 1st husband.^2,3,1 Mary de Brewes married Thomas (?) of Brotherton, Knt., Earl of Norfolk, son of Edward I "Longshanks" (?) King of England and Marguerite (?) de France, Queen of England, before 1 January 1337
; his 2nd wife.^2,4,1
Mary de Brewes died on 11 June 1362; died testate.^4,3
      .⁵ Mary de Brewes was also known as Mary de Braose.^4,3

     Sir Ralph de Cobham Lord Cobham of Norfolk married Mary de Brewes, daughter of Sir Peter de Brewes Knt., of Tetbury, Gloucestershire and Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford,
; her 1st husband.^4,3,5
Sir Ralph de Cobham Lord Cobham of Norfolk died between 5 February 1325 and 1326.^6,5,3
      ; see Cobham of Norfolk.⁷ Sir Ralph de Cobham Lord Cobham of Norfolk was also known as Sir Ralph de Cobham 1st Lord Cobham.² He was 1st Lord Cobham of Norfolk on 30 December 1324.^6,1

     Sir Peter de Brewes Knt., of Tetbury, Gloucestershire married Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford, daughter of Sir Roger de Clifford of Tenbury and NN (?) Countess de Lauretania,
; her 2nd husband.^3,4,1
     Sir Peter de Brewes Knt., of Tetbury, Gloucestershire lived at Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England.³

; Leo van de Pas cites: The Mapledurham Connection, tracing the first wife of Roger Clifford 1221-1285, The Genealogists Magazine, September 1990, Clifford, David J. H.⁵ Sir Peter de Brewes Knt., of Tetbury, Gloucestershire was also known as Sir Peter de Braose.^6,7,5

.³

     Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford married Sir Peter de Brewes Knt., of Tetbury, Gloucestershire, son of William V de Braiose Lord Braose of Bramber and Gower and Mary de Ros,
; her 2nd husband.^3,2,4 Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford married Henry Hussey
; her 1st husband.⁵ Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford was born circa 1275.²
Agnes (Alys, Annys) de Clifford died in 1338.²
      .³

     Edward (?) of Norfolk was born circa 1319.^3,5,1 He married Beatrice de Mortimer, daughter of Sir Roger de Mortimer Knt., 8th Baron Mortimer, 1st Earl of March and Joan de Joinville, between May 1328 and June 1328.^6,1,2

Edward (?) of Norfolk died before 9 August 1334; died testate.^6,2
      ; Faris (1999, pp. 255-256): "EDWARD OF NORFOLK [of Brotherton], son and heir-apparent, born about 1319, died before 2 Dec. 1334 v.p. s.p; married May or June 1328 BEATRICE DE MORTIMER, died 16 Oct. 1383, daughter of Roger de Mortimer, 1st Earl of March, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Peter de Geneville, Lord of Trim. She married, second, THOMAS DE BREWSE, of Tetbury."

     Beatrice de Mortimer married Edward (?) of Norfolk, son of Thomas (?) of Brotherton, Knt., Earl of Norfolk and Alice de Hales, between May 1328 and June 1328.^7,1,2
Beatrice de Mortimer married Sir Thomas de Brewes Knt., Lorde Brewes, of Tetbury, Gloucestershire, ec. after 9 August 1334
; her 2nd husband.²
Beatrice de Mortimer died on 16 October 1383.¹
      .⁷

     Jean Barclay married Sir David Fleming of Biggar and Cumbernauld.^1,4

     Alice (?) of Norfolk was born circa 1324; Richardson says "minor in 1344."^1,2 She and William de Montagu KG, 4th Lord Montagu, 2nd Earl of Salisbury were engaged on 4 February 1333; date of contract. Later voided.² Alice (?) of Norfolk married Edward de Montagu 1st Baron Montagu, son of William de Montagu 2nd Lord Montagu and Elizabeth de Montfort, on 29 August 1338.^1,4,5,2

Alice (?) of Norfolk died between 14 November 1351 and 20 January 1352 at Bungay, co. Suffolk, England; died of an assault committed by her husband.^6,1,2
      ; Though the Yale English Monarch series has yet to publish a definitive biography of Edward III, there is a very readable 1982 book "King Edward III" by Michael Packe.

