Joan Fitz John1,2,3

F, #4621, b. circa 1245, d. circa 26 May 1303
FatherSir John Fitz Geoffrey3 b. c 1215, d. 23 Nov 1258
MotherIsabel (Isabella) le Bigod b. 1210
ReferenceEDV21
Last Edited15 Aug 2019
     Joan Fitz John was born circa 1245. She married Theobald IV le Boteler, son of Theobald III le Boteler and Margery de Burgh, circa 1268.1,2,3
Joan Fitz John died circa 26 May 1303.4
     EDV-21 GKJ-22.

; Weis AR 73-30.

;

Weis AR.5,6

Family

Theobald IV le Boteler b. c 1242, d. 26 Sep 1285
Children

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 88, Fitz GEOFFREY 3:vi. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Dynboyne Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  3. [S2212] Emmett L. Butler, "Butler email 6 Jan 2008: "Botelers of Ireland: the First Generations, Part II"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 6 Jan 2008. Hereinafter cited as "Butler email 6 Jan 2008."
  4. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 88, Fitz GEOFFREY 3:v.
  5. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  6. [S677] Jr. Christos Christou, GEDCOM file imported on 12 Feb 1999. Supplied by Christos Christou, Jr. - e-mail address (n.p.: Christos Christou, Jr.
    303 Nicholson Road
    Baltimore, MD 21221-6609
    Email: e-mail address, 1999).

Rohese de Monmouth

F, #4622, b. between 1135 and 1140
FatherBaderon de Monmouth1,2 b. c 1100, d. 1176
MotherRohese de Clare3 b. 1110
ReferenceGAV23 EDV23
Last Edited9 Dec 2020
     Rohese de Monmouth married Hugh de Lacy, son of Gilbert de Lacy and Agnes (?).4,5 Rohese de Monmouth was born between 1135 and 1140.6
     GAV-23 EDV-23 GKJ-24.

Family

Hugh de Lacy b. c 1130, d. bt 25 Jul 1185 - 1186
Children

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Braderon de Monmouth: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395227&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 9 December 2020), memorial page for Baderon FitzWilliam (1100–1176), Find a Grave Memorial no. 178570082, citing Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales; Maintained by Memerizion (contributor 48072664), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178570082. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rohese de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395228&tree=LEO
  4. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 118-119, de LACY 7. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugh de Lacy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00174520&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rose|Rohese de Monmouth: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00174521&tree=LEO
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugh de Lacy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106765&tree=LEO
  8. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:ii.
  9. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:iii.
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:v.
  11. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:vi.
  12. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:vii.

Mathilde von Vohburg1

F, #4623
FatherDietpold/Diepold I (?) Count im oberen Trangau1,2 d. a 18 May 1060
Last Edited6 Jul 2020
     Mathilde von Vohburg married Friedrich I von Tengling Graf von Tengling.3
     Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 16:78.1

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Mathilde von Vohburg: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00619349&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BAVARIAN%20NOBILITY.htm#DiepoldIdied1060A. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Friedrich I: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00619348&tree=LEO

Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster1

M, #4624, b. 1060, d. 1120
FatherToirdelbach Ua Briain (?) King of Munster and High King of Ireland2,3,4 b. 1009, d. 1086
MotherDubchoblaig (?) of the Ui Cheinnselaig3,5
ReferenceEDV27
Last Edited25 Oct 2020
     Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster married Sahl MacCarty, daughter of Teige MacCarthy;
Her 1st husband.6,3,7 Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster was born in 1060.1
Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster was buried in 1120 at St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, co. Clare, Ireland,

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     unknown
     DEATH     1120, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland
     Dermot, son of Turlogh Mór; in 1116 succeeded his brother, Murtogh, as King of Munster. He married Sadhbh, daughter of Teige MacCarthy Mór, King of Desmond, by whom he had issue—two sons, 1. Conor-na-Catharach, and 2. Turlogh. The Princess Sadhbh, on the death of Dermot, married her cousin Cormac Magh-Tamnagh MacCarthy Mór. Dermod, in 1116, was defeated by the O'Niall and their Connacht relatives at Ruadh-Bheithach, near Dunkellin, Co. Galway. He died in A.D. 1120, was interred in Killaloe, and was succeeded by his son Conor, who, dying in 1142, was succeeded by his brother, Turloch.
     Family Members
     Parents
          Turlogh Mor O'Brien 1009–1086
     Siblings
          Murtogh O'Brien unknown–1119
     Children
          Turlogh O'Brien unknown–1167
     BURIAL     St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland
     Created by: Dermot P. Curtin
     Added: 30 Nov 2016
     Find a Grave Memorial 173335700.8,9
Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster died in 1120 at Corcach Mór Muman, Ireland; Genealogics says d. 1120; Med Lands says d. 1118.9,3
     ; This is the same person as ”Diarmait Ua Briain” at Wikipedia.1 He was King of Munster.6 EDV-27.

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.3
Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster was also known as Dermot O'Brien King of Munster. Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster was also known as Diarmait O'Brien King of Munster.9

; NB: In the 1980's, I inherited an anglicized Irish line from an old World Family Tree (WFT 14-1829) pedigree that I found in the early days of CDs (when I was far less demanding in my genealogical research). From WFT I had:
1 Dermot O'Brien (unk-1120), King of Muster, m. Sahl MacCarty
1.1 Turlock O'Brien (unk-1167), "of Munster", m. Raignait O'Fogurty
1.1.1 Donal Mor O'Brien (unk-1194), m. Urlachan MacMurrough
1.1.1.1 "More" O'Brien (1162-unk), m. William de Burgh (unk-1205)
I am now trying to better understand and clean up this line. In researching for the possible "truth" in this line, I have found several leads:


A. Med Lands, shows a descent under the Kings of Munster that could be this "Dermot", his son "Turlock" and grandson "Donal". The line descends from one TOIRDELBACH, son of DOMNALL of Munster & his wife --- ([1008/09]-Cenn Coradh 14 Jul 1086), as folows:
A.1. TOIRDELBACH, King of Munster, a grandson of Brian Boroma - O'Brien?
A.1.1 DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118), King of Munster - Dermot?
A.1.1.1 TOIRDELBACH (-1167), King of Munster - Turlock?
A.1.1.1.1 DOMNALL (-1194), King of Munster [sic] - Donal?
Though the female name "Mor" is common in this line, Domnall is not shown as having any offspring, including a daughter named MOR ("More") who might have married William de Burgh. Med Lands provide sources, relying heavily on the Annals of Inisfallen, the Annals of Ulster, and the Annals of Tigernach.


B. Wikipedia provides more direct evidence for the veracity of the WFT line, relying on more modern sources:
B.1 Toirdelbach Ua Briain (1009 – 14 July 1086), King of Munster, grandson of Brian Bóruma, m1 Dubchoblaig (mother of Diarmait), m2 Derbforgaill, m3 Ruaidrí na Saide Buide.
B.1.1 Diarmait Ua Briain (1060–1118), King of Munster, m Mór Ua Conchobair
B.1.1.1 Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (unk-unk), King of Munster, m1 (a dau. of the Mac Carthaigh Mór, d.s.p.), m2 Sadb MacGillapatrick
B.1.1.1.1 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (unk-1194), King of Thomond and claimant to King of Munster, m Orlacan (dau. of Diarmait Mac Murchada) and had a daughter "Mór O'Brien (Princess of Thomond, 1172-1216, who married William de Burgh)"


C. The Wikipedia entry for William de Burgy states: "William's wife was the daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, King of Thomond, whom he married in 1193.[5] A late medieval (A.D. 1397 - A.D. 1418) genealogy found in the Book of Lecan records his marriage to an unnamed daughter of Donmal Mor mac Turlough O'Brien,[6]. This Wikipedia article cites:
[5] Weis, Frederick Lewis. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700. Eighth Ed. (2008), Line 177B-8.
[6] Empey, C. A (2004). "Burgh, William de (died 1206)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 2006-11-04.



D. Weis [2008:168], calls Richard de Burgh "son of William de Burgh ... by his wife, a daughter of Donnell O'Brien, K.T."


E. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ONDB) article on William de Burgh does indeed report: "According to one Irish source de Burgh was married to a daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, which is consistent with the fact that he was frequently accompanied by his Ó Briain allies, hereditary enemies of the Mac Carthaig and the Ó Conchobhair, in his numerous campaigns in Desmond and Connacht." However, then ONDB adds this caveat: "Although he was married in or before 1193, there is no certainty about the identity of his wife. She may have been an unnamed daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, but the authority for this statement rests solely on the evidence of a late medieval Gaelic genealogy."


F. Genealogics shows the following descent:
F.1 Torlogh O'Brien, King of Munster and Ireland (1009-1086) m Dubchoblaig of the Ui Cheinnselaig
F1.1 Dermod O'Brien, King of Munster (unk-1120) m Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy)
F1.1.1 Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1167)
F1.1.1.1 Donald More O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1194) - No daughter is shown for Donald
For this descent, Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H. 144.
     Genealogics, however, reports on his page that William de Burgh m. "Isabel 'filia regis'" and then remarks, "It is suggested that she is the daughter of Richard 'the Lionheart'."
Genealogics cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.


G. The History of the O'Briens, by Donough O'Brien (1949) has this simplified descent from "Brian Boroimhe" to "Donald More" (d. 1194):
G.0 Brian Boroimhe (unk-1014)
G.0.1 Teige (unk-1023)
G.0.1.1 Donough (unk-1054)
G.1. Torlogh (unk-1086)
G.1.1 Dermod (unk-1120)
G.1.1.1 Torlogh (unk-1167)
G.1.1.1.1 Donald More 1194)
See the attached image of the descendancy from the frontispiece of O'Brien [1949].


Conclusion: Based on these sources, I believe that the WFT pedigree I orignally had, matches the lineage as laid out by Genealogics, Wikipedia and O'Brien [1949]. I have left the marriage of "More" to William de Burgh, given the argument in ONDB. GA Vaut.4,6,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20

; Per Med Lands:
     "DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118). The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain brought a fleet to Wales and took great spoil therefrom” in 1080[1083]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that, on the death of Toirdelbach in 1086, Munster "was divided in three between [his] three sons…Tadc, Muirchertach and Diarmait”, but adding that Diarmait “was banished from Mumu” in 1086 after the death of his brother Tadhg, when his brother Muirchertach “took the kingship”[1084]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain was banished to Ulaid” in 1092[1085]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmait Húa Bríáin” seized the kingdom of Munster in 1114 when “Muirchertach Húa Bríáin” fell ill[1086]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain took the kingship of Mumu and banished Muirchertach from Luimnech to Cell Da Lua” in 1114, but in a later passage records that “Muirchertach came to Luimnech and Diarmait was imprisoned by him” in 1115[1087]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain turned against Muirchertach Ua Briain” in 1116 and that “Muirchertach Ua Briain went to Les Mór and assumed the pilgrim´s staff”[1088]. King of Munster 1116. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmuit Húa Bríáin king of the southern half of Ireland [Lethe Mogha]” died in 1118[1089]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain died in Corcach Mór Muman” in 1118[1090].
     "m ---. The name of Diarmait´s wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[1083] Annals of Inisfallen, 1080.4, p. 237.
[1084] Annals of Inisfallen, 1086.5 and 1086.7, p. 239.
[1085] Annals of Inisfallen, 1092.3, p. 243.
[1086] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 337.
[1087] Annals of Inisfallen, 1114.4 and 1115.2, p. 273.
[1088] Annals of Inisfallen, 1116.3 and 1116.5, p. 275.
[1089] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 342.
[1090] Annals of Inisfallen, 1118.2, p. 277.9
He was King of Munster
From Wikipedia:
Name:     Toirdhealbhach Ua Briain
Reign:     1068-1086
Born:     1009 - Son of Tadc mac Briain and Mór
Marriages:     (1) Dubchoblaig - One son; (2) Derbforgaill - Two sons
Death:     1086
.
See attached map of Ireland ca 1014 (from Wikipedia: Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=12835052) between 1114 and 1118.1,21,22

Citations

  1. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Torlogh O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117053&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Dermod O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117056&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Tordelbachdied1086. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Dubchoblaig of the Ui Cheinnselaig: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00647146&tree=LEO
  6. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy): https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00722000&tree=LEO
  8. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 05 July 2020), memorial page for Dermot O'Brien (unknown–1120), Find a Grave Memorial no. 173335700, citing St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland; Maintained by Dermot P. Curtin (contributor 48964466), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/173335700. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Muirchertachdied1119
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdelbach Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdelbach_Ua_Briain
  11. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Diarmait Ua Briain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Ua_Briain
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Domnall Mór Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  14. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, William de Burgh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Burgh
  15. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), p. 168, Line 177B-8. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  16. [S2286] Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, online http://oxforddnb.com/index/, https://doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/4000. Hereinafter cited as ODNB - Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  18. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO
  19. [S4776] Donough O'Brien, The History of the O'Briens from Brian Boroimhe . AD 1000 to AD 1945 (London and New York: Batsford, 1949). Hereinafter cited as O'Brien (1949) The History of the O'Briens.
  20. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 5 July 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  21. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, List of Kings of Munster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kings_of_Munster
  22. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnchad_mac_Briain#/media/File:Www.wesleyjohnston.com-users-ireland-maps-historical-map1014.gif
  23. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117057&tree=LEO
  24. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Toirdelbachdiedafter1152

Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond1,2

M, #4625, d. 7 November 1167
FatherDiarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster3,4,2 b. 1060, d. 1120
MotherSahl MacCarty4,5
ReferenceEDV26
Last Edited3 Nov 2020
     Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond married NN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic;
His 2nd wife.6,1 Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond married NN Mac Carthy of Desmond, daughter of Cormac Magh-tamnagh Mac Carthy Bishop King of Cashel, King of Desmond;
His 1st wife.7,2,1
Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond died on 7 November 1167 at Ireland.6,8,4,2
Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond was buried after 7 November 1167 at St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, co. Clare, Ireland,

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     unknown
     DEATH     7 Nov 1167, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland
     Turlogh: son of Dermod; became King of Munster in 1142. He married twice—first, to a daughter of MacCarthy Mór, and secondly, to Narait or Ragnait, the daughter of O'Fogarty, Lord of Ely-Deisceart in Tipperary, by whom he had five sons: —1. Donal Mór; 2. Murtogh, who d. s. p; 3. Brian of the Mountain, Lord of Ormond. 4. Dermod; 5. Consaidin Saidh, Bishop of Killaloe, ancestor of the MacConsidine of the co. Clare.
     Teige, uncle of Turlogh, contended with him for the sovereignty of Munster, and a bloody battle was fought at Cluan-na-Catha, near Ardfinan, in Tipperary, in which Teige was defeated. In the year after, another terrible battle was also fought between Turlogh and Teige and his allies, at Barrymore in Cork, in which Teige was again defeated; upwards of seven thousand fell on both sides, A.D. 1152. Turlogh, after a reign of 25 years, died and was interred at Killaloe, 7th Nov., 1167, leaving his son Murtogh King of Munster, who was slain in 1168, by the people of Clare, at the instigation of Conor O'Brien; for which his brother Donal, on his accession, fined them 3,000 cows.
     Family Members
     Parents
          Dermot O'Brien unknown–1120
     Children
          Domnall O'Brien 1142–1194
     BURIAL     St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland
     Created by: Dermot P. Curtin
     Added: 30 Nov 2016
     Find a Grave Memorial 173335414.8
     ; NB: In the 1980's, I inherited an anglicized Irish line from an old World Family Tree (WFT 14-1829) pedigree that I found in the early days of CDs (when I was far less demanding in my genealogical research). From WFT I had:
1 Dermot O'Brien (unk-1120), King of Muster, m. Sahl MacCarty
1.1 Turlock O'Brien (unk-1167), "of Munster", m. Raignait O'Fogurty
1.1.1 Donal Mor O'Brien (unk-1194), m. Urlachan MacMurrough
1.1.1.1 "More" O'Brien (1162-unk), m. William de Burgh (unk-1205)
I am now trying to better understand and clean up this line. In researching for the possible "truth" in this line, I have found several leads:


A. Med Lands, shows a descent under the Kings of Munster that could be this "Dermot", his son "Turlock" and grandson "Donal". The line descends from one TOIRDELBACH, son of DOMNALL of Munster & his wife --- ([1008/09]-Cenn Coradh 14 Jul 1086), as folows:
A.1. TOIRDELBACH, King of Munster, a grandson of Brian Boroma - O'Brien?
A.1.1 DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118), King of Munster - Dermot?
A.1.1.1 TOIRDELBACH (-1167), King of Munster - Turlock?
A.1.1.1.1 DOMNALL (-1194), King of Munster [sic] - Donal?
Though the female name "Mor" is common in this line, Domnall is not shown as having any offspring, including a daughter named MOR ("More") who might have married William de Burgh. Med Lands provide sources, relying heavily on the Annals of Inisfallen, the Annals of Ulster, and the Annals of Tigernach.


B. Wikipedia provides more direct evidence for the veracity of the WFT line, relying on more modern sources:
B.1 Toirdelbach Ua Briain (1009 – 14 July 1086), King of Munster, grandson of Brian Bóruma, m1 Dubchoblaig (mother of Diarmait), m2 Derbforgaill, m3 Ruaidrí na Saide Buide.
B.1.1 Diarmait Ua Briain (1060–1118), King of Munster, m Mór Ua Conchobair
B.1.1.1 Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (unk-unk), King of Munster, m1 (a dau. of the Mac Carthaigh Mór, d.s.p.), m2 Sadb MacGillapatrick
B.1.1.1.1 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (unk-1194), King of Thomond and claimant to King of Munster, m Orlacan (dau. of Diarmait Mac Murchada) and had a daughter "Mór O'Brien (Princess of Thomond, 1172-1216, who married William de Burgh)"


C. The Wikipedia entry for William de Burgy states: "William's wife was the daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, King of Thomond, whom he married in 1193.[5] A late medieval (A.D. 1397 - A.D. 1418) genealogy found in the Book of Lecan records his marriage to an unnamed daughter of Donmal Mor mac Turlough O'Brien,[6]. This Wikipedia article cites:
[5] Weis, Frederick Lewis. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700. Eighth Ed. (2008), Line 177B-8.
[6] Empey, C. A (2004). "Burgh, William de (died 1206)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 2006-11-04.



D. Weis [2008:168], calls Richard de Burgh "son of William de Burgh ... by his wife, a daughter of Donnell O'Brien, K.T."


E. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ONDB) article on William de Burgh does indeed report: "According to one Irish source de Burgh was married to a daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, which is consistent with the fact that he was frequently accompanied by his Ó Briain allies, hereditary enemies of the Mac Carthaig and the Ó Conchobhair, in his numerous campaigns in Desmond and Connacht." However, then ONDB adds this caveat: "Although he was married in or before 1193, there is no certainty about the identity of his wife. She may have been an unnamed daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, but the authority for this statement rests solely on the evidence of a late medieval Gaelic genealogy."


F. Genealogics shows the following descent:
F.1 Torlogh O'Brien, King of Munster and Ireland (1009-1086) m Dubchoblaig of the Ui Cheinnselaig
F1.1 Dermod O'Brien, King of Munster (unk-1120) m Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy)
F1.1.1 Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1167)
F1.1.1.1 Donald More O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1194) - No daughter is shown for Donald
For this descent, Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H. 144.
     Genealogics, however, reports on his page that William de Burgh m. "Isabel 'filia regis'" and then remarks, "It is suggested that she is the daughter of Richard 'the Lionheart'."
Genealogics cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.


G. The History of the O'Briens, by Donough O'Brien (1949) has this simplified descent from "Brian Boroimhe" to "Donald More" (d. 1194):
G.0 Brian Boroimhe (unk-1014)
G.0.1 Teige (unk-1023)
G.0.1.1 Donough (unk-1054)
G.1. Torlogh (unk-1086)
G.1.1 Dermod (unk-1120)
G.1.1.1 Torlogh (unk-1167)
G.1.1.1.1 Donald More 1194)
See the attached image of the descendancy from the frontispiece of O'Brien [1949].


Conclusion: Based on these sources, I believe that the WFT pedigree I orignally had, matches the lineage as laid out by Genealogics, Wikipedia and O'Brien [1949]. I have left the marriage of "More" to William de Burgh, given the argument in ONDB. GA Vaut.9,6,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 EDV-26.

; This is the same person as ”Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain” at Wikipedia.1

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.4
Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond was also known as Turlock O'Brien King of Munster, King of Thomond. Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond was also known as Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien King of Munster, King of Thomond.4,2

; Per Med Lands:
     "daughter . Her parentage and marriage are confirmed by the Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) which record that “Cormac son of Maic Carrthaig” was killed in 1138 by “Toirdelbach Húa Bríáin his father-in-law, gossip and fosterer” (corrected to “son-in-law” in a footnote to the edition consulted)[514].
     "m TOIRDELBACH Húa Bríáin King of Munster, son of DIARMAIT King of Munster & his wife ---."
Med Lands cites:
[514] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 371.7
He was King of Thomond
From Wikipedia:
Name:     Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain
Reign:     1142–1167
Birth:     Son of Diarmuid Ó Briain
Marriages::     unknown
Death::     1167
See attached map of the Kingdom of Thomond in the 11th century (from Wikipedia: By self-created - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5573375) between 1142 and 1167.21,22 He was King of Munster
From Wikipedia:
Name:     Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain
Reign:     1142–1167 (claimant)
Birth:     Son of Diarmait Ua Briain
Marriages:     unknown
Death:     1167 between 1142 and 1167.23

Citations

  1. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  2. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Toirdelbachdiedafter1152. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Muirchertachdied1119
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117057&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy): https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00722000&tree=LEO
  6. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#dauCormacMToirdelbachHuaBrian
  8. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 05 July 2020), memorial page for Turlogh O'Brien (unknown–7 Nov 1167), Find a Grave Memorial no. 173335414, citing St. Lua's Churchyard, Killaloe, County Clare, Ireland; Maintained by Dermot P. Curtin (contributor 48964466), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/173335414. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  9. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Tordelbachdied1086
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdelbach Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdelbach_Ua_Briain
  11. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Diarmait Ua Briain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Ua_Briain
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Domnall Mór Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  14. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, William de Burgh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Burgh
  15. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), p. 168, Line 177B-8. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  16. [S2286] Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, online http://oxforddnb.com/index/, https://doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/4000. Hereinafter cited as ODNB - Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  18. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO
  19. [S4776] Donough O'Brien, The History of the O'Briens from Brian Boroimhe . AD 1000 to AD 1945 (London and New York: Batsford, 1949). Hereinafter cited as O'Brien (1949) The History of the O'Briens.
  20. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 5 July 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  21. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_of_Thomond#/media/File:Kingdom_of_Thomond.png
  22. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, List of monarchs of Thomond: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_of_Thomond
  23. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, List of kings of Munster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kings_of_Munster
  24. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Donald More O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  25. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#DonoughThormonddied1194

Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?)1

M, #4626, d. 1194
FatherToirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond2,3,4,5 d. 7 Nov 1167
MotherNN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic6
ReferenceEDV25
Last Edited27 Oct 2020
     Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) married Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster, daughter of Diarmait (Dermot) mac Murchada King of Leinster and Mór ingen Muirchertaig Ua Tuathail (O'Toole).6,4
Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) died in 1194.6,4,3,5
Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) was buried in 1194 at St Mary's Cathedral, Limerick, co. Limerick, Ireland,

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1142
     DEATH     1194 (aged 51–52), Limerick, County Limerick, Ireland
     King of Thomond in Ireland from 1168 to 1194 and a claimant to the title King of Munster. He was also styled King of Limerick, a title belonging to the O'Brien dynasty since Brian Boru's annexation of the Norse city in the 10th century.According to the Annals of Ulster, he was the last king of Munster, dying in 1194. He is buried in the apse of St. Mary's Cathedral, Limerick, a church he first organized. His tomb is covered with a carved sepulcher stone near the church's main altar.
     Married to Orlacan, daughter of Dermot MacMorough, and had Mór, who married Cathal Craobh Dearg O'Connor (d. 1224), the King of Connacht. He also had nine sons: 1. Donogh Cairbreach; 2. Murtogh Dall, ancestor of the Clan Murtogh Dall O'Brien, of Hy-Bloid, in the northeast of the co. Clare; 3. Connor Ruadh; 4. Murtogh Fionn, ancestor of the Clan Turlogh Fionn of the same territory; 6. Donal Conachtach, ancestor of Clan Donal Conaghtaigh, of Echtge, and subsequently of Ara, in the county Tipperary; 7. Brian (surnamed "of Burren"), ancestor of Clan Bhriain Boirnigh; 8. Connor, ancestor of Clan Connor Guasanaigh; 9. Dermod Fiodhnuich, ancestor of the Clan Dermod Fiodhniagh. In 1169, this Donal Mór founded a religious house, afterwards the cathedral church on the site of the existing edifice in Cashel. In 1171, he founded a nunnery in the City of Limerick, but not a vestige of it remains. In 1172, following the example of Dermod MacCarthy Mór, King of South Munster, he made Henry II, King of England, a tender of his submission on the banks of the river Suir.
     In 1175, Donal, blinded Dermod, son of Teige O'Brien, and Mahon, son of Turlogh, his kinsmen, which act caused the death of Dermod soon after at Castleconnell. In 1176, Donal expelled the Anglo-Normans from the City of Limerick, putting most of Henry II's garrison to the sword. In 1192, he drove the English out of Upper Ormond, Ara, and Coonagh, where they established themselves; and stripping them of the booty they took from the native chieftains.
     Family Members
     Parents
          Turlogh O'Brien unknown–1167
     Children
          Conor O'Brien unknown–1203
          Donough Cairbreac O'Brien unknown–1241
     BURIAL     St Mary's Cathedral, Limerick, County Limerick, Ireland
     Created by: Dermot P. Curtin
     Added: 29 Nov 2016
     Find a Grave Memorial 173326512.7
     ; NB: In the 1980's, I inherited an anglicized Irish line from an old World Family Tree (WFT 14-1829) pedigree that I found in the early days of CDs (when I was far less demanding in my genealogical research). From WFT I had:
1 Dermot O'Brien (unk-1120), King of Muster, m. Sahl MacCarty
1.1 Turlock O'Brien (unk-1167), "of Munster", m. Raignait O'Fogurty
1.1.1 Donal Mor O'Brien (unk-1194), m. Urlachan MacMurrough
1.1.1.1 "More" O'Brien (1162-unk), m. William de Burgh (unk-1205)
I am now trying to better understand and clean up this line. In researching for the possible "truth" in this line, I have found several leads:


A. Med Lands, shows a descent under the Kings of Munster that could be this "Dermot", his son "Turlock" and grandson "Donal". The line descends from one TOIRDELBACH, son of DOMNALL of Munster & his wife --- ([1008/09]-Cenn Coradh 14 Jul 1086), as folows:
A.1. TOIRDELBACH, King of Munster, a grandson of Brian Boroma - O'Brien?
A.1.1 DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118), King of Munster - Dermot?
A.1.1.1 TOIRDELBACH (-1167), King of Munster - Turlock?
A.1.1.1.1 DOMNALL (-1194), King of Munster [sic] - Donal?
Though the female name "Mor" is common in this line, Domnall is not shown as having any offspring, including a daughter named MOR ("More") who might have married William de Burgh. Med Lands provide sources, relying heavily on the Annals of Inisfallen, the Annals of Ulster, and the Annals of Tigernach.


B. Wikipedia provides more direct evidence for the veracity of the WFT line, relying on more modern sources:
B.1 Toirdelbach Ua Briain (1009 – 14 July 1086), King of Munster, grandson of Brian Bóruma, m1 Dubchoblaig (mother of Diarmait), m2 Derbforgaill, m3 Ruaidrí na Saide Buide.
B.1.1 Diarmait Ua Briain (1060–1118), King of Munster, m Mór Ua Conchobair
B.1.1.1 Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (unk-unk), King of Munster, m1 (a dau. of the Mac Carthaigh Mór, d.s.p.), m2 Sadb MacGillapatrick
B.1.1.1.1 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (unk-1194), King of Thomond and claimant to King of Munster, m Orlacan (dau. of Diarmait Mac Murchada) and had a daughter "Mór O'Brien (Princess of Thomond, 1172-1216, who married William de Burgh)"


C. The Wikipedia entry for William de Burgy states: "William's wife was the daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, King of Thomond, whom he married in 1193.[5] A late medieval (A.D. 1397 - A.D. 1418) genealogy found in the Book of Lecan records his marriage to an unnamed daughter of Donmal Mor mac Turlough O'Brien,[6]. This Wikipedia article cites:
[5] Weis, Frederick Lewis. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700. Eighth Ed. (2008), Line 177B-8.
[6] Empey, C. A (2004). "Burgh, William de (died 1206)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 2006-11-04.



D. Weis [2008:168], calls Richard de Burgh "son of William de Burgh ... by his wife, a daughter of Donnell O'Brien, K.T."


E. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ONDB) article on William de Burgh does indeed report: "According to one Irish source de Burgh was married to a daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, which is consistent with the fact that he was frequently accompanied by his Ó Briain allies, hereditary enemies of the Mac Carthaig and the Ó Conchobhair, in his numerous campaigns in Desmond and Connacht." However, then ONDB adds this caveat: "Although he was married in or before 1193, there is no certainty about the identity of his wife. She may have been an unnamed daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, but the authority for this statement rests solely on the evidence of a late medieval Gaelic genealogy."


F. Genealogics shows the following descent:
F.1 Torlogh O'Brien, King of Munster and Ireland (1009-1086) m Dubchoblaig of the Ui Cheinnselaig
F1.1 Dermod O'Brien, King of Munster (unk-1120) m Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy)
F1.1.1 Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1167)
F1.1.1.1 Donald More O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1194) - No daughter is shown for Donald
For this descent, Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H. 144.
     Genealogics, however, reports on his page that William de Burgh m. "Isabel 'filia regis'" and then remarks, "It is suggested that she is the daughter of Richard 'the Lionheart'."
Genealogics cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.


G. The History of the O'Briens, by Donough O'Brien (1949) has this simplified descent from "Brian Boroimhe" to "Donald More" (d. 1194):
G.0 Brian Boroimhe (unk-1014)
G.0.1 Teige (unk-1023)
G.0.1.1 Donough (unk-1054)
G.1. Torlogh (unk-1086)
G.1.1 Dermod (unk-1120)
G.1.1.1 Torlogh (unk-1167)
G.1.1.1.1 Donald More 1194)
See the attached image of the descendancy from the frontispiece of O'Brien [1949].


Conclusion: Based on these sources, I believe that the WFT pedigree I orignally had, matches the lineage as laid out by Genealogics, Wikipedia and O'Brien [1949]. I have left the marriage of "More" to William de Burgh, given the argument in ONDB. GA Vaut.8,6,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) was also known as Donal Mor O'Brien King of Thomond. DV-25.

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.4


; This is the same person as ”Domnall Mór Ua Briain” at Wikipedia.1

; Per Med Lands:
     "DOMNALL (-1194). The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Brian son of Toirdelbach was taken prisoner by Domnall son of Toirdelbach” in 1168 and that “the kingship of Dál-Cais was seized by him”[1108]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that “Domnall son of Tairdelbach took the kingship of Tuadmumu” in 1168[1109]. [The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Domnall, son of Toirdelbach Húa Bríáin crown prince of Munster” died in 1176[1110]. It is assumed this refers to another son of Toirdelbach, in view of the later recording Domnall´s death in 1194, and that “Domnall” in the entry is an error.] King of Munster. The Annals of Ulster record that "Ua Diarmata Concobar Maenmhaighi…king of Connacht” joined forces with “Domnall Ua Briain king of Munster” to defeat “the Foreigners” in 1188[1111]. The Annals of Ulster record the death in 1194 of "Domnall Ua Briain (son of Toirrdhealbach…king of Munster)”[1112]."
Med Lands cites:
[1108] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 422.
[1109] Annals of Inisfallen, 1168.4, p. 303.
[1110] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 440.
[1111] Annals of Ulster, 1188.6, p. 215.
[1112] Annals of Ulster, 1194.1, p. 221.3


Reference: Weis [1992:153] Line 177B-8.20 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) was also known as Donald More O'Brien King of Thomond.4 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) was also known as Domnall O'Brien King of Thomond.7

; Per Med Lands:
     "DOMNALL (-1194). King of Thomond. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “the kingship of Thomond was taken by Domnall Húa Bríáin” in 1168[1124]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Ruaidri Húa Conchobar” banished “Domnall Húa Bríáin” from Thomond into Ormond in 1175 and “gave the kingship of Thomond to the son of Murchad Húa Bríáin…his own mother´s son”, adding in a later passage that Domnall made peace with Ruaidri in 1176[1125]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that “Tadc Ua Briain´s son and Mathgamain Ua Briain were blinded by Domnall Ua Briain” in 1175[1126].
     "m URLACHAN of Leinster, daughter of DERMOT MacMurrough King of Leinster & his wife [Mor ---]."
Med Lands cites:
[1124] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 422.
[1125] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, pp. 439 and 440.
[1126] Annals of Inisfallen, 1175.3, p. 307.5


; Per Med Lands:
     "ii) URLACHAN . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m DONOUGH [Donald] More King of Thomond, son of TADHG King of Thomond & his wife --- (-1194)."
Med Lands cites.21
He was King of Thomond, Munster and Limerick between 1168 and 1194.1

Citations

  1. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domnall_M%C3%B3r_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117057&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Toirdelbachdiedafter1152. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Donald More O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#DonoughThormonddied1194
  6. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  7. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 05 July 2020), memorial page for Domnall O'Brien (1142–1194), Find a Grave Memorial no. 173326512, citing St Mary's Cathedral, Limerick, County Limerick, Ireland; Maintained by Dermot P. Curtin (contributor 48964466), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/173326512. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  8. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Tordelbachdied1086
  9. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdelbach Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdelbach_Ua_Briain
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Diarmait Ua Briain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Ua_Briain
  11. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  12. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Domnall Mór Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, William de Burgh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Burgh
  14. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), p. 168, Line 177B-8. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  15. [S2286] Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, online http://oxforddnb.com/index/, https://doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/4000. Hereinafter cited as ODNB - Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO
  18. [S4776] Donough O'Brien, The History of the O'Briens from Brian Boroimhe . AD 1000 to AD 1945 (London and New York: Batsford, 1949). Hereinafter cited as O'Brien (1949) The History of the O'Briens.
  19. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 5 July 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  20. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177B-8, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  21. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#UrlachanLeinsterMDonaldThormond
  22. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Donough Cairbreach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117060&tree=LEO

Hugh de Lacy1,2

M, #4627, b. circa 1130, d. between 25 July 1185 and 1186
FatherGilbert de Lacy3,2 b. b 1133, d. b 1163
MotherAgnes (?)3
ReferenceGAV23 EDV23
Last Edited28 Jun 2006
     Hugh de Lacy married Rohese de Monmouth, daughter of Baderon de Monmouth and Rohese de Clare.1,2 Hugh de Lacy married Rose O'Connor, daughter of Rory O'Connor Last king of Connaught.1 Hugh de Lacy was born circa 1130.2
Hugh de Lacy was buried circa 1185 at St. Thomas's, Dublin, Ireland.1


Hugh de Lacy died between 25 July 1185 and 1186; assassinated at Durrow 25 July 1185 or 1186 havind had his head cut off by an Irishman he was showinghow to use a pick.1
     GAV-23 EDV-23 GKJ-24.

; per van de Pas: [quote] King Henry II employed Hugh in the conquest of ireland and for his services he was given the county of Meath. Subsequently he was appointed Governor of Dublin and Justice of ireland. However when he married the king of Connaught's daughter without Henry's license he was divested of his governorship. About four years later Malvo Miadaich murdered him in revenge for the severity with which he had treated the workmen employed by him in erecting the castle of Lurhedy. [end quote]2

; Weis AR 177b-7.4

; van de Pas cites: 1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 310
2. Europaische Stammtafeln, J. A. Stargdt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III 709.2

Family 1

Rose O'Connor
Children

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 118-119, de LACY 7. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugh de Lacy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00174520&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 118, de LACY 6.
  4. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177B-7, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  5. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:vi: "married daughter of either King of Connaught or of Llywelyn, Prince of Wales."
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:ix.
  7. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:x.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugh de Lacy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106765&tree=LEO
  9. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:ii.
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:iii.
  11. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:v.
  12. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:vi.
  13. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, pp. 118-119, de LACY 7:vii.