Packe deconstructs in great detail 14th century French chronicler Jean LeBel's account of Edward III's rape of the Countess of Salisbury, and utilizes PRO documents and other records to demonstrate that the incident probably did indeed occur, but that the victim was actually the King's young cousin Alice of Brotherton, wife of Sir Edward de Montagu. He provides many details of Alice's life, and a question about her birthdate arose while I read.

"Alice was born early in 1324. [footnote: She was found to be 'under age' at Easter 1344 ('Year Books, Edward III', XVIII, p.4). In March 1345 Edward Montagu was excused f50 due to the king on her inheritance, apparently on her coming of age (G.E. Cockayne, 'Complete Peerage').] In February 1333 her father, Brotherton, betrothed her to William Montagu junior, [footnote: 'Cal. Patent Rolls 1330-4', p.402.] then aged five, but the marriage did not take place, perhaps because she was considered to be too much the older. Instead, William Montagu was married, in 1341, to her younger cousin, Joan of Kent, as has been said: while Alice, for her part, was married to William's uncle Edward Montagu, some twenty years her senior, probably about March 1337, when he was knighted and granted an exchequer allowance of f100 a year, at the same time that his elder brother became earl of Salisbury."

It is clear from his deduced birthdate for her that historian Packe assumed that Alice became 'of age' at 21 years. Though that was the case for male heirs, it was not for female heiresses. If Alice came of age between Easter 1344 and March 1345, would she have had to turn 14 or turn 16? I do get confused as she was married to Montagu before her father Thomas of Brotherton died. So, if she turned 14-16 in early 1345, her birth would between early 1329 and early 1331, making her actually younger than her first cousin Joan of Kent.

But then we run into difficulty with her marriage chronology. She was initially contracted to marry 5-year-old William Montagu junior in 1333 when she was aged 2-4, so it's not surprising to find her married to Edward Montagu in 1337, aged 6-8.

Packe continues: "In December [1338] Edward Montagu, who was at that time with the king at Antwerp, stood as proxy for Alice to receive her share of her father's estates in England, and early in 1340, at Ghent, did 'homage for all the lands which he and Alice held in chief of her inheritance by reason of their common offspring'. [footnote: 'Cal. Close Rolls 1349-54, p.411.]"

What cannot be reconciled is having Alice as a mother in 1340 at age 9-11! How can she be a mother in 1340 and still considered 'under age' in Easter 1344? Something's not right. Maybe Packe's chronology is correct and 'under age' was a general term for anyone, female or male, under age 21?

Any other ideas to clear up the confusion would be much appreciated.

Cheers, ----Brad.⁷


.⁶

     Edward de Montagu 1st Baron Montagu was born circa 1304.³ He married Alice (?) of Norfolk, daughter of Thomas (?) of Brotherton, Knt., Earl of Norfolk and Alice de Hales, on 29 August 1338.^3,4,1,2
Edward de Montagu 1st Baron Montagu married Joan (?) after 1352
; his 2nd wife.²
Edward de Montagu 1st Baron Montagu died on 14 July 1361.^3,2
      ; van de Pas cites: 1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 310
2. Burke's Guide to the Royal family, London, 1973, Reference: 198
3. Cahiers de Saint Louis, Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques, Reference: 960.¹ He was 1st Lord Montagu.⁴

.⁴

     Sir Stephen de Segrave Knt., 3rd Lord Segrave married Alice de Arundel, daughter of Sir Richard Fitz Alan Knt., 8th/1st Earl of Arundel and Alasia/Alice (?) di Saluzzo.^5,1
Sir Stephen de Segrave Knt., 3rd Lord Segrave was born circa 1285; Richardson says "aged 40 in 1325."¹
Sir Stephen de Segrave Knt., 3rd Lord Segrave died on 12 December 1325 at Aquitaine, France (now).^2,1
Sir Stephen de Segrave Knt., 3rd Lord Segrave was buried after 12 December 1325 at Chacombe Priory, Chacombe, Northamptonshire, England.¹
     EDV-19 GKJ-19.

; STEPHEN de SEGRAVE, 3rd Lord (Baron) Segrave; had ceased to be a minor by time of his f's death; undertook mil service against Scots 1305, 1307 and 1322; ktd by autumn 1307; Constable Tower London Feb 1322/3; m Alice, allegedly dau of - Arundell and d by 12 Dec 1325.²

Sir Stephen de Segrave Knt., 3rd Lord Segrave lived at West Hatch, Wiltshire, England.¹

.⁵ He was 3rd Lord (Baron) Segrave.^5,2