Baderon de Monmouth1,2,3

M, #4628, b. circa 1100, d. 1176
FatherWilliam Fitz Baderon4 b. c 1060
MotherHawise (?)5 b. c 1070
ReferenceGAV24 EDV23
Last Edited13 Dec 2020
     Baderon de Monmouth married Rohese de Clare, daughter of Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge and Adeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont.6,7,3,8 Baderon de Monmouth was born circa 1100 at Monmouthshire, Wales, England (now).3,8
Baderon de Monmouth was buried in 1176 at Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales, England (now),

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1100, Monmouthshire, Wales
     DEATH     1176 (aged 75–76), Monmouthshire, Wales
     Baderon succeeded his father, William fitzBaderon, as lord of Monmouth in about 1125, when his father either died or retired to become a monk. Baderon confirmed the possessions of the Priory at Monmouth granted by his predecessors, and extended them. He was a contemporary and possible kinsman of Geoffrey of Monmouth, who was born in the same town at around the same date. Baderon died in 1176. He was succeeded as lord of Monmouth by his son Gilbert, who was in turn succeeded by his own son, John of Monmouth, in 1190.
     Family Members
     Parents
          William FitzBaderon 1060 – unknown
          Hawise FitzBaderon
     Spouse
          Rohese de Clare 1110 – unknown
     Children
          Gilbert FitzBaderon unknown–1189
          Rohese De Monmouth De Lacy 1145–1180
     BURIAL     Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
     Created by: Memerizion
     Added: 19 Apr 2017
     Find a Grave Memorial 178570082.3
Baderon de Monmouth died in 1176 at Monmouthshire, Wales, England (now).3,8
     ; Per Genealogics:
     “Baderon was born about 1100, the son of William fitzBaderon and his wife Hawise. He succeeded his father as lord of Monmouth in about 1124, when his father either died or retired to become a monk. Baderon confirmed the possessions of the priory at Monmouth granted by his predecessors, and extended them. His sister Margaret, whose son Robert became prior of Monmouth, and whose second husband, Hugh fitzRichard, was a landowner in Worcestershire, made further grants of land to the priory. Baderon also became responsible for Goodrich Castle, which he is believed to have developed and extended.
     “At some point after 1130 Baderon married Rohese de Clare, the daughter of Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge, lord of Clare, Tonbridge and Cardigan, and Adelize de Clermont, and the sister of Gilbert de Clare, who was the lord of Striguil (or Chepstow) and later became earl of Pembroke. The marriage took place at Chepstow, and brought together the families of the two neighbouring and sometimes rival lordships. Baderon and Rohese had two sons, James and Gilbert, and at least one daughter Rohese of Monmouth, who married Hugh de Lacy, lord of Meath, before 1155.
     “Baderon was a contemporary and possibly kinsman of the priest and chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth, who was born in the same town at around the same date. Baderon died in 1176. He was succeeded as lord of Monmouth by his son Gilbert, who was in turn succeeded by his own son, John of Monmouth, in 1190.”.8

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III/1 156.8 Baderon de Monmouth was also known as Baderon Fitz William.3 GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-25.

Family 1

Child

Family 2

Rohese de Clare b. 1110
Child

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 155, de MONMOUTH 1. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Braderon de Monmouth: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395227&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 9 December 2020), memorial page for Baderon FitzWilliam (1100–1176), Find a Grave Memorial no. 178570082, citing Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales; Maintained by Memerizion (contributor 48072664), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178570082. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William fitzBaderon: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00544090&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hawise: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00638888&tree=LEO
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 51-52, de CLARE 5:vi.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rohese de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395228&tree=LEO
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Braderon de Monmouth: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395227&tree=LEO
  9. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 9 December 2020), memorial page for Gilbert FitzBaderon (unknown–1189), Find a Grave Memorial no. 178568999, citing Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales; Maintained by Memerizion (contributor 48072664), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178568999
  10. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Baderon de Monmouth: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395227&tree=LEO

Walter de Lacy 2nd Lord of Meath, Ireland1

M, #4629, b. circa 1172, d. 24 February 1241
FatherHugh de Lacy2 b. c 1130, d. bt 25 Jul 1185 - 1186
MotherRohese de Monmouth b. bt 1135 - 1140
ReferenceGAV22 EDV22
Last Edited20 Sep 2020
     Walter de Lacy 2nd Lord of Meath, Ireland married Margaret (Margery) de Braiose, daughter of William III de Braiose 4th Lord of Bramber and Maud/Mahaut/Mathilde de Saint-Valéry The Lady of Hay.3,4 Walter de Lacy 2nd Lord of Meath, Ireland was born circa 1172.5
Walter de Lacy 2nd Lord of Meath, Ireland died on 24 February 1241.1
     ; Weis AR 177a-7.6 He was (an unknown value) at Lord of Meath, Ireland.5 GAV-22 EDV-22 GKJ-23.

; also Lord of Weobley, Hereford, ENG.5,7

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 119, de LACY 8. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugh de Lacy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00174520&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1831] Mike Welch, "Welch email 26 July 2005 "Re: FitzWarine Question - CP amendment?"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 26 July 2005. Hereinafter cited as "Welch email 26 July 2005."
  4. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177A-27, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  5. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  6. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 177A-7, p. 153.
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 98-28, pp. 93-94.
  8. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Maison de Saint-Omer: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_Saint-Omer. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  9. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 119, de LACY 8:ii.
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 119, de LACY 8:iii.

Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge1,2

M, #4630, b. before 1100, d. 15 April 1136
FatherGilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge3,4,5 b. b 1066, d. bt 1114 - 1117
MotherAdeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont6 b. 1058, d. a 1117
ReferenceGAV23 EDV23
Last Edited12 Mar 2020
     Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge married Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester, daughter of Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin and Lucia (?) of Alkborough.7,1,8,2 Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge was born before 1100.2
Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge was buried circa 1136 at Gloucester.1


Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge died on 15 April 1136 at near avenny, Monmouthshire, Wales, England; Bartlett (2000), p. 210: "killed by the Welsh 1136."7,1,2
     He was Lord of Clare at co. Suffolk, England.9 GAV-23 EDV-23 GKJ-24.

; Leo van de Pas cites:
1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 119
2. The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: III 243 ; VI 498
3. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III 156.2

; Weis AR 246b-25.7

; founder of the Priory of Tonbridge.1

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 52, de CLARE 7. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Richard de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027603&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntac.htm#GilbertFitzRichardClaredied1117. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 11: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Eu.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 246B-25, pp. 212-213. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  8. [S1792] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004 "Descent from Richard III of Normandy to Jane Lowe (Grey of Sandiacre)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 22 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004."
  9. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 52, de CLARE 7:iii.
  11. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 52, de CLARE 7:v.
  12. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 194, de PERCY 3.
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelaide de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139945&tree=LEO
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rohese de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00333201&tree=LEO

Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin1,2,3,4,5,6

M, #4631, b. circa 1055, d. circa 27 January 1129
FatherRanulph II de Meschines (?) vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin2,7,8,9,6,10,11 b. c 1045, d. a Apr 1089
MotherMargaret (Maud) Le Goz (?) d'Avranches2,4,6,12,7,11 d. a 1098
ReferenceGAV24 EDV24
Last Edited21 Dec 2020
     Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin was born circa 1055.7 He married Lucia (?) of Alkborough, daughter of Thorold (?) of Buckingham and (?) Malet, circa 1098;
Her 3rd husband.13,14,7,11
Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin was buried circa 1129 at St. Werberg's, Chester, Cheshire, England,

; Ravilious cites:
5. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.13,2
Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin was buried circa 27 January 1129 at Chester Cathedral, Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England,

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1070, Caen, Departement du Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
     DEATH     Jan 1128 (aged 57–58), Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England
     3rd Earl of Chester. Born in Briquessart, Livry son of Ranulf de Briquessart and margaret le Goz, Husband of Lucy of Bolingbroke. Father of Ranulf de Gernon, 4th Earl of Chester.
     Family Members
     Parents
          Ranulf de Briquessart 1050–1089
          Margaret d'Avranches 1054–1136
     Spouse
          Lucy de Bolingbroke le Meschin 1079–1138
     Siblings
          Matilda Maud le Meschines 1075 – unknown
     Children
          Ranulf of Gernons 1100–1153
     BURIAL     Chester Cathedral, Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England
     Created by: Brett Williams
     Added: 8 Mar 2011
     Find a Grave Memorial 66652371.15
Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin died circa 27 January 1129; Genealogics says d. 1128/1129.13,2,7
     ; Per Ravilious email:
     "Death: ca 1129[5]
     "Burial: St. Werburg's, Chester[5]
     "Occ: viscount of the Bessin and the Avranchin; Earl of Chester
     "Earl of Chester. Also styled "Ranulf le Meschin"
     "commander of the first wing (army of Henry I) at battle of Tinchebrai, 28 Sept 1106[6]
     "held 'extensive lands in Cumberland' , which he surrendered to Henry I upon his receiving the earldom of Chester, 1121 [C. W. Hollister[6]; cf. also CP III:166[5]]
     "* note: evidently still had lands in Cumberland (Carlisle and possibly elsewhere) at date of grant by David I of Scots to Robert de Brus in Annandale [Donaldson, p. 19[7]]
     "Earl of Chester and vicomte of the Avranchin 1121-1129 (successor to cousin Richard of Avranches, d. 1120 in the White Ship)[5]
     "Spouse: Lucia of Alkborough [4635]
     "Birth: ca 1070[8]
     "Death: 1141[8],[9]
     "Father: Turold of Bucknall (-<1079)
     "Mother: NN Malet (-<1083)
     "
     "Children: Ranulf (-1153)
      Adeliza
      William (-<1136)
      Maud
Ravilious cites:
5. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
6. C. Warren Hollister, "Henry I," New Haven: Yale University Press, 2001, [English Monarchs Series].
7. Gordon Donaldson, "Scottish Historical Documents," Edinburgh: Scottish Academic Press, 1970.
8. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Tallboys," August 28, 2002, paper copy: library of John P. Ravilious, citations from Rosie Bevan : rbevan@paradise.net.nz, cites K. Keats-Rohan, 'Antecessor Noster', in Prosopon 2, and Sanders, English Baronies.
9. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960."2 GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-25.

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 365.
2. The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden, Reference: III 166.7


; This is the same person as:
"Ranulf le Meschin, 3rd Earl of Chester" at Wikipedia and as
"Ranulph le Meschin" at Wikipédia (Fr.)16,17

; Per Genealogics:
     "Ranulph was the son of Ranulph de Meschines, vicomte de Bayeux, and Margaret Le Goz d'Avranches. Ranulph became the largest landholder in Lindsey through his marriage to Lucia of Alkborough, the daughter of Turold of Bucknall, sheriff of Lincoln. They had a son and daughter who would have progeny. On 28 September 1106 at the battle of Tinchebrai against Robert Curthose, duke of Normandy, Ranulph was commander of the first wing fighting for King Henry I. He succeeded his first cousin, Richard d'Avranches, in the earldom of Chester in 1121. He held extensive lands in Cumberland, which he surrendered to Henry I upon receiving the earldom of Chester. Ranulph died in 1128 or 1129, and was succeeded by his son of the same name."7

Reference: Weis [1992:116] Line 132A-26.18

; Per Weis [1992:116]: " also vicomte of Bayeaux in Normandy, Earl of Chester in 1120, commander of the Royal Forces in Normandy in 1124."19,18 He was Lord of Cumberland.19

; Per Med Lands:
     "RANULF du Bessin "le Meschin", son of RANULF Vicomte du Bessin [Bayeux] & his wife Marguerite [Matilda] d'Avranches (-17 or 27 Jan 1129, bur Chester, Abbey of St Werburgh). Orderic Vitalis names him and his mother[58]. "…Rannulfus filius Rannulfi vicecomitis…Rannulfus vicecomes" witnessed the charter dated 24 Apr 1089 under which Robert III Duke of Normandy donated property to Bayeux cathedral[59]. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of “ecclesias de Apelby…sancti Michaelis et sancti Laurentii” by “Radulfus Meschin”[60]. The Liber Vitæ of Durham names "Rannulfus Mahald uxor eius Ricardus Rannulfus de Mesc filii eorum Lucia uxor Rann"[61]. He succeeded his father as Vicomte du Bessin [Bayeux]. “Ranulfus Meschinus Richerio Vicecomiti Karlioli” donated property for the foundation of Wetherhal priory, Cumberland, for the souls of “Domini mei Regis Willelmi…et Richard fratris mei…mea et uxoris meæ Luciæ…”, by undated charter, witnessed by “Osberto vicecomite, Waldievo filio Gospatricii comitis, et Forna Sigulfi filio et Ketello Eldredi filio et Herveio Morini filio et Eliphe de Penrith”[62]. “Ranulfus Meschines” donated property to Wetherall priory, Cumberland, by undated charter, witnessed by “uxore mea Lucia, Willielmo fratre meo…”[63]. He was appointed Vicomte d'Avranches in 1120 after the death of his first cousin Richard d'Avranches, and also obtained the grant of the county palatine of Chester thereby becoming Earl of Chester (upon which he surrendered the lordship of Carlisle). The Annales Cestrienses record in 1121 that “Ranulphus Miscinus” was made “comes”[64]. He was commander of the royal forces in Normandy in 1124[65]. The Annales Cestrienses record in 1128 the death of “Ranulphus Miscinus comes Cestrie” and the succession of “Rannulphus comes filius eius”[66]. A manuscript narrating the descent of Hugh Earl of Chester to Alice Ctss of Lincoln records the death “VI Kal Feb” of “Ranulfus de Meschines” and his burial at St Werburgh’s, Chester[67].
     "m ([1098]) as her third husband, LUCY, widow firstly of IVO Taillebois Lord of Kendal and secondly of ROGER FitzGerold, daughter of --- & his wife [--- Malet] (-1138[68]). Ingulph's Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records that William I King of England arranged the marriage of "Ivo Taillebois" and "Lucia sister of Edwin and Morcar", her dowry consisting of their land at Hoyland[69], but this parentage appears impossible from a chronological point of view. Peter of Blois's Continuation of the Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records the death of Ivo and his burial at the priory of Spalding, and the remarriage of his widow "hardly had one month elapsed after his death" with "Roger de Romar the son Gerald de Romar"[70]. A manuscript recording the foundation of Spalding monastery records that “Yvo Talboys” married "Thoroldo…hærede Lucia" who, after the death of Ivo, married (in turn) "Rogerum filium Geroldi" and "comitem Cestriæ Ranulphum"[71]. She is named as wife of Ranulf by Orderic Vitalis, who also names her first husband, but does not state her origin[72]. The Liber Vitæ of Durham names "Rannulfus Mahald uxor eius Ricardus Rannulfus de Mesc filii eorum Lucia uxor Rann"[73]. “Ranulfus Meschinus Richerio Vicecomiti Karlioli” donated property for the foundation of Wetherhal priory, Cumberland, for the souls of “…mea et uxoris meæ Luciæ…”, by undated charter[74]. “Ranulfus Meschinus” donated property to Wetherhal priory, Cumberland by undated charter, witnessed by “uxore mea Lucia et Willelmo fratre meo…”[75]. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Lucia comitissa Cestr…tra patis sui" in Lincolnshire[76]. According to a charter of Henri Duke of Normandy (later Henry II King of England) issued in favour of her son Ranulf Earl of Chester dated 1153, Ctss Lucy was the niece of Robert Malet of Eye and of Alan of Lincoln, as well as kinswoman of Thorold "the Sheriff"[77]. “Lucia cometissa” donated “manerium de Spallingis...cum quibus melius tenui et liberalius tempore Ivonis de Thallebos et Rogeri filii Geroldi et cometis Rannulfi” by charter dated to [1135][78]."
Med Lands cites:
[58] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. VI, Book XII, p. 309.
[59] Delisle (1867), Pièces justificatives, 44, p. 49.
[60] Dugdale Monasticon III, York St Mary, V, p. 548.
[61] Liber Vitæ Dunelmensis, folio 52, p. 78.
[62] Wetherhal, 1, p. 1.
[63] Dugdale Monasticon III, Wetherall Priory, Cumberland, XV, p. 584.
[64] Annales Cestrienses, p. 18.
[65] CP III 166.
[66] Annales Cestrienses, p. 18.
[67] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Priory, Lincolnshire XI, Hugonis primi Comitis Cestriæ…, p. 218.
[68] Domesday Descendants, p. 247.
[69] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 143.
[70] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 259.
[71] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Monastery, Lincolnshire, I, p. 215.
[72] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. VI, Book XII, p. 309.
[73] Liber Vitæ Dunelmensis, folio 52, p. 78.
[74] Wetherhal, 1, p. 1.
[75] Wetherhal, 3, p. 10.
[76] Pipe Roll 31 Hen I (1129/30), Lincolnshire, p. 110.
[77] Cited in CP VII Appendix J, p. 743, which discusses whether Thorold could have been her father, accepted as correct in Domesday Descendants, p. 247.
[78] Barraclough (1988), 16, p. 27.11


; Per Racines et Histoire (Avranches): "Marguerite (Maud) d’Avranches
     ép. Ranulf II, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin (fils de Ranulf, vicomte de Bessin, et d’Alix de Normandie)"


Per Racines et Histoire (Bayeux): "Ranulf dit Ralph «Le Meschin» vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin
     ép. Marguerite (Maud) d’Avranches (fille de Richard, vicomte d’Avranches, et d’Emma de Mortain.)8,20"

; per Leo van de Pas: "On 28 September 1106 at the battle of Tinchebrai, Ranulph was commander of the first wing fighting for King Henry I. He held 'extensive lands in Cumberland', which he surrendered to Henry I upon receiving the earldom of Chester."3

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 23, de BELMIS-3. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1792] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004 "Descent from Richard III of Normandy to Jane Lowe (Grey of Sandiacre)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 22 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004."
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Avranches.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 48, CHESTER 2.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO
  8. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Vicomtes d’Avranches, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Avranches.pdf
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027776&tree=LEO
  10. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/normabc.htm#RanulfBessinMMargueriteAvranches. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#RanulfChesterdied1129B
  12. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Margaret Le Goz d'Avranches: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027777&tree=LEO
  13. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 49, CHESTER 4.
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lucia of Alkborough: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027599&tree=LEO
  15. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 03 June 2020), memorial page for Ranulf Le Meschin (1070–Jan 1128), Find a Grave Memorial no. 66652371, citing Chester Cathedral, Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England ; Maintained by Brett Williams (contributor 47234529). at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/66652371/ranulf-le_meschin. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  16. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranulf_le_Meschin,_3rd_Earl_of_Chester. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  17. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Ranulph le Meschin: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranulph_le_Meschin. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  18. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 132A-26, p. 116. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  19. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  20. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes & Vicomtes de Bayeux, & Seigneurs de Bréval & d’Ivry, p. 13: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Bayeux-Ivry.pdf
  21. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00510134&tree=LEO
  22. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#AvelineChesterMRobertGrantmesnil
  23. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00510132&tree=LEO
  24. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027601&tree=LEO
  25. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), Line 132A-27, p. 128.. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  26. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#RanulfChesterdied1153

Adeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont1

F, #4632, b. 1058, d. after 1117
FatherHugues II de Creil dit «de Mouchy» (?) Seigneur de Mouchy, Comte de Clermont-en-Beauvaisis1,2,3,4,5,6,7 b. c 1030, d. a Nov 1099
MotherMarguerite de Montdidier of Roucy1,2,3,5,7,8 b. c 1045, d. c 1110
ReferenceGAV24 EDV24
Last Edited27 Nov 2020
     Adeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont was born in 1058.9 She married Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge, son of Richard de Tonbridge ftiz Gilbert de Clare and Rohese Giffard, circa 1090;
His 2nd (?) wife; her 1st husband.10,1,11,12,13,2
Adeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont died after 1117.14 She married Bouchard III/IV de Montmorency seigneur de Montmorency, Marly, Ecouen, Verneuil, Saint-Brice, Epinay et Hérouville, son of Herve de Montmorency Sire de Montmorency and Agnes (?) de Soissons, after 1117;
Her 2nd husband; his 3rd wife.15,1,3,16
     GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-24.

Reference: Genealogics cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 3:156; 653.2

; Per Med Lands:
     "ADELISA de Clermont . The Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis refers to a sister of "comes Rainaldus" as husband of "Gillebertus, filius Richardi Anglici"[37]. Guillaume of Jumièges records that “Giselbertus” married “filia comitis de Claromonte”[38]. "Hadalaidis filia Hugonis de Claromonte…uxor Gisleberti de Anglia" founded an anniversary at Saint-Leu d’Esserent, like the anniversaries of "patris sui Hugonis et matris sue Margarite", by undated charter[39]. Her second marriage into the Montmorency family is confirmed by the charter dated under which Robert Bishop of Lincoln confirms previous donations to Thorney, including one by “Adelidæ de Montemoraci” of “…terræ in Randa quas Turgisius tenuit et Toui prius dederat”[40], which clearly refers back to the earlier undated charter under which “Adeliz, uxor Gilberti filii Ricardi, et Gillebertus et Walterus et Baldewinus et Rohaisia pueri Gilberti” donated property “quod Tovi dedit…et in Randa…quas Turgisius tenebat” to Thorney Monastery[41]. The precise identity of Adelisa’s second husband has not yet been confirmed. According to Duchesne, Adelisa’s second husband was Hervé, son of Bouchard [III] Seigneur de Montmorency and his second wife, but he cites no primary source on which this statement is based[42]. As noted below, the first marriage of Mathieu [I] de Montmorency, who would have been Hervé’s older half-brother born from their father’s first marriage, is dated to [1126]. This suggests the birth of Mathieu [I] in [1095/1105]. If that estimated date range is correct, any half-brothers born from his father’s second marriage would probably have been too young to have married Adelisa. In addition, given Adelisa’s prominent family background and first marriage, it is unlikely that her second husband would have been the younger son of the seigneur de Montmorency. As Adelisa had several children by her first husband, she would have been considerably older than her second husband if he had been a younger son of Bouchard [III]. A more likely case is that Adelisa’s second husband was Bouchard [III] himself, whose age and position would have been more appropriate for the marriage. This is supported by the Liber Vitæ of Thorney abbey which lists "…Gilebt fili[us] Ricardi…Burchardus de Muntmorenci…Aaliz uxor Gilbti filii Ricardi…", suggested by Keats-Rohan as Adelisa and her two husbands[43].
     "m firstly [as his second wife,] GILBERT FitzRichard de Clare, son of RICHARD de Brionne Lord of Clare and Tonbridge [Normandy] & his wife Rohese Giffard (-1114 or 1117).
     "m secondly (after [1114/17]) [as his third wife, BOUCHARD [III] Seigneur] de Montmorency, son of [HERVE Seigneur de Montmorency & his wife Agnes --- -Jerusalem 2 Jan, after 1124)]."
Med Lands cites:
[37] Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis 15, MGH SS XIII, p. 255.
[38] Willelmi Gemmetencis Historiæ (Duchesne, 1619), Liber VIII, XXXVII, p. 312.
[39] Esserent Saint-Leu, XL, p. 44.
[40] Dugdale Monasticon II, Thorney Monastery, Cambridgeshire, XX, p. 602.
[41] Dugdale Monasticon II, Thorney Monastery, Cambridgeshire, X, p. 601.
[42] Duchesne (1624), p. 92.
[43] Thorney Abbey Liber Vitæ, fol. 2r, BL Add. MS 40,000, quoted in Keats-Rohan 'Domesday People Revisited' (May 2012), p. 11.3


Reference: Weis [1992] 246-24.17
; Per Med Lands:
     "BOUCHARD [III] de Montmorency, son of HERVE Seigneur de Montmorency & his wife Agnes --- (-Jerusalem [2 Jan], after 1124). "Herveus de Marleio et uxor mea Agnes, Burcardus…filius meus" donated the church of Marly to the abbey of Notre-Dame de Colombs en Beausse by charter dated 1087[582]. Seigneur de Montmorency, de Marly, de Feuillarde, de Saint-Brice, d'Epinay et d'Hérouville. The Liber translationis et miraculorum B. Honorinæ records that “domino de Montmorenceio Burcardo” burned the church of Conflans during his war with “comiti Matheo de Bellomonte”, dated to 21 Jun 1086[583]. "Burchardus de Montemaurinciaco" confirmed donations made to Saint-Martin des Champs, Paris by "miles…Paganus…a baptismate Walterius et uxor eius a baptismate Hodierna Comitissa nuncupata" by charter dated 1096, witnessed by “milites eius...Hugo filius Theoderici, Odo filius Odonis, Hugo de Warenna, Richardus filius Theoderici...”[584]. Suger's Vita Ludovici records a dispute between the abbot of Saint-Denis and "Burchardum...dominum Monmorenciacensem" during the course of which the future Louis VI King of France, together with "Matthæum Bellimontensem comitem et Drogonem Monciacensem", invaded “terram eiusdem Burchardi”, dated to [1101][585]. "Dnus Bucardus de Monte Morentiaco" donated road tolls at Saint-Denis to the abbey of Saint-Martin de Pontoise for the souls of "uxorisque suæ, filiorum filiarumque suarum" with the consent of "filium suum Mathæum" by charter dated [1102][586]. "Bocardus Munmorenci castelli dominus" donated property to Chartres Saint-Père, in the presence of "Matheo comite Belli Montis", by charter dated to before 1112, later confirmed by "Matheus filius Bocardi"[587]. An undated charter records a donation to Chantilly made by "Herveus de Montmaurenciaco", and the later confirmation by "dominus Burchardus supradicti Hervei filius…fratrum eius Hervei clerici, Theobaldi de Marli et Mathei" for the souls of "uxorum suarum et filiorum suorum"[588]. Orderic Vitalis records that "Burchardus de Monte Morencii, aliique prudentes" advised Louis VI King of France not to invade Normandy, dated to 1119, that "Mathæus comes de Bellomonte et Guido de Claromonte...ac Burchardus de Monte Morentii" led the invasion, that “Burchardum ac Otmundum et Albericum de Marolio“ were captured in battle at Brémule, and that “Burcardum ac Herveium de Gisortis...quia homines utriusque regis erant” were released by Henry I King of England[589]. The vassal relationship between Bouchard de Montmorency and King Henry has not been identified. A charter dated 1124 records an agreement between the prior of Saint-Martin-des-Champs and "Burchardum de Montemorenciaco" relating to earlier donations[590]. The necrology of the abbey of Notre-Dame du Val records on "XVI Kal Dec" that "Bucardus avus, Bucardus, Theobaldus de Montemorenciaco" died in Jerusalem[591], although it is not clear to which of the three deaths the date relates.
     "m firstly AGNES [de Beaumont] Dame de Conflans Sainte-Honorine, daughter of IVES [II] Comte de Beaumont-sur-Oise & his second wife Adelais ---. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not been identified. Duchesne cites no primary source which confirms the parentage of Bouchard [III]’s first wife but he highlights that Ives [II] Comte de Beaumont-sur-Oise founded the priory of Sainte-Honorine at Conflans, near Pontoise and that this property was later held by Bouchard [III] Seigneur de Montmorency[592]. The necrology of the priory of Beaumont-sur-Oise records the death "Id Jul" of "Hugo frater Methei comitis, Agnes soror eius"[593].
     "m secondly (before 1105) AGNES, daughter of RAOUL Deliés [Seigneur de Pontoise] & his wife Hazecha [Hawise] --- (-[18 Jul] ----). "Radulfus Delicatus et Hahuis loco Agnetis filiæ suæ" confirmed donations made to Saint-Martin des Champs, Paris by "Lambertus nepos Humboldi concedente uxore sua Tesza" by undated charter[594]. "Radulfus Delicatus et uxor eius Hazecha" donated property to Saint-Martin des Champs, Paris, with the consent of "eorum filiis Radulfo et Amalrico atque filiabus Agnete et Cometissa", on the day that "uxor sua Hazecha" was buried in the church, by undated charter, witnessed by "Burchardus de Montemorentii…"[595]. "Burchardus de Montemorencii et Agnes uxor eius" confirmed donations to Saint-Martin des Champs, Paris made by "Radulfus Delicatus" by undated charter[596]. [The necrology of the abbaye du Val records the death "XV Kal Aug" of "Agnes de Montemorenciaco"[597]. It is probable that this entry refers to one of the wives of Bouchard [III].]
     "[m thirdly (after [1114/17]) as her second husband, ADELISA de Clermont, widow of GILBERT FitzRichard de Clare, daughter of HUGUES Comte de Clermont-en-Beauvaisis & his wife Marguerite de Ramerupt. The Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis refers to a sister of "comes Rainaldus" as husband of "Gillebertus, filius Richardi Anglici"[598]. Guillaume of Jumièges records that “Giselbertus” married “filia comitis de Claromonte”[599]. Her second marriage into the Montmorency family is confirmed by the charter dated under which Robert Bishop of Lincoln confirms previous donations to Thorney, including one by “Adelidæ de Montemoraci” of “…terræ in Randa quas Turgisius tenuit et Toui prius dederat”[600], which clearly refers back to the earlier undated charter under which “Adeliz, uxor Gilberti filii Ricardi, et Gillebertus et Walterus et Baldewinus et Rohaisia pueri Gilberti” donated property “quod Tovi dedit…et in Randa…quas Turgisius tenebat” to Thorney Monastery[601]. The precise identity of Adelisa’s second husband has not yet been confirmed. According to Duchesne, Adelisa’s second husband was Hervé, son of Bouchard [III] Seigneur de Montmorency and his second wife, but he cites no primary source on which this statement is based[602]. As noted below, the first marriage of Mathieu [I] de Montmorency, who would have been Hervé’s older half-brother born from their father’s first marriage, is dated to [1126]. This suggests the birth of Mathieu [I] in [1095/1105]. If that estimated date range is correct, any half-brothers born from his father’s second marriage would probably have been too young to have married Adelisa. In addition, given Adelisa’s prominent family background and first marriage, it is unlikely that her second husband would have been the younger son of the seigneur de Montmorency. As Adelisa had several children by her first husband, she would have been considerably older than her second husband if he had been a younger son of Bouchard [III]. A more likely case is that Adelisa’s second husband was Bouchard [III] himself, whose age and position would have been more appropriate for the marriage. This is supported by the Liber Vitæ of Thorney abbey which lists "…Gilebt fili[us] Ricardi…Burchardus de Muntmorenci…Aaliz uxor Gilbti filii Ricardi…", suggested by Keats-Rohan as Adelisa and her two husbands[603].]
     "Bouchard [III] & his first wife had [three] children.
     "Bouchard [III] & his second wife had [one child].
     "Bouchard [III] & his [third wife] had [three] children."
Med Lands cites:
[582] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 29.
[583] Depoin, ‘Les comtes de Beaumont-sur-Oise’ (1915), III, 11, p. 60.
[584] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 30.
[585] Suger Vita Ludovici Grossi Regis II, p. 14.
[586] Pontoise Saint-Martin XLV, p. 40.
[587] Chartres Saint-Père, Codex Diplomaticus Pars Tertia ex Schedis D. Muley, 12, p. 632.
[588] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 35.
[589] Orderic Vitalis (Prévost), Vol. IV, Liber XII, XVIII, pp. 356-62.
[590] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 38.
[591] Obituaires de Sens Tome I.1, Abbaye du Val, p. 630.
[592] Duchesne (1624), p. 83, citing Chronique de l’Abbaye du Bec, 1080.
[593] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 31.
[594] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 33.
[595] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 33.
[596] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 34.
[597] Duchesne (1624), Preuves, p. 53.
[598] Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis 15, MGH SS XIII, p. 255.
[599] Willelmi Gemmetencis Historiæ (Duchesne, 1619), Liber VIII, XXXVII, p. 312.
[600] Dugdale Monasticon II, Thorney Monastery, Cambridgeshire, XX, p. 602.
[601] Dugdale Monasticon II, Thorney Monastery, Cambridgeshire, X, p. 601.
[602] Duchesne (1624), p. 92.
[603] Keats-Rohan 'Domesday People Revisited' (May 2012), p. 11, quoting Thorney Abbey Liber Vitæ, fol. 2r, BL Add. MS 40,000.16

Citations

  1. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 10. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelize de Clermont: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00106205&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parclerdam.htm#AdelineClermontMGilbertClare. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Hugues de Clermont dit de Mouchy: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164670&tree=LEO
  5. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/parclerdam.htm#HuguesClermontMMargueriteMontdidier
  6. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Seigneurs de Clermonten-Beauvaisis & de Clermont-Nesle, p. 2: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Clermont-Beauvaisis-Nesle.pdf
  7. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), Line 246-23, p. 221.. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Marguerite de Montdidier: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164671&tree=LEO
  9. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 12 March 2020), memorial page for Adeliza “De Clermont” De Breteuil De Montmorency (1058–1125), Find A Grave Memorial no. 159792062, ; Maintained by Natalie de Clare, Contes? de Markland, DGK (contributor 48673746) Body lost or destroyed, at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/159792062/adeliza-de_montmorency. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  10. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntac.htm#GilbertFitzRichardClaredied1117
  13. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 11: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Eu.pdf
  14. [S753] Jr. Aileen Lewers Langston and J. Orton Buck, compiler, Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. II (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1974 (1996 reprint)), p. 145. Hereinafter cited as Langston & Buck [1974] - Charlemagne Desc. vol II.
  15. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Morency 1 page - Montmorency family: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/morency/morency1.html
  16. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PARIS%20REGION%20NOBILITY.htm#BouchardIIIMontmorencydied1130
  17. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), Line 246-24. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  18. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO
  19. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 51-52, de CLARE 5:iv. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  20. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 51-52, de CLARE 5:viii.

Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester1,2

F, #4633
FatherRanulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin3,4,5 b. c 1055, d. c 27 Jan 1129
MotherLucia (?) of Alkborough1,6 b. c 1070, d. 1141
ReferenceGAV23 EDV23
Last Edited3 Jun 2020
     Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester married Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge, son of Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge and Adeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont.7,8,1,9 Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester married Robert de Condet (Cundy) Lord of Thorngate Castle, son of Osbert de Condet (Cundy) and Adelaide de Chesney, after 15 April 1136.10,8,1
     ; brought lands in Northampton and Lincoln as her marriage portion

captured at Abergavenny by the Welsh when her husband was slain,
15 Apr 1136; rescued by Miles of Gloucester[5]

she made gifts to the monks of St. Peters, Gloucester for the soul
of her husband:
' ... confirmation by Henry II ("Henricus rex Angliae et dux
Normanniae et Aquitanniae et comes Andegaviae...") of the
prior charter, having to do with the gift of the mill at Olney
and that at 'Taddeswell'. This confirmation reads in part,

" Praecipio quod sine dilatione et juste faciatis habere abbati
et monachis de Gloucestria' quos comes Ranulfus eis dedit
in molendinis de Olneyo et de Taddeswelle, sicut carta
testatur. " '[10]

Rosie Bevan wrote:
' There are three additional confirmation charters containing
references to Alice, sister of Ranulph, earl of Chester, and wife of
Richard fitz Gilbert in St Peter's cartulary, which confirm what you
are both saying. It's interesting to see three different versions of
her name.

Vol. I p.104
"...Ranulphus comes Cestriae dedit deo et monachis Sancti Petri
Gloucestriae quadraginta solidos annuos in molendino de Oleneye, jure
haereditario. Confirmat etiam molendinum de Taddewell quad dedit
Alicia soror ejus pro anima Ricardi filii Gilberti viri sui, tempore
Hamelini abbatis..."

vol I p.351
"...quadraginta solidos in molendino Olneye de dono Ranulfi comitis
Cestriae; et molendinum de Tadwalla quod dedit eidem ecclesiae Adeliza
soror ejusdem comitis pro anima viri Ricardi filii Gilberti..."

vol II p. 127 Henry II's confirmation
"...quadraginta solidos in molendino Olneye de dono Rannulphi comitis
Cestriae; et molendinum de Tadwella quod dedit eidem ecclesiae Attelysa
soror ejusdem comitis pro anima viri Ricardi filii Gilberti..."

Olneye is Olney, Bucks, and Tadwell is Tathwell, Lincs.

Cheers, Rosie '[11]

she m. lstly Richard de Clare,
2ndly Robert de Condet/Cundy

Spouse: Richard de Clare [1st husband]
Death: 15 Apr 1136, near Abergavenny (slain)[5]
Father: Gilbert de Clare (-ca1117)
Mother: Adeliza de Clermont

Children: Alice (->1147)
Gilbert de Clare(-1152)
Roger fitz Richard de Clare(-1173)
Rohese (->1156)
Lucy

Spouse: Robert de Condet [12459]
Death: ca 1141[12]
Father: Osbert de Condet
Mother: Adelaide de Chesney
Marr: aft 15 Apr 1136

Children: Isabel (>1136->1165.)1

; Weis 132d-2. Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester was also known as Adeliz (Alice) le Meschin.11 GAV-23 EDV-23 GKJ-24.12

Citations

  1. [S1792] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004 "Descent from Richard III of Normandy to Jane Lowe (Grey of Sandiacre)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 22 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004."
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alice|Adeliza of Chester: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027604&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO
  5. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#RanulfChesterdied1129B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lucia of Alkborough: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027599&tree=LEO
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 246B-25, pp. 212-213. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  8. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 52, de CLARE 7. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Richard de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027603&tree=LEO
  10. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 132D-27, pp. 117-118.
  11. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 49, CHESTER 4:ii.
  12. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  13. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 52, de CLARE 7:iii.
  14. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 52, de CLARE 7:v.
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Adelaide de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139945&tree=LEO
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rohese de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00333201&tree=LEO

Maud de St. Hilary

F, #4634, b. circa 1132, d. after 1173
FatherJames de St. Hilary Lord of Field Dalling, Norfolk d. b 1154
MotherAveline (?)
ReferenceGAV22 EDV22
Last Edited22 Feb 2003
     Maud de St. Hilary married Roger Fitz Richard de Clare Earl of Hertford, son of Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge and Alice/Adeliza (?) of Chester.1 Maud de St. Hilary married Willliam d'Aubigny 2nd Earl of Arundel, Earl of Sussex, son of William d'Aubigny 1st Earl of Arundel, Earl of Lincoln and Adelicia (Adeliza) (?) de Louvain, of Brabant.2 Maud de St. Hilary was born circa 1132.3
Maud de St. Hilary died after 1173.3
     ; Weis 246b-26.4 GAV-22 EDV-22 GKJ-23.3

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 53, de CLARE 9. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 149-25, p. 131. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  3. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  4. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 246b-26, p. 213.
  5. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 53, de CLARE 9:ii.
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 53, de CLARE 9:iii.

Lucia (?) of Alkborough1,2

F, #4635, b. circa 1070, d. 1141
FatherThorold (?) of Buckingham3,1,2,4,5 b. b 1049, d. a 1079
Mother(?) Malet3,1,2,6,5 d. b 1083
ReferenceGAV24 EDV24
Last Edited21 Dec 2020
     Lucia (?) of Alkborough married Ivo I Taillebois;
Her 1st husband.7,2 Lucia (?) of Alkborough was born circa 1070; Ravilious cites: 8. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Tallboys," August 28, 2002, paper copy: library of John P. Ravilious, citations from Rosie Bevan : rbevan@paradise.net.nz, cites K. Keats-Rohan, 'Antecessor Noster', in Prosopon 2, and Sanders, English Baronies. Genealogics says b. ca 1065.1,5 She married Roger Fitz Gerold circa 1095.7,2 Lucia (?) of Alkborough married Ranulph III "the Young" (?) de Meschine, 1st Earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin, son of Ranulph II de Meschines (?) vicomte de Bayeux et du Bessin and Margaret (Maud) Le Goz (?) d'Avranches, circa 1098;
Her 3rd husband.3,2,8,9
Lucia (?) of Alkborough died in 1141; Ravilious cites: 8. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Tallboys," August 28, 2002, paper copy: library
of John P. Ravilious, citations from Rosie Bevan :
rbevan@paradise.net.nz, cites K. Keats-Rohan, 'Antecessor Noster',
in Prosopon 2, and Sanders, English Baronies.
9. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and
Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.1
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "RANULF du Bessin "le Meschin", son of RANULF Vicomte du Bessin [Bayeux] & his wife Marguerite [Matilda] d'Avranches (-17 or 27 Jan 1129, bur Chester, Abbey of St Werburgh). Orderic Vitalis names him and his mother[58]. "…Rannulfus filius Rannulfi vicecomitis…Rannulfus vicecomes" witnessed the charter dated 24 Apr 1089 under which Robert III Duke of Normandy donated property to Bayeux cathedral[59]. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of “ecclesias de Apelby…sancti Michaelis et sancti Laurentii” by “Radulfus Meschin”[60]. The Liber Vitæ of Durham names "Rannulfus Mahald uxor eius Ricardus Rannulfus de Mesc filii eorum Lucia uxor Rann"[61]. He succeeded his father as Vicomte du Bessin [Bayeux]. “Ranulfus Meschinus Richerio Vicecomiti Karlioli” donated property for the foundation of Wetherhal priory, Cumberland, for the souls of “Domini mei Regis Willelmi…et Richard fratris mei…mea et uxoris meæ Luciæ…”, by undated charter, witnessed by “Osberto vicecomite, Waldievo filio Gospatricii comitis, et Forna Sigulfi filio et Ketello Eldredi filio et Herveio Morini filio et Eliphe de Penrith”[62]. “Ranulfus Meschines” donated property to Wetherall priory, Cumberland, by undated charter, witnessed by “uxore mea Lucia, Willielmo fratre meo…”[63]. He was appointed Vicomte d'Avranches in 1120 after the death of his first cousin Richard d'Avranches, and also obtained the grant of the county palatine of Chester thereby becoming Earl of Chester (upon which he surrendered the lordship of Carlisle). The Annales Cestrienses record in 1121 that “Ranulphus Miscinus” was made “comes”[64]. He was commander of the royal forces in Normandy in 1124[65]. The Annales Cestrienses record in 1128 the death of “Ranulphus Miscinus comes Cestrie” and the succession of “Rannulphus comes filius eius”[66]. A manuscript narrating the descent of Hugh Earl of Chester to Alice Ctss of Lincoln records the death “VI Kal Feb” of “Ranulfus de Meschines” and his burial at St Werburgh’s, Chester[67].
     "m ([1098]) as her third husband, LUCY, widow firstly of IVO Taillebois Lord of Kendal and secondly of ROGER FitzGerold, daughter of --- & his wife [--- Malet] (-1138[68]). Ingulph's Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records that William I King of England arranged the marriage of "Ivo Taillebois" and "Lucia sister of Edwin and Morcar", her dowry consisting of their land at Hoyland[69], but this parentage appears impossible from a chronological point of view. Peter of Blois's Continuation of the Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records the death of Ivo and his burial at the priory of Spalding, and the remarriage of his widow "hardly had one month elapsed after his death" with "Roger de Romar the son Gerald de Romar"[70]. A manuscript recording the foundation of Spalding monastery records that “Yvo Talboys” married "Thoroldo…hærede Lucia" who, after the death of Ivo, married (in turn) "Rogerum filium Geroldi" and "comitem Cestriæ Ranulphum"[71]. She is named as wife of Ranulf by Orderic Vitalis, who also names her first husband, but does not state her origin[72]. The Liber Vitæ of Durham names "Rannulfus Mahald uxor eius Ricardus Rannulfus de Mesc filii eorum Lucia uxor Rann"[73]. “Ranulfus Meschinus Richerio Vicecomiti Karlioli” donated property for the foundation of Wetherhal priory, Cumberland, for the souls of “…mea et uxoris meæ Luciæ…”, by undated charter[74]. “Ranulfus Meschinus” donated property to Wetherhal priory, Cumberland by undated charter, witnessed by “uxore mea Lucia et Willelmo fratre meo…”[75]. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Lucia comitissa Cestr…tra patis sui" in Lincolnshire[76]. According to a charter of Henri Duke of Normandy (later Henry II King of England) issued in favour of her son Ranulf Earl of Chester dated 1153, Ctss Lucy was the niece of Robert Malet of Eye and of Alan of Lincoln, as well as kinswoman of Thorold "the Sheriff"[77]. “Lucia cometissa” donated “manerium de Spallingis...cum quibus melius tenui et liberalius tempore Ivonis de Thallebos et Rogeri filii Geroldi et cometis Rannulfi” by charter dated to [1135][78]."
Med Lands cites:
[58] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. VI, Book XII, p. 309.
[59] Delisle (1867), Pièces justificatives, 44, p. 49.
[60] Dugdale Monasticon III, York St Mary, V, p. 548.
[61] Liber Vitæ Dunelmensis, folio 52, p. 78.
[62] Wetherhal, 1, p. 1.
[63] Dugdale Monasticon III, Wetherall Priory, Cumberland, XV, p. 584.
[64] Annales Cestrienses, p. 18.
[65] CP III 166.
[66] Annales Cestrienses, p. 18.
[67] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Priory, Lincolnshire XI, Hugonis primi Comitis Cestriæ…, p. 218.
[68] Domesday Descendants, p. 247.
[69] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 143.
[70] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 259.
[71] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Monastery, Lincolnshire, I, p. 215.
[72] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. VI, Book XII, p. 309.
[73] Liber Vitæ Dunelmensis, folio 52, p. 78.
[74] Wetherhal, 1, p. 1.
[75] Wetherhal, 3, p. 10.
[76] Pipe Roll 31 Hen I (1129/30), Lincolnshire, p. 110.
[77] Cited in CP VII Appendix J, p. 743, which discusses whether Thorold could have been her father, accepted as correct in Domesday Descendants, p. 247.
[78] Barraclough (1988), 16, p. 27.9


; From the Complete Peerage by GEC Volume III p.242-243 Richard FitzGilbert de Clare (d. 15 April 1136) was son and heir of Gilbert FitzRichard de Clare (d. 1114 or 1117) by his wife Adeliz da. of Hugh, Count of Clermont by Marguerite, da. of Hilduin, Count of Montdidier and Roucy.
Richard FitzGilbert married Adeliz sister of Ranulph "de Gernons" Earl of Chester. She was the daughter of Ranulph le Meshin, Earl of Chester, by his wife Lucy widow of Roger Fitz-Gerold. Ranulph was Lucy's 3rd husband her parentage was uncertain (See GEC Volume VII Appendix J pp. 743-4) however Volume XIV corrects this and says "that Lucy's father was Thorold the Sheriff and her mother da. of William Malet was shown conclusively by Dr. Keats-Rohan in Nottingham Med. Studies vol xli, 1996, pp. 22-5."

; Per Genealogics:
     "Her parents are unknown/uncertain.
     "Lucia, sometimes called Lucia of Bolingbroke, was an Anglo-Norman heiress in central England and, later in life, countess-consort of Chester. Probably descended partly from the old English earls of Mercia, she came to possess extensive lands in Lincolnshire which she passed on to her husbands and sons. She was a notable religious patron, founding or co-founding two small religious houses and endowing several with lands and churches,
     "A charter of Crowland Abbey, now thought to be spurious, described Thorold of Bucknall, perhaps the same as her probable father Thorold of Lincoln, as a brother of Godgifu (Godiva), wife of Leofric, ealdorman of Mercia. The same charter contradicted itself on the matter, proceeding to style Godgifu's son (by Leofric), Alfgar, as Thorold's _cognatus_ (cousin). Another later source, from Coventry Abbey, made Lucia the sister of Earls Edwin and Morcar Leofricsson, while two other unreliable sources, the Chronicle of Abbot Ingmund of Crowland and the Peterborough Chronicle, also make Lucia the daughter of Earl Alfgar.
     "Although there is much confusion about Lucia's ancestry in earlier writings, contemporary historians tend to believe that she was the daughter of Thorold, sheriff of Lincoln, by a daughter of William Malet (died 1071). She inherited a huge group of estates centred on Spalding in Lincolnshire, probably inherited from both the Lincoln and the Malet families. This group of estates has come to be called the 'Honour of Bolingbroke'.
     "Lucia was married to three different husbands, all of whom died in her lifetime. The first was Ives Taillebois, possibly about 1093. Ives took over her lands as husband, and seems in addition to have been granted estates and extensive authority in Westmorland and Cumberland. He died in 1094.
     "Her second marriage was to Roger FitzGerold, son of Gerold 'Miles Christi' and his wife Aubraye, with whom she had a son William de Roumare (future earl of Lincoln), who inherited some of her land. Roger died in either 1097 or 1098.
     "Sometime after this, though before 1101, Lucia was married to Ranulph de Meschines, 1st earl of Chester, vicomte de Bayeux, her last and longest marriage. He was the son of Ranulph de Meschines, vicomte de Bayeux, and Margaret Le Goz d'Avranches. In 1128 or 1129 their son Ranulph II succeeded his father to the earldom of Chester (which the elder Ranulph had acquired in 1121). He and his sister Alice/Adeliza would have progeny. She married Richard de Clare, lord of Clare and Tonbridge.
     "Upon Lucia's death about 1138, most of the Lincolnshire lands she inherited passed to her younger son William, while the rest passed to Ranulph II (forty versus twenty knights' fees). The 1130 pipe roll informs us that Lucia had paid King Henry I 500 marks after her last husband's death for the right not to have to remarry.
     "Lucia, as widowed countess, founded the convent of Stixwould in 1135, becoming in the words of one historian, 'one of the few aristocratic women of the late eleventh and twelfth centuries to achieve the role of independent lay founder'. Her religious patronage however centred on Spalding Priory, a religious house for which her own family was the primary patron. This house (a monastic cell of Crowland) was founded, or re-founded, in 1085 by Lucia and her first husband Ives Taillebois.
     "Later she was responsible for many endowments. For instance in the 1120s she and her third husband Earl Ranulph granted the priory the churches of Minting, Belchford and Scamblesby. In 1135 Lucia, now widowed for the last time, granted the priory her own manor of Spalding for the permanent use of the monks. The records indicate that she went to great effort to ensure that, after her own death, her sons would honour and uphold her gifts. Lucia died about 1138."5

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. A Genealogical History of the dormant, abeyant, forfeited and extinct peerages of the British Empire, London, 1866, Burke, Sir Bernard, Reference: 365.
2. The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H., Reference: 130.
3. Biogr. details drawn from Wikipedia.5


; Per Med Lands:
     "LUCY (-1138, bur Spalding). According to a charter of Henri Duke of Normandy (later Henry II King of England) issued in favour of her son Ranulf Earl of Chester dated 1153, Ctss Lucy was the niece of Robert [I] Malet of Eye and of Alan of Lincoln: "H. dux Norm. et comes And." granted land to "Ranulfo comiti Cestrie", including "totum honorem de Eia sicut Robertus Malet avunculus matris sue" had held and "foeudum Alani de Lincol…qui fuit avunculus matris sue", by charter dated to [Jan/Apr] 1153[854]. The precise relationships between all these individuals has not yet been ascertained. Domesday Descendants suggests that Thorold was her father[855]. Keats-Rohan expands her arguments in another article, based primarily on the presence of both Thorold and his wife as "antecessores" of Lucy and her first husband in the charter under which the couple donated Spalding monastery to the church of Saint-Nicholas, Anjou (see below)[856]. The Complete Peerage also discusses whether Thorold could have been Lucy’s father and that her mother could have been the daughter of Guillaume [I] Malet[857]. An alternative origin is suggested by Ingulph's potentially spurious Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland, which records that William I King of England arranged the marriage of "Ivo Taillebois" and "Lucia sister of Edwin and Morcar", her dowry consisting of their land at Hoyland[858]. The Genealogia Fundatoris of Coventry Monastery also names “Luciam postea comitissam” as daughter of “Algarus tertius”, adding that she married firstly “Yvoni Taylboys” by whom she was childless, secondly “Rogero filio Geroldi Romara”, thirdly “Ranulfo comiti Cestriæ”, and was buried “apud Spalding”[859]. The Chronicon Angliæ Petriburgense records "Luciæ comitissæ…filiæ Algari comitis Leicestriæ" as husband of "Ivo Tailbois comes Andegavensis, dominus Spaldingiæ et totius Hollandiæ" and "Toraldus avunculus eiusdem Luciæ"[860]. Lastly, the Annals of Peterborough name “Yvo Taylboys, comes Andegavensis, dominus Spaldynge et totius Holandiæ…maritus Luciæ, filiæ Algari comitis Leicestriæ” and "Toraldus avunculus…Luciæ" when recording his donation to Spalding Monastery in 1074[861]. This relationship with Earls Edwin and Morcar appears impossible from a chronological point of view, in particular because Lucy gave birth to children by her third husband at a time when she would have been over fifty if she has been their sister. It also seems unlikely that their sister would have been given a name derived from the Romance languages. “Ivo Taleboys” donated Spalding Monastery to the church of Saint-Nicholas Anjou, for “conjugis suæ Luciæ et antecessorum Toraldi, scilicet uxoris eius, requie” by undated charter[862]. Peter of Blois's Continuation of the Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records the death of Ivo and his burial at the priory of Spalding, and the remarriage of his widow "hardly had one month elapsed after his death" with "Roger de Romar the son Gerald de Romar"[863]. A manuscript recording the foundation of Spalding monastery records that “Yvo Talboys” married "Thoroldo…hærede Lucia" who, after the death of Ivo, married (in turn) "Rogerum filium Geroldi" and "comitem Cestriæ Ranulphum"[864]. Ingulph's Chronicle of the Abbey of Croyland records that "his wife the lady Lucia" married "Roger de Romar the son of Gerald de Romar" when "hardly had one month elapsed after the death" of her first husband "Ivo Taillebois"[865]. She is named as wife of Ranulf by Orderic Vitalis, who also names her first husband, but does not state her origin[866]. “Ranulfus Meschinus Richerio Vicecomiti Karlioli” donated property for the foundation of Wetherhal priory, Cumberland, for the souls of “…mea et uxoris meæ Luciæ…”, by undated charter[867]. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Lucia comitissa Cestr…tra patis sui" in Lincolnshire[868]. “Lucia cometissa” donated “manerium de Spallingis...cum quibus melius tenui et liberalius tempore Ivonis de Thallebos et Rogeri filii Geroldi et cometis Rannulfi” by charter dated to [1135][869].
     "m firstly IVO Taillebois [I] Lord of Kendal, son of --- (-after 1094, bur Spalding). “Ivo Talliebois” donated property to St Mary, York, for the soul of “uxoris meæ Luciæ”, by undated charter witnessed by “Lucia uxore mea, Ribaldo genero meo, Radulpho Taillebois…”[870].
     "m secondly (after 1094) ROGER FitzGerold, son of GEROLD "Miles Christi" Châtelain de Neufmarché & his wife Aubreye (-[1096/98]).
     "m thirdly (1098) RANULF "Meschin" Vicomte du Bessin, son of RANULF Vicomte du Bessin [Bayeux] & his wife Marguerite [Maud] d'Avranches (-17 or 27 Jan 1129, bur Chester, Abbey of St Werburgh). He was appointed Vicomte d'Avranches in 1120 and Earl of Chester."
Med Lands cites:
[854] CP VII Appendix J, p. 143, citing Farrer Lancs. Pipe Rolls, p. 371, and Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum, Vol. III, 180, p. 65.
[855] Domesday Descendants, p. 247.
[856] Keats-Rohan ‘Malet’, p. 7.
[857] CP VII Appendix J, pp. 743-5.
[858] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 143.
[859] Dugdale Monasticon III, Coventry Monastery III, Genealogia Fundatoris, p. 192.
[860] Giles, J. A. (ed.) (1845) Chronicon Angliæ Petriburgense (London), 1074, p. 58.
[861] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Monastery, Lincolnshire, I, p. 215.
[862] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Monastery, Lincolnshire, V, p. 216.
[863] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 259.
[864] Dugdale Monasticon III, Spalding Monastery, Lincolnshire, I, p. 215.
[865] Ingulph's Chronicle, p. 259.
[866] Orderic Vitalis (Chibnall), Vol. VI, Book XII, p. 309.
[867] Wetherhal, 1, p. 1.
[868] Pipe Roll 31 Hen I (1129/30), Lincolnshire, p. 110.
[869] Barraclough (1988), 16, p. 27.
[870] Dugdale Monasticon III, York St Mary Abbey, XX, p. 553.10
GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-25.

Family 1

Ivo I Taillebois d. bt 1094 - 1095
Children

Citations

  1. [S1792] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004 "Descent from Richard III of Normandy to Jane Lowe (Grey of Sandiacre)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 22 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004."
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lucia of Alkborough: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027599&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 49, CHESTER 4. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  4. [S1049] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:770146, Jennifer Storey (unknown location), downloaded 25 Aug 2001, Turold of Bucknall: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00450121&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Lucia of Alkborough: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027599&tree=LEO
  6. [S1049] e-mail address, 25 Aug 2001, NN Malet: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00450122&tree=LEO
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 246B-25, pp. 212-213. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027600&tree=LEO
  9. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#RanulfChesterdied1129B. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  10. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntlo.htm#LucyM3RanulfChester
  11. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/engunttz.htm#BeatrixMRibald
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/engunttz.htm#dauIvoMElthred
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Roumare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030586&tree=LEO
  14. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Avranches.pdf, p. 2. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  15. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Agnes de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00510134&tree=LEO
  16. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#AvelineChesterMRobertGrantmesnil
  17. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Meschines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00510132&tree=LEO
  18. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ranulph de Meschines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027601&tree=LEO
  19. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), Line 132A-27, p. 128.. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  20. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#RanulfChesterdied1153

Roger Fitz Richard de Clare Earl of Hertford1

M, #4636, b. circa 1116, d. 1173
FatherRichard fitz Gilbert de Clare Lord of Clare and Tonbridge2,3 b. b 1100, d. 15 Apr 1136
MotherAlice/Adeliza (?) of Chester2
ReferenceGAV22 EDV22
Last Edited28 Apr 2006
     Roger Fitz Richard de Clare Earl of Hertford married Maud de St. Hilary, daughter of James de St. Hilary Lord of Field Dalling, Norfolk and Aveline (?).1 Roger Fitz Richard de Clare Earl of Hertford was born circa 1116 at Tunbridge, co. Kent, England.4
Roger Fitz Richard de Clare Earl of Hertford died in 1173.1
     ; Weis 246b-26.5 GAV-22 EDV-22 GKJ-23.4 He was Earl of Hertford between 1152 and 1173 at England.4,6

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 53, de CLARE 9. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1792] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004 "Descent from Richard III of Normandy to Jane Lowe (Grey of Sandiacre)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 22 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 22 Oct 2004."
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Richard de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027603&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  5. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 246B-26, pp. 212-213. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  6. [S634] Robert Bartlett, The New Oxford History of England: England Under the Norman and Angevin Kings 1075-1225 (n.p.: Clarendon Press, Oxford, 2000, unknown publish date), p. 210, Figure 6: The earls of the house of Clare, 1138-1230.
  7. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 53, de CLARE 9:ii.
  8. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 53, de CLARE 9:iii.

Arnoul III 'le Vieux' (?) Comte de Guînes, châtelain de Bourbourg, Seigneur d'Ardres, de Tourcoing et d'Alost,1,2,3,4

M, #4637, b. circa 1225, d. after February 1282
FatherBaudoin III de Guines Comte de Guines, Châtelain de Bourbourg5,2,6,7 d. 1244
MotherMahaut de Fiennes8,6,9,7 b. c 1206
Last Edited16 Dec 2020
     Arnoul III 'le Vieux' (?) Comte de Guînes, châtelain de Bourbourg, Seigneur d'Ardres, de Tourcoing et d'Alost, was born circa 1225.4 He married Alix de Coucy, daughter of Enguerrand III de Coucy Seigneur de Coucy et de Marle, Cte de Roucy et de Perche and Marie de Montmirail.10,11,6,9,7,12
Arnoul III 'le Vieux' (?) Comte de Guînes, châtelain de Bourbourg, Seigneur d'Ardres, de Tourcoing et d'Alost, died after February 1282; Genealogy.EU (Coucy 1 page) says d. 1283.10,6,9,7
     EDV-23 GKJ-21.

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.) 7:81
2. Liste des comtes de Guines French Wikipedia.9


; This is the same person as:
”Arnould III, Count of Guînes” at Wikipedia and as
”Arnould III de Guînes” at Wikipédia (Fr.)13,14

Reference: Faris [1999:56].15

; Per Med Lands:
     "ARNOUL [III] de Guines (-after Feb 1282). The testament of "Baudewins cuens de Ghisnes et castelains de Broborgh", dated 1244, made gifts "par le creancement Mahaut me femme e Ernol mon fil ainnei e mon hoir"[1316]. He succeeded his father as Comte de Guines. "Arnulphus comes Guinensis" sold "iuris dominii et possessionis habebam…in villis et territoriis de Guinis, de le Montoire, de Tornehem" to Philippe III King of France, while providing for "Aelidis uxor nostra" should she survive him, by charter dated Feb 1282[1317].
     "m ALIX de Coucy, daughter of ENGUERRAND [III] Seigneur de Coucy & his third wife Marie de Montmirail (-13 Oct, 1283 or after). The Lignages de Coucy (written in 1303) records that "la seconde fille de monsieur Enguerrant, qui fist faire le chastel de Coucy…Alix" married "au conte Ernoul de Guignes"[1318]. "Arnulphus comes Guinensis" sold "iuris dominii et possessionis habebam…in villis et territoriis de Guinis, de le Montoire, de Tornehem" to Philippe III King of France, while providing for "Aelidis uxor nostra" should she survive him, by charter dated Feb 1282[1319]. The necrology of Joyenval records the death “13 Oct“ 1354 [which is too late considering the chronology of the family] of "dominæ Aelidis de Coci comitissæ de Guines” and her donation of “1000 librarum in vasis tum argenteis tum aureis”[1320]."
Med Lands cites:
[1316] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 283.
[1317] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 293.
[1318] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 301.
[1319] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 293.
[1320] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Abbaye de Joyenval, p. 303.7


; Per Genealogy.EU (Guines): "E1. Cte Arnould III de Guines, +after II.1282/1283; m.Alix de Coucy"


Per Genealogy.EU (de Coucy): "D5. Alix de Coucy, *ca 1219; m.Cte Arnould III de Guines (+1283.)16,17"

; Per Racines et Histoire (Guines): "Arnould III de Guines + après 02/1282/83 comte de Guines, Châtelain de Bourbourg (59), seigneur d’Ardres (62) (vend 02/1282 son comté au roi Philippe III «Le Hardi»)
ép. Alix de Coucy ° 1219 (fille d’Enguerrand III, seigneur de Coucy et de Marie de Montmirail)"


Per Racines et Histoire (de Coucy): "Alix de Coucy ° ~1219 dame de Coucy (1311) et de Sablonnières (77)
ép. Arnould III de Guines, chevalier, comte de Guines (62) et de Namur, seigneur d’Ardres (62), Châtelain de Bourbourg + 1283 (fils de Baudouin III et de Mahaut de Fiennes.)18,19"

; Per Med Lands:
     "ALIX de Coucy (-13 Oct, 1283 or after). The Lignages de Coucy (written in 1303) records that "la seconde fille de monsieur Enguerrant, qui fist faire le chastel de Coucy…Alix" married "au conte Ernoul de Guignes"[170]. "Arnulphus comes Guinensis" sold "iuris dominii et possessionis habebam…in villis et territoriis de Guinis, de le Montoire, de Tornehem" to Philippe III King of France, while providing for "Aelidis uxor nostra" should she survive him, by charter dated Feb 1282[171]. The necrology of Joyenval records the death “13 Oct“ 1354 [which is too late considering the chronology of the family] of "dominæ Aelidis de Coci comitissæ de Guines” and her donation of “1000 librarum in vasis tum argenteis tum aureis”[172].
     "m ARNOUL [III] Comte de Guines, son of BAUDOUIN Comte de Guines & his wife Mathilde de Fiennes (-after Feb 1282). "
Med Lands cites:
[170] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 301.
[171] Duchesne (1631), Guines, Preuves, p. 293.
[172] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Abbaye de Joyenval, p. 303.12
He was Comte de Guînes between 1244 and 1283.14

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 55, de CLARE 12:ii. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnould III de Guines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108747&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Guines page (Guines family): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/guines.html
  4. [S4742] Wikipédia - L'encyclopédie libre, online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Liste des comtes de Guînes: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_comtes_de_Gu%C3%AEnes. Hereinafter cited as Wikipédia (FR).
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Baudoin III de Guines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108745&tree=LEO
  6. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Mabilia de Guines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00121883&tree=LEO
  7. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#ArnoulIIIGuinesdied1282. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Mahaut de Fienes: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108746&tree=LEO
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Arnould III de Guines: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108747&tree=LEO
  10. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Coucy 1 page: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/coucy1.html
  11. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Alix de Coucy: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108748&tree=LEO
  12. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#AlixCoucyMArnoulIIIGuines
  13. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnould_III,_Count_of_Gu%C3%AEnes. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  14. [S4742] Wikipédia (FR), online https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Accueil_principal, Arnould III de Guînes: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnould_III_de_Gu%C3%AEnes
  15. [S673] David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists: The Descent from the Later Plantagenet Kings of England, Henry III, Edward I, and Edward III, of Emigrants from England and Wales to the North American Colonies before 1701, English Ancestry Series, Volume 1, Second Edition (Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999), p. 56: "...descendant of Charlemagne". Hereinafter cited as Faris [1999] - Plantagenet Ancestry.
  16. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, Guines Family: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/guines.html#A3
  17. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, updated 15 May 2003, de Coucy Family: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/french/coucy1.html
  18. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes de Guines, p. 5: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Guines.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  19. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, seigneurs de Coucy, Boves & Vervins, Montmirail (alias Montmirel) & Chimay, p. 6: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Coucy.pdf
  20. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Baudouin de Guines: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00295188&tree=LEO
  21. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Crawford Earls of Crawford & Balcarres Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  22. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Enguerrand V de Guines, Seigneur de Coucy: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108743&tree=LEO
  23. [S1522] Douglas Richardson, "Richardson 23 Aug email "Re: Margaret, wife of Richard de Burgh, Earl of Ulster"," e-mail message from e-mail address (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/U3B2iF_lZfQ/m/epGQsqNYtxsJ) to e-mail address, 23 Aug 2003, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/U3B2iF_lZfQ/m/epGQsqNYtxsJ. Hereinafter cited as "Richardson email 23 Aug 2003."
  24. [S1521] Douglas Richardson, "Richardson 14 Aug email "Margaret, wife of Richard de Burgh, Earl of Ulster"," e-mail message from e-mail address (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/U3B2iF_lZfQ/m/epGQsqNYtxsJ) to e-mail address, 14 Aug 2003, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/U3B2iF_lZfQ/m/epGQsqNYtxsJ. Hereinafter cited as "Richardson email 14 Aug 2003."
  25. [S1810] Adrian Channing, "Channing email 19 Sept. 2005: "Re: CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/8_Voc9cZU-M/m/YGNGDIr3fK0J) to e-mail address, 19 Sept 2005, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/8_Voc9cZU-M/m/YGNGDIr3fK0J. Hereinafter cited as "Channing email 19 Sept. 2005."
  26. [S2261] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 1st edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 2004), Montagu 6.i: p. 506. Hereinafter cited as Richardson PA.
  27. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Line 75-31, p. 82.. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.

Walter de Burgh 1st Earl of Ulster, Lord of Connaught1,2,3

M, #4638, b. circa 1230, d. 28 July 1271
FatherRichard Mór 'the Great' de Burgh Lord of Connaught b. c 1200, d. b 17 Feb 1243
MotherEgidia "Gille" de Lacy of Dublin, Lady of Connacht b. bt 1191 - 1200
ReferenceEDV23 GKJ21
Last Edited6 Nov 2020
     Walter de Burgh 1st Earl of Ulster, Lord of Connaught was born circa 1230 at Connaught, Ireland.4,1 He married Avelina Fitz John, daughter of Sir John Fitz Geoffrey and Isabel (Isabella) le Bigod, circa 1257.5,6
Walter de Burgh 1st Earl of Ulster, Lord of Connaught was buried circa 1271 at monastery, Athassel on the Suir, Tipperary, Ireland.1


Walter de Burgh 1st Earl of Ulster, Lord of Connaught died on 28 July 1271 at Galway, Ireland.7,1
     ; weis AR 177b-9.4

; "Walter de Burgh, Lord of Connaught, m. Maud, dau. and heir of Hugh de Laci, Earl of Ulster (by Emmeline, his wife, dau. and heir of Walter de Tidlesford, Lord of Bray), and became in consequence Earl of Ulster, in her right at her father's decease in 1243, and in his own right in 1264. The issue of this marriage consisted of four sons, viz.,
I. Richard, his successor.
II. Theobald, who d. a Carrickfergus on Christmas night, 1303, on his return from assisting the King in Scotland.
III. William (Sir), who performed many signal services in conjunction with his brother, the Earl.
IV. Thomas, who d. 1315."8 EDV-23 GKJ-21.

; Weis AR 75-30.9 He was Lord of Connaught.8 He was 1st Earl of Ulster (in his own right) in 1264.10,1,2,3

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 45, de BURGH 3. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Stuart Earls of Moray Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  3. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), De Burgh - Earl of Ulster, p. 161. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.
  4. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177B-9, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  5. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  6. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 177B-8, p. 153.
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 177B-8, p. 153; line 75-30, p. 75.
  8. [S1429] Notable British Families, Notable British Families CD # 367, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), De Burgh - Earl of Ulster, pp. 161-2.
  9. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 75-30, p. 75.
  10. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (Baltimore, MD, USA: Genealogical Publishine Co., Inc., unknown publish date), line 15-4, p. 15. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  11. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 3:II.

Avelina Fitz John1,2

F, #4639, b. 1238, d. circa 20 May 1274
FatherSir John Fitz Geoffrey b. c 1215, d. 23 Nov 1258
MotherIsabel (Isabella) le Bigod b. 1210
Last Edited9 Nov 2020
     Avelina Fitz John was born in 1238 at Shere, co. Surrey, England.2 She married Walter de Burgh 1st Earl of Ulster, Lord of Connaught, son of Richard Mór 'the Great' de Burgh Lord of Connaught and Egidia "Gille" de Lacy of Dublin, Lady of Connacht, circa 1257.3,4
Avelina Fitz John was buried circa 1274 at Dunmow Priory, Ireland.1


Avelina Fitz John died circa 20 May 1274.4,1,2
     ; Weis AR 75-30.

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 45, de BURGH 3. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 88, Fitz GEOFFREY 3:v.
  3. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  4. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177B-8, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  5. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 3:II.

"More" O'Brien

F, #4640, b. 1162
FatherDomnall Mór Ua Briain (?)1 d. 1194
MotherUrlachan MacMurrough of Leinster1 b. 1142
ReferenceEDV24
Last Edited10 Nov 2020
     "More" O'Brien married William de Burgh Lord of Connaught, son of Walter de Burgh and Alice Ponchard.2,3 "More" O'Brien was born in 1162 at Connacht, Ireland.4
     ; NB: In the 1980's, I inherited an anglicized Irish line from an old World Family Tree (WFT 14-1829) pedigree that I found in the early days of CDs (when I was far less demanding in my genealogical research). From WFT I had:
1 Dermot O'Brien (unk-1120), King of Muster, m. Sahl MacCarty
1.1 Turlock O'Brien (unk-1167), "of Munster", m. Raignait O'Fogurty
1.1.1 Donal Mor O'Brien (unk-1194), m. Urlachan MacMurrough
1.1.1.1 "More" O'Brien (1162-unk), m. William de Burgh (unk-1205)
I am now trying to better understand and clean up this line. In researching for the possible "truth" in this line, I have found several leads:


A. Med Lands, shows a descent under the Kings of Munster that could be this "Dermot", his son "Turlock" and grandson "Donal". The line descends from one TOIRDELBACH, son of DOMNALL of Munster & his wife --- ([1008/09]-Cenn Coradh 14 Jul 1086), as folows:
A.1. TOIRDELBACH, King of Munster, a grandson of Brian Boroma - O'Brien?
A.1.1 DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118), King of Munster - Dermot?
A.1.1.1 TOIRDELBACH (-1167), King of Munster - Turlock?
A.1.1.1.1 DOMNALL (-1194), King of Munster [sic] - Donal?
Though the female name "Mor" is common in this line, Domnall is not shown as having any offspring, including a daughter named MOR ("More") who might have married William de Burgh. Med Lands provide sources, relying heavily on the Annals of Inisfallen, the Annals of Ulster, and the Annals of Tigernach.


B. Wikipedia provides more direct evidence for the veracity of the WFT line, relying on more modern sources:
B.1 Toirdelbach Ua Briain (1009 – 14 July 1086), King of Munster, grandson of Brian Bóruma, m1 Dubchoblaig (mother of Diarmait), m2 Derbforgaill, m3 Ruaidrí na Saide Buide.
B.1.1 Diarmait Ua Briain (1060–1118), King of Munster, m Mór Ua Conchobair
B.1.1.1 Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (unk-unk), King of Munster, m1 (a dau. of the Mac Carthaigh Mór, d.s.p.), m2 Sadb MacGillapatrick
B.1.1.1.1 Domnall Mór Ua Briain (unk-1194), King of Thomond and claimant to King of Munster, m Orlacan (dau. of Diarmait Mac Murchada) and had a daughter "Mór O'Brien (Princess of Thomond, 1172-1216, who married William de Burgh)"


C. The Wikipedia entry for William de Burgy states: "William's wife was the daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, King of Thomond, whom he married in 1193.[5] A late medieval (A.D. 1397 - A.D. 1418) genealogy found in the Book of Lecan records his marriage to an unnamed daughter of Donmal Mor mac Turlough O'Brien,[6]. This Wikipedia article cites:
[5] Weis, Frederick Lewis. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700. Eighth Ed. (2008), Line 177B-8.
[6] Empey, C. A (2004). "Burgh, William de (died 1206)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 2006-11-04.



D. Weis [2008:168], calls Richard de Burgh "son of William de Burgh ... by his wife, a daughter of Donnell O'Brien, K.T."


E. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ONDB) article on William de Burgh does indeed report: "According to one Irish source de Burgh was married to a daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, which is consistent with the fact that he was frequently accompanied by his Ó Briain allies, hereditary enemies of the Mac Carthaig and the Ó Conchobhair, in his numerous campaigns in Desmond and Connacht." However, then ONDB adds this caveat: "Although he was married in or before 1193, there is no certainty about the identity of his wife. She may have been an unnamed daughter of Domnall Mór Ó Briain, but the authority for this statement rests solely on the evidence of a late medieval Gaelic genealogy."


F. Genealogics shows the following descent:
F.1 Torlogh O'Brien, King of Munster and Ireland (1009-1086) m Dubchoblaig of the Ui Cheinnselaig
F1.1 Dermod O'Brien, King of Munster (unk-1120) m Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy)
F1.1.1 Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1167)
F1.1.1.1 Donald More O'Brien, King of Thomond (unk-1194) - No daughter is shown for Donald
For this descent, Genealogics cites:
1. History of the O'Briens, London, 1949 , O'Brien, Hon. Donough. 7.
2. The Royal Line of Succession, Pitkin Pictorials , Montague Smith, Patrick W. 24.
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H. 144.
     Genealogics, however, reports on his page that William de Burgh m. "Isabel 'filia regis'" and then remarks, "It is suggested that she is the daughter of Richard 'the Lionheart'."
Genealogics cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.


G. The History of the O'Briens, by Donough O'Brien (1949) has this simplified descent from "Brian Boroimhe" to "Donald More" (d. 1194):
G.0 Brian Boroimhe (unk-1014)
G.0.1 Teige (unk-1023)
G.0.1.1 Donough (unk-1054)
G.1. Torlogh (unk-1086)
G.1.1 Dermod (unk-1120)
G.1.1.1 Torlogh (unk-1167)
G.1.1.1.1 Donald More 1194)
See the attached image of the descendancy from the frontispiece of O'Brien [1949].


Conclusion: Based on these sources, I believe that the WFT pedigree I orignally had, matches the lineage as laid out by Genealogics, Wikipedia and O'Brien [1949]. I have left the marriage of "More" to William de Burgh, given the argument in ONDB. GA Vaut.5,2,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,3,14,15

Reference: Genealogics cites: The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.16

; Per Genealogics: "It is suggested that she is the daughter of Richard 'the Lionheart'”.16 EDV-24.

; Per Med Lands:
     "WILLIAM de Burgh, son of --- & his wife Alice --- (-[1205/06]). His parentage is confirmed by the charter dated 7 Oct 1234 which records payment of a fine by his son "Richard de Burgh" for return of land in Connaught which had been confiscated from him "the strife with Hubert de Burgh Earl of Kent his uncle"[467]. Lord of Connaught. m ---. The name of William´s wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[467] Calendar of Documents Ireland, Vol. I, 2217, p. 329.17

Family

William de Burgh Lord of Connaught b. c 1160, d. bt 1205 - 1206
Child

Citations

  1. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domnall_M%C3%B3r_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  2. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I08673
  5. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Tordelbachdied1086. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  6. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdelbach Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdelbach_Ua_Briain
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Diarmait Ua Briain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Ua_Briain
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  9. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, Domnall Mór Ua Briain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain
  10. [S1953] Wikipedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, William de Burgh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Burgh
  11. [S2372] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 8th ed. w/ additions by Wm R. and Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 1992: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 2004), p. 168, Line 177B-8. Hereinafter cited as Weis [2004] "Ancestral Roots" 8th ed.
  12. [S2286] Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, online http://oxforddnb.com/index/, https://doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/4000. Hereinafter cited as ODNB - Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
  13. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, https://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO
  14. [S4776] Donough O'Brien, The History of the O'Briens from Brian Boroimhe . AD 1000 to AD 1945 (London and New York: Batsford, 1949). Hereinafter cited as O'Brien (1949) The History of the O'Briens.
  15. [S1549] "Author's comment", various, Gregory A. Vaut (e-mail address), to unknown recipient (unknown recipient address), 5 July 2020; unknown repository, unknown repository address. Hereinafter cited as "GA Vaut Comment."
  16. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Isabel 'filia regis': https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110851&tree=LEO
  17. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#WilliamBurghdied1205

Walter de Burgh

M, #4641, d. between 1179 and 1180
FatherWilliam fitz Aldhelm de Burgh1 b. 1157, d. 1198
ReferenceGAV25 EDV25
Last Edited6 Jul 2020
     Walter de Burgh married Alice Ponchard, daughter of John Ponchard, between 1145 and 1198; date is WFT estimate.2
Walter de Burgh died between 1179 and 1180; Thanks for that very good post - the details re: Hubert de Burgh's known brothers is especially appreciated.

On the subject of the de Burgh origins and the possible relationship of William and Hubert, Richard Borthwick wrote some time ago (in part),

'(3) The parents of Hubert de Burgh (d.1243) were Alice & her husband
whose christian name was probably Walter. This Walter (d.1179/80)
held Burgh near Aylsham, Norfolk. Hubert had a brother, William
(d.1205) from whom the earls of Ulster as well as the Burkes of
Limerick, Tipperary, Clanricarde and Mayo descend. It would seem
that the family can be traced back no further than Hubert's mother
and probable father. "The false trail laid by Dugdale in the
seventeenth century was still being faithfully followed in the
nineteenth." [Ellis, 183]. The DNB article on Hubert is a notorious
example. The family were modest Norfolk gentry - nothing very
grand. [Ellis, C. *Hubert de Burgh: A Study in Constancy* (Phoenix House: London, 1952), 183-202] ' [1]

The various de Burgh connections (de Boseville, William <-> Hubert,
and Richard de Burgh <-> King Edward I) all deserve further study.
Anything I might uncover will surely be passed along.

Cheers,

John



NOTES
[1] Richard Borthwick, , SGM, 6 Nov 1998.3



     GAV-25 EDV-25.

Walter de Burgh was also known as Reyner de Burgh.

Family

Alice Ponchard b. bt 1126 - 1165, d. bt 1159 - 1249
Children

Citations

  1. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I09343
  2. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  3. [S1815] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 15 Oct 2004 "Dear John ~

    Thank you for your input on the Burgh family. Much appreciated.

    Earl Hubert de Burgh's mother was Alice Pouchard. However, the name
    of his father is uncertain.

    I found the abstract of the following document pertaining to a certain
    Thomas son of Walter de Burgh in the National Archives catalogue at
    the following website:

    http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp.

    "E 40/2948: Grant by Thomas son of Walter de Burgo, to Thomas de
    Yford, for 10 marcs, of land called 'Cnoppecroft,' containing 16
    acres, in Utwellys. Witnesses:- Sir Adam de Hagebeche, Robert de
    Covenham, and others (named): [Norf.] Endorsed: "Blezwyk. de
    Utwelles." END OF QUOTE.

    If it can be proven that this Thomas de Burgh is the same person as
    Earl Hubert's brother, Thomas de Burgh, then the name of Earl Hubert's
    father would be known.

    Comments are invited.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    e-mail address wrote in message news:<e-mail address>...

    >> Friday, 15 October, 2004
    >>
    >>
    >> Dear Doug,
    >>
    >> Thanks for that very good post - the details re: Hubert de Burgh's
    >> known brothers is especially appreciated.
    >>
    >> On the subject of the de Burgh origins and the possible relationship
    >> of William and Hubert, Richard Borthwick wrote some time ago (in part),
    >>
    >> '(3) The parents of Hubert de Burgh (d.1243) were Alice & her husband
    >> whose christian name was probably Walter. This Walter (d.1179/80)
    >> held Burgh near Aylsham, Norfolk. Hubert had a brother, William
    >> (d.1205) from whom the earls of Ulster as well as the Burkes of
    >> Limerick, Tipperary, Clanricarde and Mayo descend. It would seem
    >> that the family can be traced back no further than Hubert's mother
    >> and probable father. "The false trail laid by Dugdale in the
    >> seventeenth century was still being faithfully followed in the
    >> nineteenth." [Ellis, 183]. The DNB article on Hubert is a notorious
    >> example. The family were modest Norfolk gentry - nothing very
    >> grand. [Ellis, C. *Hubert de Burgh: A Study in Constancy* (Phoenix >> House: London, 1952), 183-202] ' [1]
    >>
    >> The various de Burgh connections (de Boseville, William <-> Hubert,
    >> and Richard de Burgh <-> King Edward I) all deserve further study.
    >> Anything I might uncover will surely be passed along.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> John
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> NOTES
    >> [1] Richard Borthwick, , SGM, 6 Nov 1998



    "Dear John ~

    Thank you for your input on the Burgh family. Much appreciated.

    Earl Hubert de Burgh's mother was Alice Pouchard. However, the name
    of his father is uncertain.

    I found the abstract of the following document pertaining to a certain
    Thomas son of Walter de Burgh in the National Archives catalogue at
    the following website:

    http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp.

    "E 40/2948: Grant by Thomas son of Walter de Burgo, to Thomas de
    Yford, for 10 marcs, of land called 'Cnoppecroft,' containing 16
    acres, in Utwellys. Witnesses:- Sir Adam de Hagebeche, Robert de
    Covenham, and others (named): [Norf.] Endorsed: "Blezwyk. de
    Utwelles." END OF QUOTE.

    If it can be proven that this Thomas de Burgh is the same person as
    Earl Hubert's brother, Thomas de Burgh, then the name of Earl Hubert's
    father would be known.

    Comments are invited.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    e-mail address wrote in message news:<e-mail address>...

    >> Friday, 15 October, 2004
    >>
    >>
    >> Dear Doug,
    >>
    >> Thanks for that very good post - the details re: Hubert de Burgh's
    >> known brothers is especially appreciated.
    >>
    >> On the subject of the de Burgh origins and the possible relationship
    >> of William and Hubert, Richard Borthwick wrote some time ago (in part),
    >>
    >> '(3) The parents of Hubert de Burgh (d.1243) were Alice & her husband
    >> whose christian name was probably Walter. This Walter (d.1179/80)
    >> held Burgh near Aylsham, Norfolk. Hubert had a brother, William
    >> (d.1205) from whom the earls of Ulster as well as the Burkes of
    >> Limerick, Tipperary, Clanricarde and Mayo descend. It would seem
    >> that the family can be traced back no further than Hubert's mother
    >> and probable father. "The false trail laid by Dugdale in the
    >> seventeenth century was still being faithfully followed in the
    >> nineteenth." [Ellis, 183]. The DNB article on Hubert is a notorious
    >> example. The family were modest Norfolk gentry - nothing very
    >> grand. [Ellis, C. *Hubert de Burgh: A Study in Constancy* (Phoenix >> House: London, 1952), 183-202] ' [1]
    >>
    >> The various de Burgh connections (de Boseville, William <-> Hubert,
    >> and Richard de Burgh <-> King Edward I) all deserve further study.
    >> Anything I might uncover will surely be passed along.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> John
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> NOTES
    >> [1] Richard Borthwick, , SGM, 6 Nov 1998



    Ravilious email 15 Oct 2004 "Re: FW: de Burgh"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 15 Oct 2004. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 15 Oct 2004."
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  5. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#WilliamBurghdied1205. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.

Egidia "Gille" de Lacy of Dublin, Lady of Connacht1,2,3

F, #4642, b. between 1191 and 1200
FatherWalter de Lacy 2nd Lord of Meath, Ireland b. c 1172, d. 24 Feb 1241
MotherMargaret (Margery) de Braiose b. c 1177, d. 19 Nov 1200
ReferenceEDV23 GKJ22
Last Edited8 Nov 2020
     Egidia "Gille" de Lacy of Dublin, Lady of Connacht was born between 1191 and 1200; WFT Est.4 She married Richard Mór 'the Great' de Burgh Lord of Connaught, son of William de Burgh Lord of Connaught and "More" O'Brien, before 21 April 1225.1
     EDV-23 GKJ-22.

; Weis MCS 15-4.5

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 45, de BURGH 2. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 119, de LACY 8:v.
  3. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 06 July 2020), memorial page for Egidia de Lacy, Lady of Connacht (unknown–unknown), Find a Grave Memorial no. 150397883,; Maintained by Becky Chrisman (contributor 47367840) Unknown, who reports a unknown, at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/150397883. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  4. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  5. [S633] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr. and William R. Beall Frederick Lewis Weis, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 : The Barons Named in the Magna
    Charta, 1215 and Some of Their Descendants Who Settled in America
    During the Early Colonial Years, 5th Edition
    (Baltimore, MD, USA: Genealogical Publishine Co., Inc., unknown publish date), line 15-4, p. 15. Hereinafter cited as Weis MCS-5.
  6. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 2:v.
  7. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 2:iv.
  8. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 2:i.
  9. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 2:iii.
  10. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 45, de BURGH 2:vii.

NN von Kastl1

F, #4643
FatherHermann I (?) Count von Kastl1 d. 27 Jan 1056
Last Edited26 Nov 2020
     NN von Kastl married Ratpoto IV (?) Graf im Chiemgau, son of Dietpold/Diepold I (?) Count im oberen Trangau;
His 2nd wife.2,1,3
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "RATPOTO [IV] (-killed in battle Hohenmölsen 15 Oct 1080). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Vogt von St Emmeram. Graf von Cham. “De Comitibus Ratpotho et filii Udalricus et Ratpotho, Willihalm filius Ger ---“ witnessed the charter dated 17 Jul 1072 under which “--- patriarcha [aquiligiensis Syrus]” confirmed property to Michaelbeuren church after three lives “suam, suæque matris Pilihildæ comitisse nec non Mathildis uxoris fratris sui Friderici”[1155].
RATPOTO [IV] (-killed in battle Hohenmölsen 15 Oct 1080). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Vogt von St Emmeram. Graf von Cham. “De Comitibus Ratpotho et filii Udalricus et Ratpotho, Willihalm filius Ger ---“ witnessed the charter dated 17 Jul 1072 under which “--- patriarcha [aquiligiensis Syrus]” confirmed property to Michaelbeuren church after three lives “suam, suæque matris Pilihildæ comitisse nec non Mathildis uxoris fratris sui Friderici”[1155]. m firstly (before 1065) MATHILDE, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. The origin of Mathilde is not known. Wegener says that she was Mathilde von Lambach, daughter of Arnold [II] Graf von Lambach & his wife Reginlinde ---, but gives no basis for this speculation. m secondly ---. According to Wegener[1156], Graf Ratpoto's second wife was --- von Kastl, daughter of Hermann [I] Graf von Kastl & his wife Haziga von Diessen, but he appears to base this only on the transmission of the name Hermann to the couple's son, for which there must be other explanations (assuming that this son was Graf Ratpoto's son by his second marriage which, as mentioned below, has not yet been confirmed in the primary sources so far consulted).m firstly (before 1065) MATHILDE, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. The origin of Mathilde is not known. Wegener says that she was Mathilde von Lambach, daughter of Arnold [II] Graf von Lambach & his wife Reginlinde ---, but gives no basis for this speculation.
RATPOTO [IV] (-killed in battle Hohenmölsen 15 Oct 1080). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Vogt von St Emmeram. Graf von Cham. “De Comitibus Ratpotho et filii Udalricus et Ratpotho, Willihalm filius Ger ---“ witnessed the charter dated 17 Jul 1072 under which “--- patriarcha [aquiligiensis Syrus]” confirmed property to Michaelbeuren church after three lives “suam, suæque matris Pilihildæ comitisse nec non Mathildis uxoris fratris sui Friderici”[1155]. m firstly (before 1065) MATHILDE, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. The origin of Mathilde is not known. Wegener says that she was Mathilde von Lambach, daughter of Arnold [II] Graf von Lambach & his wife Reginlinde ---, but gives no basis for this speculation. m secondly ---. According to Wegener[1156], Graf Ratpoto's second wife was --- von Kastl, daughter of Hermann [I] Graf von Kastl & his wife Haziga von Diessen, but he appears to base this only on the transmission of the name Hermann to the couple's son, for which there must be other explanations (assuming that this son was Graf Ratpoto's son by his second marriage which, as mentioned below, has not yet been confirmed in the primary sources so far consulted).m secondly ---. According to Wegener[1156], Graf Ratpoto's second wife was --- von Kastl, daughter of Hermann [I] Graf von Kastl & his wife Haziga von Diessen, but he appears to base this only on the transmission of the name Hermann to the couple's son, for which there must be other explanations (assuming that this son was Graf Ratpoto's son by his second marriage which, as mentioned below, has not yet been confirmed in the primary sources so far consulted)."
Med Lands cites:
[1155] Hormayr (1822) Sämmtliche Werke, Band III, p. 38.
[1156] Wegener (1965/67), p. 184.3


; Per Med Lands:
     "[daughter . According to Wegener[1317], Graf Ratpoto's second wife was the daughter of Hermann [I] Graf von Kastl, but he appears to base this only on the transmission of the name Hermann to the couple's son, for which there must be other explanations (assuming that this son was Graf Ratpoto's son by his second marriage which, as mentioned below, has not yet been confirmed in the primary sources so far consulted).
     "m as his second wife, RATPOTO [IV] Graf von Cham, son of Graf DIETPOLD [I] & his wife --- (-killed in battle Hohenmölsen 15 Oct 1080). 1074.] "
Med Lands cites:
[1317] Wegener (1965/67), p. 184.1

Family

Ratpoto IV (?) Graf im Chiemgau d. 15 Oct 1080

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BAVARIAN%20NOBILITY.htm#dauHermannIKastlMRatpotoIVCham. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Ratpoto IV: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00619343&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BAVARIAN%20NOBILITY.htm#DiepoldIdied1060A

William de Burgh Lord of Connaught1

M, #4644, b. circa 1160, d. between 1205 and 1206
FatherWalter de Burgh2,3 d. bt 1179 - 1180
MotherAlice Ponchard2,3 b. bt 1126 - 1165, d. bt 1159 - 1249
ReferenceEDV24
Last Edited6 Nov 2020
     William de Burgh Lord of Connaught married "More" O'Brien, daughter of Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?) and Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster.4,2 William de Burgh Lord of Connaught was born circa 1160.2
William de Burgh Lord of Connaught died between 1205 and 1206.4,2,3
William de Burgh Lord of Connaught was buried between 1205 and 1206 at Athassel Priory, Golden, co. Tipperary, Ireland,

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1157, Ireland
     DEATH     1206 (aged 48–49), County Tipperary, Ireland
     William de Burgh (1157–1206) was the elder brother of Hubert de Burgh. William de Burgh is thought to have been the eldest of four brothers descended from Robert de Burgo, Count of Mortain and Earl of Cornwall half brother of William the Conqueror. This fact has not been proven and the debate continues as to whether Hubert and William were indeed brothers or cousins. Correspondence from William's son addressing Hubert as uncle would suggest the former.
     William arrived in Ireland in 1185 and was closely associated with Prince John as his principal commander in the conquest of Munster. He was appointed Governor of Limerick by King Henry II of England who granted him vast estates in Leinster, Munster, and Connaught.
     Sometime in the 1190s, William allied with the King of Thomond, either Domnall Mór Ua Briain, King of Thomond (died 1194) or his son Murtogh, and married one of his daughters. This alliance probably took place during the reign of Murtough, as up to the time of his death Donal had being at war with the Normans. Because of this alliance, no more wars are recorded between the two sides for the rest of the decade. According to the Annals of Inisfallen, in 1201 William and the sons of Domnall Mór led a major joint military expedition into Desmond, slaying Amlaíb Ua Donnabáin among others.
     The Annals of the Four Masters recorded his passing in 1206, and was buried at the Augustinian Priory of Athassell Abbey, Golden, County Tipperary, Munster, Ireland, which he had founded.
     William had three known children (with the spelling Connaught being used in titles of English nobility):
•Richard Mór de Burgh,1st Baron of Connaught,Lord of Connaught.
•Hubert de Burgh, Bishop of Limerick.
•Richard Óge de Burgh,(illegitimate),Sheriff of Connaught.

     Family Members
     Children
          Richard Mór de Burgh unknown–1243
     BURIAL     Athassel Priory, Golden, County Tipperary, Ireland
     Maintained by: Vicki Cooper
     Originally Created by: Jerry Ferren
     Added: 24 Feb 2012
     Find a Grave Memorial 85679572.5
     He was Lord of Connaught at Ireland.1

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald. vol 1 183.
2. The Complete Peerage, 1936 , Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden. 12-2:171-172.2


; Per Genealogics:
     “Little is known of William's origins other than that his mother was named Alice. He arrived in Ireland in 1185 and was closely associated with Prince John.
     “King Henry II of England appointed William Governor of Limerick and granted him vast estates in Leinster and Munster. William's castles at Tibberaghny (county Kilkenny), Kilsheelan, Ardpatrick and Kilfeacle were used to protect King John's northern borders of Waterford and Lismore, and his castles of Carrigogunnell and Castelconnell were used to protect Limerick. He was Seneschal of Munster (Royal Governor) from 1201 to 1203.
     “The identity of William's wife is uncertain, though she is recorded as Isabel 'filia regis' (daughter of the king). A late medieval genealogy records his marriage to an unnamed daughter of Donmasl Mor mac Turlough O'Brien, and the descent of the earls of Ulster and Clanricarde from their son Richard. A book of genealogies recorded in the 15th century by Cú Choigeriche O Cléirigh, one of the Four Masters (published in _Annalecta Hibernica_), indicates that the mother of Richard Mor de Burgh, William's son and successor, was the 'daughter of the Saxon (English) king', an illegitimate daughter of Henry II of England or perhaps Richard I of England. Such a connection would explain the use of the term consanguineus kinsman by Edward I of England to describe Richard Og de Burgh, 2nd earl of Ulster.
     “William had three known children, of whom his son Richard would have progeny.
     “Sometime in the 1190s, William allied with the king of Thomond, either Domnall Mór Ua Briain, king of Thomond (died 1194) or his son Murtogh, and married one of his daughters. This alliance probably took place during the reign of Murtogh, as up to the time of his death Donal had been at war with the Normans. At any rate no more wars are recorded between the two sides for the rest of the decade. According to the _Annals of Inisfallen,_ in 1201 William and the sons of Domnall Mór led a major joint military expedition into Desmond, slaying Amlaib Ua Donnabáin among others.
     “From 1199 to 1202 William led military campaigns in Desmond with the aid of the O Briain. Success in the west and south allowed William to conquer the kingdom of Connaught which, although he had been granted probably before 1195, he had never occupied. Cathal Crobhdearg Ua Conchobair, king of Connaught, fought a successful counterattack against the Anglo-Norman castles in Munster, including William's castle of Castleconnell. Further fighting led to loss of three castles and property, all of which was eventually retrieved with the exception of much of Connaught.
     “In 1200, 'Cathal Crobhdearg Ua Conchobair went into Munster, to the son of Mac Carthy and William de Burgh to solicit their aid.' This marked the start of William's interest in the province. King Cathal Crobderg Ua Conchobair (reigned 1190-1224) faced much opposition, mainly from within his own family, and wished to engage William's aid to help secure his position. The following year William and Ua Conchobair led an army from Limerick to Tuam and finally to Boyle. Ua Conchobair's rival, Cathal Carragh Ua Conchobair, marched at the head of his army to give them battle but was killed in a combined onslaught by William and Ua Conchobair after a week of skirmishing between the two sides.
     “William and Ua Conchobair then travelled to Iar Connaught and stayed at Cong for Easter. Here, William and the sons of Rory O'Flaherty conspired to kill Ua Conchobair but the plot was foiled, apparently by holy oaths they were made to swear by the local Coarb family. However, when William demanded payment for himself and his retinue, a battle finally broke out in which over seven hundred of his followers were said to have been killed. William, however, managed to return to Limerick.
     “In the following year, 1202, William returned and took revenge for his army that was destroyed a year earlier. He took the title 'Lord of Connaught' in 1203.
     “William died about 1206 and was interred at the Augustinian Priory at Athassell in Munster, which he had founded.
     “The _Annals of the Four Masters_ recorded his passing thus: 'William Burke plundered Connaught, as well churches as territories; but God and the saints took vengeance on him for that; for he died of a singular disease, too shameful to be described.'”.2

Reference: Weis [1992:153]: Line 177B-8.4,6 EDV-24.

; Per Med Lands:
     "WILLIAM de Burgh, son of --- & his wife Alice --- (-[1205/06]). His parentage is confirmed by the charter dated 7 Oct 1234 which records payment of a fine by his son "Richard de Burgh" for return of land in Connaught which had been confiscated from him "the strife with Hubert de Burgh Earl of Kent his uncle"[467]. Lord of Connaught. m ---. The name of William´s wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[467] Calendar of Documents Ireland, Vol. I, 2217, p. 329.3

Family

"More" O'Brien b. 1162
Child

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 44, de BURGH 1. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, William de Burgh: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110850&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#WilliamBurghdied1205. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  5. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 06 July 2020), memorial page for William de Burgh (1157–1206), Find a Grave Memorial no. 85679572, citing Athassel Priory, Golden, County Tipperary, Ireland; Maintained by Vicki Cooper (contributor 46851327). at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/85679572. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  6. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177B-8, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  7. [S1429] Unknown compiler, Notable British Families 1600s-1900s from Burke's Peerage., CD-ROM (n.p.: Broderbund Software Company, 1999), Notable British Families, Burke's "Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages" (Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, 1985 reprint of 1883 edition), De Burgh - Earl of Ulster, p. 161. Hereinafter cited as Notable British Families CD # 367.

Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster

F, #4645, b. 1142
FatherDiarmait (Dermot) mac Murchada King of Leinster2,3 b. 1100, d. 1 Jan 1171
MotherMór ingen Muirchertaig Ua Tuathail (O'Toole)1,2,3 d. 1164
ReferenceEDV25
Last Edited10 Nov 2020
     Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster married Domnall Mór Ua Briain (?), son of Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond and NN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic.4,5 Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster was born in 1142 at Leinster, Ireland.6
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "DOMNALL (-1194). King of Thomond. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “the kingship of Thomond was taken by Domnall Húa Bríáin” in 1168[1124]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Ruaidri Húa Conchobar” banished “Domnall Húa Bríáin” from Thomond into Ormond in 1175 and “gave the kingship of Thomond to the son of Murchad Húa Bríáin…his own mother´s son”, adding in a later passage that Domnall made peace with Ruaidri in 1176[1125]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that “Tadc Ua Briain´s son and Mathgamain Ua Briain were blinded by Domnall Ua Briain” in 1175[1126].
     "m URLACHAN of Leinster, daughter of DERMOT MacMurrough King of Leinster & his wife [Mor ---]."
Med Lands cites:
[1124] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 422.
[1125] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, pp. 439 and 440.
[1126] Annals of Inisfallen, 1175.3, p. 307.7
EDV-25. Urlachan MacMurrough of Leinster was also known as Orlacan Mac Murchada.8

; Per Med Lands:
     "ii) URLACHAN . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m DONOUGH [Donald] More King of Thomond, son of TADHG King of Thomond & his wife --- (-1194)."
Med Lands cites.3

Citations

  1. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#DermotLeinsterdied1171. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  2. [S2359] John P. Ravilious, "Ravilious email 25 Jan 2006 : "Ancestry of Eva of Leinster: Ua Tuathail (O'Toole)"," e-mail message from e-mail address (unknown address) to e-mail address, 25 Jan 2006. Hereinafter cited as "Ravilious email 25 Jan 2006."
  3. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#UrlachanLeinsterMDonaldThormond
  4. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Donald More O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117058&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  6. [S1217] e-mail address, online http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:1590432, Sue Cary (unknown location), downloaded updated 25 Aug 2001, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1590432&id=I08673
  7. [S2203] FMG Medieval Lands Website, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#DonoughThormonddied1194
  8. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domnall_M%C3%B3r_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  9. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Donough Cairbreach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117060&tree=LEO

Sir Roger le Strange 4th Lord Strange of Knokyn1,2

M, #4646, b. 15 August 1301, d. 29 July 1349
FatherJohn VI le Strange 2nd Lord Strange of Knockyn2,3,4 b. bt 1281 - 1282, d. c 6 Feb 1311
MotherIseult (?)2,5,4 d. a 18 May 1324
ReferenceEDV18 GKJ19
Last Edited7 Dec 2020
     Sir Roger le Strange 4th Lord Strange of Knokyn married Maud (?)2 Sir Roger le Strange 4th Lord Strange of Knokyn was born on 15 August 1301.2 He married Joan de Ingham, daughter of Sir Oliver de Ingham Knt., 1st Lord Ingham and Elizabeth La Zouche, before 25 March 1344.2
Sir Roger le Strange 4th Lord Strange of Knokyn died on 29 July 1349 at age 47.2
     ; ROGER LESTRANGE, 4th Lord (Baron) Strange (of Knokyn); b 15 Aug 1301; Kt Banneret Jan 1326/7; inherited estates of his unc EBLES LESTRANGE, 1st and last LORD (Baron) LESTRANGE of the 1326 cr; in 1347 was serving abroad in Hundred Years War; m 1st Maud - and had: 1b ROGER, 5th Lord. The 4th Lord m 2nd by 25 March 1344, as her 1st husb, Joan de Ingham, Baroness Ingham in her own right according to later doctrine (m 2nd 1350-51, as his 2nd w, Sir Miles de Stapleton and d 1360-65), dau and eventual heiress of Oliver, 1st Lord (Baron) Ingham of the 1328 cr, and d without having had further issue 29 July 1349.2
EDV-18 GKJ-19.

Family 1

Maud (?)
Child

Family 2

Joan de Ingham b. 1298, d. bt 1360 - 1365

Citations

  1. Knt.
  2. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Saint Davids Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, John Le Strange: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00140332&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#_Toc21501839. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Iseult: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00140333&tree=LEO
  6. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Arundel 1 page (The House of Arundel): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brit/arundel1.html

Sahl MacCarty1

F, #4647
FatherTeige MacCarthy2 d. 1123
ReferenceEDV27
Last Edited10 Nov 2020
     Sahl MacCarty married Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, son of Toirdelbach Ua Briain (?) King of Munster and High King of Ireland and Dubchoblaig (?) of the Ui Cheinnselaig;
Her 1st husband.3,4,1 Sahl MacCarty married Cormac Magh-tamnagh Mac Carthy Bishop King of Cashel, King of Desmond, son of Muireadach MacCarthy;
Her 2nd husband.5
     ; Per Med Lands:
     "DIARMAIT (-Corcach Mór Muman 1118). The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain brought a fleet to Wales and took great spoil therefrom” in 1080[1083]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that, on the death of Toirdelbach in 1086, Munster "was divided in three between [his] three sons…Tadc, Muirchertach and Diarmait”, but adding that Diarmait “was banished from Mumu” in 1086 after the death of his brother Tadhg, when his brother Muirchertach “took the kingship”[1084]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain was banished to Ulaid” in 1092[1085]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmait Húa Bríáin” seized the kingdom of Munster in 1114 when “Muirchertach Húa Bríáin” fell ill[1086]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain took the kingship of Mumu and banished Muirchertach from Luimnech to Cell Da Lua” in 1114, but in a later passage records that “Muirchertach came to Luimnech and Diarmait was imprisoned by him” in 1115[1087]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain turned against Muirchertach Ua Briain” in 1116 and that “Muirchertach Ua Briain went to Les Mór and assumed the pilgrim´s staff”[1088]. King of Munster 1116. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmuit Húa Bríáin king of the southern half of Ireland [Lethe Mogha]” died in 1118[1089]. The Annals of Inisfallen record that "Diarmait Ua Briain died in Corcach Mór Muman” in 1118[1090].
     "m ---. The name of Diarmait´s wife is not known."
Med Lands cites:
[1083] Annals of Inisfallen, 1080.4, p. 237.
[1084] Annals of Inisfallen, 1086.5 and 1086.7, p. 239.
[1085] Annals of Inisfallen, 1092.3, p. 243.
[1086] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 337.
[1087] Annals of Inisfallen, 1114.4 and 1115.2, p. 273.
[1088] Annals of Inisfallen, 1116.3 and 1116.5, p. 275.
[1089] Annals of Tigernach II, Continuation, p. 342.
[1090] Annals of Inisfallen, 1118.2, p. 277.6
EDV-27.

Reference: Genealogics cites:
1. Wikipedia Website. her 1st husband.
2. The chieftans of Pobul-I-Callaghan, Cork (Journal of Cork Historical and Archaoelogical Society) 1897, v3 #30, Gillman, Herbert Webb. 206.1
Sahl MacCarty was also known as Saiv/Sadhbh MacCarthy.1 Sahl MacCarty was also known as NN Mac Carthaigh Mór.7

Citations

  1. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Saiv|Sadhbh (MacCarthy): https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00722000&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Teige (MacCarthy): https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00721999&tree=LEO
  3. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  4. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Dermod O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117056&tree=LEO
  5. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Cormac Magh-tamnagh MacCarthy: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00721996&tree=LEO
  6. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#Muirchertachdied1119. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  7. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  8. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Torlogh|Toirdhealbhach O'Brien: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00117057&tree=LEO

NN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic1

F, #4648
ReferenceEDV26
Last Edited10 Nov 2020
     NN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic married Toirdhealbhach mac Diarmada Ua Briain (?) King of Munster, King of Thomond, son of Diarmait Ua Briain (?) King of Munster and Sahl MacCarty;
His 2nd wife.2,1
     EDV-26. NN inghen Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic was also known as Raignait O'Fogurty.2

Citations

  1. [S1953] Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia, online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toirdhealbhach_mac_Diarmada_Ua_Briain. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
  2. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).

Rohese de Clare1,2

F, #4649, b. 1110
FatherGilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge3,4,5 b. b 1066, d. bt 1114 - 1117
MotherAdeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont3 b. 1058, d. a 1117
ReferenceGAV24 EDV24
Last Edited9 Dec 2020
     Rohese de Clare married Baderon de Monmouth, son of William Fitz Baderon and Hawise (?).1,2,6,7 Rohese de Clare was born in 1110.8
Rohese de Clare was buried at Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales, England (now),

; From Find A Grave:
     BIRTH     1110, England
     DEATH     unknown, Wales
     Rohese de Clare (bef. 1166) was a member of the wealthy and powerful de Clare family and a strong patron of Monmouth Priory. Rohese was a daughter of Gilbert Fitz Richard de Clare and Adeliza de Clermont. In c.?1130, she married Baderon fitzWilliam of Monmouth. Her father being already dead by that date, the wedding was celebrated at Striguil Castle (Chepstow), stronghold of her brother Gilbert fitzGilbert de Clare, who gave the bride away.
     Family Members
     Parents
          Gilbert De Clare 1055–1117
          Adeliza De Breteuil De Montmorency 1058–1125
     Spouse
          Baderon FitzWilliam 1100–1176
     Siblings
          Richard FitzGilbert de Clare 1090–1136
          Adeliza de Clare de Vere 1091–1163
          Gilbert De Clare 1100–1148
     Children
          Gilbert FitzBaderon unknown–1189
          Rohese De Monmouth De Lacy 1145–1180
     BURIAL     Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
     Created by: Memerizion
     Added: 19 Apr 2017
     Find a Grave Memorial 178569141.8
     ; Leo van de Pas cites: Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III/1 156.2 GAV-24 EDV-24 GKJ-25.9

; weis AR 177a-7.10

Family

Baderon de Monmouth b. c 1100, d. 1176
Child

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), p. 51-52, de CLARE 5:vi. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Rohese de Clare: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395228&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO
  4. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntac.htm#GilbertFitzRichardClaredied1117. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  5. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 11: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Eu.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  6. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 9 December 2020), memorial page for Baderon FitzWilliam (1100–1176), Find a Grave Memorial no. 178570082, citing Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales; Maintained by Memerizion (contributor 48072664), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178570082. Hereinafter cited as Find a Grave.
  7. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Braderon de Monmouth: https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00395227&tree=LEO
  8. [S2374] Find a Grave, online http://www.findagrave.com/, Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com: accessed 9 December 2020), memorial page for Rohese de Clare (1110–unknown), Find a Grave Memorial no. 178569141, citing Monmouth Priory, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales; Maintained by Memerizion (contributor 48072664), at: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178569141
  9. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  10. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 177A-7, p. 153. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.

Gilbert Fitz Gilbert de Clare 1st Earl of Pembroke1

M, #4650, b. circa 1100, d. between 6 January 1147 and 1148
FatherGilbert fitz Richard de Clare 2nd Earl of Clare, Lord of Tunbridge2,3,4 b. b 1066, d. bt 1114 - 1117
MotherAdeliza (Adelaide, Alice) de Clermont2 b. 1058, d. a 1117
ReferenceGAV24 EDV23
Last Edited6 Jul 2020
     Gilbert Fitz Gilbert de Clare 1st Earl of Pembroke married Isabel (Elizabeth) de Beaumont, daughter of Sir Robert de Beaumont 1st Earl of Leicester, Comte de Beaument et Meulan Meulan and Isabelle/Elisabeth de Vermandois Countess of Leicester; her 1st husband.5,6 Gilbert Fitz Gilbert de Clare 1st Earl of Pembroke was born circa 1100.1,6
Gilbert Fitz Gilbert de Clare 1st Earl of Pembroke died between 6 January 1147 and 1148.7,1
     ; Weis 184-4.8 GAV-24 EDV-23 GKJ-24.



; Those who were created Earls of Pembroke before the rise of the Herberts from the 15th century on were predominantly close relatives of the reigning monarch. This was not so in the first and historically most important case, however. Gilbert Fitz Gilbert or de Clare was made Earl of Pembroke in 1138 by KING STEPHEN, his elder brother Richard Fitz Gilbert or de Clare being father of the Alice/Adelaide who married William de Percy (see NORTHUMBERLAND, D). In the period of unrest and indecisive civil war known as the Anarchy, when followers of STEPHEN, HENRY I's nephew, struggled with the EMPRESS MAUD, HENRY I's daughter, Gilbert Earl of Pembroke sided with each one. He already held Chepstow, on the Welsh-English borders. In 1144 he pushed far into South Wales and established himself at Carmarthen.11 He was Earl of Pembroke between 1138 and 1148.12

Citations

  1. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans: Many of the English Ancestral Lines Prior to 1300 of those Colonial Americans with known Royal Ancestry but Fully Developed in all Possible Lines (PO Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333: Carl Boyer 3rd, 2001), pp. 52-53, de CLARE 8. Hereinafter cited as Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors.
  2. [S1490] Genealogics Website (oiginated by Leo van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes), online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Gilbert FitzRichard de Tonbridge: http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030540&tree=LEO. Hereinafter cited as Genealogics Website.
  3. [S2203] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG): MEDIEVAL LANDS - A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, online http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/index.htm, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntac.htm#GilbertFitzRichardClaredied1117. Hereinafter cited as FMG Medieval Lands Website.
  4. [S2280] Racines et Histoire, online http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/LGN-frameset.html, Comtes d'Eu, p. 11: http://racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Eu.pdf. Hereinafter cited as Racines et Histoire.
  5. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 18, de BEAUMONT-6:vi.
  6. [S1438] Miroslav Marek, online http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html, unknown author (e-mail address), downloaded updated 15 May 2003, Beaumont 5 page (The Sires de Beaumont-le-Roger): http://genealogy.euweb.cz/beaumont/beaumont5.html
  7. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700: The Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Some of Their Descendants, 7th edition (n.p.: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
    Baltimore, 1992, unknown publish date), line 66-25, p. 69. Hereinafter cited as Weis AR-7.
  8. [S632] Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis AR-7, line 184-4, p. 157.
  9. [S599] Inc. Brøderbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 28 Oct 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 14, Ed. 1, family # 1829 (n.p.: Release date: October 20, 1997, unknown publish date).
  10. [S616] Inc. Br²derbund Software, GEDCOM file imported on 26 Dec 1999 from World Family Tree Vol. 18, Ed. 1, Family #18-0770 (n.p.: Release date: March 27, 1998, unknown publish date).
  11. [S1396] Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site, online http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp, Pembroke and Montgomery Family Page. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage & Gentry Web Site.
  12. [S634] Robert Bartlett, The New Oxford History of England: England Under the Norman and Angevin Kings 1075-1225 (n.p.: Clarendon Press, Oxford, 2000, unknown publish date), p. 210, Figure 6: The earls of the house of Clare, 1138-1230.
  13. [S757] Compiled by Carl Boyer 3rd, Boyer [2001] Med English Ancestors, p. 53, de CLARE 8:ii.
  14. [S1490] Genealogics Website, online http://www.genealogics.org/index.php, Richard FitzGilbert de Clare: https://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00030538&tree=LEO